Should I jump ship

[TheBGUy]

Hello,

I'm currently an FO at Encore, and the new contract and reality that I won't flow for potentially 14 years has forced me to think about my future. I was wondering how many hours does the flair FO fly in a month, as well as how overtime opportunity looks. I'm currently at 1200 and flying 30 hours a month if I'm lucky.... Sticking it out at Encore seems like sacrificing valuable years I could be building seniorty elsewhere.

[Chaxterium]

Did you mean to post this in the Flair sub?

[a2btrail]

YES. There is no long term benefit. I recommend AC or Porter.

[fish4life]

YES. There is no long term benefit. I recommend AC or Porter.

With that experience they have little to no chance at AC

[flying4dollars]

Did you mean to post this in the Flair sub?

Encore FO looking to join Flair? Seems like an appropriate place to post this

[the_new_guy]

Hello,

I'm currently an FO at Encore, and the new contract and reality that I won't flow for potentially 14 years has forced me to think about my future. I was wondering how many hours does the flair FO fly in a month, as well as how overtime opportunity looks. I'm currently at 1200 and flying 30 hours a month if I'm lucky.... Sticking it out at Encore seems like sacrificing valuable years I could be building seniorty elsewhere.

Hi BGUy,

There's a lot to consider for someone in your position. Let's start with your questions. How many hours you fly as FO at Flair varies depending what base you're in, but generally 80-92. Eastern bases see higher numbers due to attrition therefor pilots tend to fly more on average, especially FOs. How the overtime now works at Flair is a little complex with this new LOU, but the short of it is there will most likely be some overtime available for FOs, however it'll be straight time instead of double if you pick up anything on a day off. The company reserves the right to offer premium on open time if they're stuck with it, but I wouldn't count on it for the average month. You will be paid 1.5x your normal rate for anything above 88 hours a month IF YOU WERE ROSTERED THAT WAY FROM THE START. Meaning if you pick up 20 hours on top of your credits originally scheduled for the month, those 20 hours will be paid straight time. If you're scheduled 92 hours, 4 hours will be paid 1.5x. If you're scheduled 85 hours and pick up 10 for a total of 95, it's all at straight time.

Basically, don't count on premium for overtime to budget your next move.

I will add this: I actually like Flair. It's a nice place to be but it's not for everyone. Company management can't seem to go a month without some hiccups. If stability is what you want, consider something else. If you can do without for a while, then Flair can be a good place. Only time will tell what will happen.

Also, I don't know where you live but if joining Flair means commuting, I would urge you to consider something else. You can commute and work for Flair, but with unlimited (CARs max) months coming in force soon four months of the year, 18 days a month max instead of what is now industry standard 16 (AC and Westjet), your schedule can be very hard to commute on. On the other hand, if you're home-based, Flair is alright.

Take your time to consider all your options. If you're out west, Porter opens up shop in YVR in September. Could be a thing to keep in mind. AC is not going anywhere if you're looking for stability. Else, Flair would definitely like to have you.

Cheers

[ready]

Yes, if you can get hired at Flair with 1200 hours I would definitely give it some serious consideration. If you’re looking to build jet time and make money Flair is a great spot. We are still planning to get 8-10 new airplanes next year I think so you might find yourself in a pretty good spot a year from now.

Don’t forget the job market is not going to stay like this forever. Getting a 737 job with 1200 hours is pretty unlikely to continue.

[JBI]

Never hurts to apply. If you're offered a position you can still say "No thanks"

Things to consider in no particular order:

-Were you hired at Encore before Dec 5, 2022 (i.e. do you have reserved seniority at WJ?)
-Do you live in YYC and what are the chances of getting a YYC Flair base? (I think the chances are quite high these days, but not 100% sure)
-How close to upgrading at Encore?
-Where would you rather get "stuck" if the next slow down hit: right seat on a Flair 737 or left seat on an Encore Q?
-What are you risk tolerances for needing to find a new job if something happened to the current one? Both Encore and Flair have risk, in my opinion, but for very different reasons.

Had a buddy that started at Flair with slightly more time than you. Overall he really enjoyed it. Decided to go to AC for stability, but does miss a lot about Flair. As much as I did enjoy my time at Encore, if I were an FO hired after Dec 2022, I'd be looking at my options regardless of the outcome of this TA. Pretty clear the WJ Encore Management has painted themselves into a corner with regard to Flow - the amount of Captains that they can actually flow while operating a minimum number of block hours is significantly less than the number of Captains that need to flow in order to keep pilots on property.

The previous times the Company has 'paused' flow it resulted in more pilots leaving to the competition than they would have lost to WJ had flow continued.

[yycinformer]

Yes, if you can get hired at Flair with 1200 hours I would definitely give it some serious consideration. If you’re looking to build jet time and make money Flair is a great spot. We are still planning to get 8-10 new airplanes next year I think so you might find yourself in a pretty good spot a year from now.

Don’t forget the job market is not going to stay like this forever. Getting a 737 job with 1200 hours is pretty unlikely to continue.

Just a note for the OP, I had multiple 1,000, single-engine, no previous 705-time guys in my class. Go ahead and apply.