Reasons Canadian Pilots think they’re less?

[HFNav]

75% of poll responders voted the AC pilots won’t have pay above Envoy FO increased rates in the next contract.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=204944

What are the reasons for voting this way?
What prevents AC pilots?

In other posts, Encore pilots expect contract salaries less than WJ. When a first year WJ pilot flies for $40k less than a first year US regional pilot.

Are Encore pilots negotiating less pay than WJ has?

Jazz is paying more than AC first year pay.

Where’s the rule of ALPA regional pilots must negotiate pay lower than the main carrier?

[cdnavater]

75% of poll responders voted the AC pilots won’t have pay above Envoy FO increased rates in the next contract.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=204944

What are the reasons for voting this way?
What prevents AC pilots?

In other posts, Encore pilots expect contract salaries less than WJ. When a first year WJ pilot flies for $40k less than a first year US regional pilot.

Are Encore pilots negotiating less pay than WJ has?

Jazz is paying more than AC first year pay.

Where’s the rule of ALPA regional pilots must negotiate pay lower than the main carrier?

You must be new to Canada, kidding but not really kidding but it’s called beaten dog syndrome.
However, in the discussion on Encore pilots expectations versus what a WJ FO is paid, the reality is Encore will NOT pay more for their pilots than WJ mainline pilots, otherwise there is no cost advantage and you might as well just close it down.
If Encore pilots demand more pay than current mainline pay, don’t get me wrong, they can demand it and even strike for it but very little of the flying they do is flying that wasn’t done before on a 37, so they could easily price themselves out of a job.
Jazz pilots had an agreement with Jazz that had a higher pay then what we actually ended up with, it currently is more to start than AC. I suspect the reason AC(who pays the bills) turned down the agreement was it would weaken their position in bargaining with the AC Pilots if our starting pay was much higher.
Things are definitely changing in Canada but reality is, a regional working for or owned by the mainline will never start higher than their mainline counterparts!

[Canadaflyer46]

As long as regionals can put 250 hour pilots in the right seat then pay is never going to increase as we've seen in the US. Even Sunwing is hiring many people without even an ATPL.

[cdnavater]

As long as regionals can put 250 hour pilots in the right seat then pay is never going to increase as we've seen in the US. Even Sunwing is hiring many people without even an ATPL.

Understood, however as some airlines(Jazz) are finding out replacing outgoing Captains with 250 hr pilots is not sustainable for continued operations, we don’t have very many pilots who are upgradable and the last few months several upgrade candidates have left either during or before the training began.
It’s a shortage of qualified Captains that will drive the wage increases at the regional level.

[HFNav]

You must be new to Canada, kidding but not really kidding but it’s called beaten dog syndrome.

Do you mean that AC and Canadian pilots have been abused over their careers, & don’t think they have the ability to stop this abuse or achieve gains?
They gave up?

However, in the discussion on Encore pilots expectations versus what a WJ FO is paid, the reality is Encore will NOT pay more for their pilots than WJ mainline pilots, otherwise there is no cost advantage and you might as well just close it down.
If Encore pilots demand more pay than current mainline pay, don’t get me wrong, they can demand it and even strike for it but very little of the flying they do is flying that wasn’t done before on a 37, so they could easily price themselves out of a job.

WJ won’t be flying 737 from YVR to YCD.

Or AC flying YYZ to North Bay.

Double pilot pay on a 1 hour Q flight - additional $200, less than cost of one ticket.

Not convinced regional pilots can’t have higher wages over the main carrier

PC-12 captains starting at $120k for 9 seats, well over the Encore and Jazz rates for 78 seats.
PC-12 company still in business.

[Tbayer2021]

Unfortunately this isn't only a problem with pilots when comparing Canada vs US. Every single white collar/high earning position in Canada, commands a considerably higher salary in the US. Engineers, Software, medical, you name it. Friends in those positions have shown me the difference and its just as bad as ours with our American counterparts, if not worse! It seems to be a problem with Canadians in general, not just Canadian pilots.

Years ago I had a conversation with an acquaintance that just couldn't understand why we were demanding so much more than the company was offering, during our contract negotiations. She was blown away with how much we were demanding, considering how much we already got paid and in relation to how much most people made.

What's more surprising was that she was a highly educated individual making in the neighbourhood of 60k, in a profession that would easily make her closer to 200K, if not over in the US.

Beaten dog syndrome indeed!

[Tbayer2021]

75% of poll responders voted the AC pilots won’t have pay above Envoy FO increased rates in the next contract.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=204944

What are the reasons for voting this way?
What prevents AC pilots?

In other posts, Encore pilots expect contract salaries less than WJ. When a first year WJ pilot flies for $40k less than a first year US regional pilot.

Are Encore pilots negotiating less pay than WJ has?

Jazz is paying more than AC first year pay.

Where’s the rule of ALPA regional pilots must negotiate pay lower than the main carrier?

However, in the discussion on Encore pilots expectations versus what a WJ FO is paid, the reality is Encore will NOT pay more for their pilots than WJ mainline pilots, otherwise there is no cost advantage and you might as well just close it down.
If Encore pilots demand more pay than current mainline pay, don’t get me wrong, they can demand it and even strike for it but very little of the flying they do is flying that wasn’t done before on a 37, so they could easily price themselves out of a job.

I don't buy this argument either. It revolves around pilot compensation being a make or break for the operation. It just simply isn't so.

[cdnavater]

75% of poll responders voted the AC pilots won’t have pay above Envoy FO increased rates in the next contract.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=204944

What are the reasons for voting this way?
What prevents AC pilots?

In other posts, Encore pilots expect contract salaries less than WJ. When a first year WJ pilot flies for $40k less than a first year US regional pilot.

Are Encore pilots negotiating less pay than WJ has?

Jazz is paying more than AC first year pay.

Where’s the rule of ALPA regional pilots must negotiate pay lower than the main carrier?

However, in the discussion on Encore pilots expectations versus what a WJ FO is paid, the reality is Encore will NOT pay more for their pilots than WJ mainline pilots, otherwise there is no cost advantage and you might as well just close it down.
If Encore pilots demand more pay than current mainline pay, don’t get me wrong, they can demand it and even strike for it but very little of the flying they do is flying that wasn’t done before on a 37, so they could easily price themselves out of a job.

I don't buy this argument either. It revolves around pilot compensation being a make or break for the operation. It just simply isn't so.

In the simplest of terms, if pilot A makes 200/hours and flies around 78 people and pilot B makes 200/hour but flies around 200 people the bean counters will figure it’s cheaper to run around less frequently with 200 seats than more often with 78 seats.
There will always be some airports that require the smaller aircraft but if you think they will pay the same for regional pilots as mainline pilots, I don’t know what to tell you.
In order for regional pilots to make more is simple, mainline needs to make more unless of course the company simply can’t staff the regional and figures they NEED it, but that hasn’t made its way North yet.

[Tbayer2021]

However, in the discussion on Encore pilots expectations versus what a WJ FO is paid, the reality is Encore will NOT pay more for their pilots than WJ mainline pilots, otherwise there is no cost advantage and you might as well just close it down.
If Encore pilots demand more pay than current mainline pay, don’t get me wrong, they can demand it and even strike for it but very little of the flying they do is flying that wasn’t done before on a 37, so they could easily price themselves out of a job.

I don't buy this argument either. It revolves around pilot compensation being a make or break for the operation. It just simply isn't so.

In the simplest of terms, if pilot A makes 200/hours and flies around 78 people and pilot B makes 200/hour but flies around 200 people the bean counters will figure it’s cheaper to run around less frequently with 200 seats than more often with 78 seats.
There will always be some airports that require the smaller aircraft but if you think they will pay the same for regional pilots as mainline pilots, I don’t know what to tell you.
In order for regional pilots to make more is simple, mainline needs to make more unless of course the company simply can’t staff the regional and figures they NEED it, but that hasn’t made its way North yet.

Again, I find this argument way too reductive and assumes pilot compensation is that much of a direction setter. There are a myriad of factors that dictate frequency and gauge. If it simply came down to what the two guys upfront were making, every destination with high daily frequency would be served once a day by a 747.

And again to your point of the beaten dog mentality. We're faced with such situation and your take is, we can't leapfrog them because they're mainline and that will never happen. Instead of we must overtake them for our own sake, and that will in-turn, help them further significant gains.

[cdnavater]

I don't buy this argument either. It revolves around pilot compensation being a make or break for the operation. It just simply isn't so.

In the simplest of terms, if pilot A makes 200/hours and flies around 78 people and pilot B makes 200/hour but flies around 200 people the bean counters will figure it’s cheaper to run around less frequently with 200 seats than more often with 78 seats.
There will always be some airports that require the smaller aircraft but if you think they will pay the same for regional pilots as mainline pilots, I don’t know what to tell you.
In order for regional pilots to make more is simple, mainline needs to make more unless of course the company simply can’t staff the regional and figures they NEED it, but that hasn’t made its way North yet.

Again, I find this argument way too reductive and assumes pilot compensation is that much of a direction setter. There are a myriad of factors that dictate frequency and gauge. If it simply came down to what the two guys upfront were making, every destination with high daily frequency would be served once a day by a 747.

And again to your point of the beaten dog mentality. We're faced with such situation and your take is, we can't leapfrog them because they're mainline and that will never happen. Instead of we must overtake them for our own sake, and that will in-turn, help them further significant gains.

No, believe me, in a perfect world I wouldn’t care how much they pay a 737 Captain or 330 Captain, but I live in the real world where ULCC start up pay the pilots less than the same job elsewhere, why do they do this if pilot cost is not relevant?
Every single cost is relevant and I’ve been the recipient of demanding more pay to be followed up with two airlines doing my job cheaper, one was a complete start up with seed money from the very company we demanded more from, the other was a long time lower tier provider who was suddenly flying RJs around and if not for our union would have been operating CRJ 900s for much less.
If our wages are so insignificant, why has airline management spent sooooooo much time driving them down?
The US regional pilots wages were less than half of what I was making even as soon as 10 years ago, the only thing that had that climbing down there was an inability to fill the seats.
Are regional pilots in the US making more than their mainline counterparts, I can say with almost certainty, no and if they ever do, the work will be shifted to where it is cheaper!

[Tbayer2021]

In the simplest of terms, if pilot A makes 200/hours and flies around 78 people and pilot B makes 200/hour but flies around 200 people the bean counters will figure it’s cheaper to run around less frequently with 200 seats than more often with 78 seats.
There will always be some airports that require the smaller aircraft but if you think they will pay the same for regional pilots as mainline pilots, I don’t know what to tell you.
In order for regional pilots to make more is simple, mainline needs to make more unless of course the company simply can’t staff the regional and figures they NEED it, but that hasn’t made its way North yet.

Again, I find this argument way too reductive and assumes pilot compensation is that much of a direction setter. There are a myriad of factors that dictate frequency and gauge. If it simply came down to what the two guys upfront were making, every destination with high daily frequency would be served once a day by a 747.

And again to your point of the beaten dog mentality. We're faced with such situation and your take is, we can't leapfrog them because they're mainline and that will never happen. Instead of we must overtake them for our own sake, and that will in-turn, help them further significant gains.

No, believe me, in a perfect world I wouldn’t care how much they pay a 737 Captain or 330 Captain, but I live in the real world where ULCC start up pay the pilots less than the same job elsewhere, why do they do this if pilot cost is not relevant?
Every single cost is relevant and I’ve been the recipient of demanding more pay to be followed up with two airlines doing my job cheaper, one was a complete start up with seed money from the very company we demanded more from, the other was a long time lower tier provider who was suddenly flying RJs around and if not for our union would have been operating CRJ 900s for much less.
If our wages are so insignificant, why has airline management spent sooooooo much time driving them down?
The US regional pilots wages were less than half of what I was making even as soon as 10 years ago, the only thing that had that climbing down there was an inability to fill the seats.
Are regional pilots in the US making more than their mainline counterparts, I can say with almost certainty, no and if they ever do, the work will be shifted to where it is cheaper!

These same companies that were paying FO's 15-20K and captains 40K down south, are now paying ten times that. And now its painfully obvious that all those years they spent telling their pilots that the corp simply cannot afford to pay them more for XYZ reason was utter bullshit and nothing more.

Of course labour cost is part of the equation, I'm not saying its irrelevant. But why do they care so much to keep it as low as possible? Simple, the more they keep from you and every other employee group, the fatter their own bonuses are.

[cdnavater]

Again, I find this argument way too reductive and assumes pilot compensation is that much of a direction setter. There are a myriad of factors that dictate frequency and gauge. If it simply came down to what the two guys upfront were making, every destination with high daily frequency would be served once a day by a 747.

And again to your point of the beaten dog mentality. We're faced with such situation and your take is, we can't leapfrog them because they're mainline and that will never happen. Instead of we must overtake them for our own sake, and that will in-turn, help them further significant gains.

No, believe me, in a perfect world I wouldn’t care how much they pay a 737 Captain or 330 Captain, but I live in the real world where ULCC start up pay the pilots less than the same job elsewhere, why do they do this if pilot cost is not relevant?
Every single cost is relevant and I’ve been the recipient of demanding more pay to be followed up with two airlines doing my job cheaper, one was a complete start up with seed money from the very company we demanded more from, the other was a long time lower tier provider who was suddenly flying RJs around and if not for our union would have been operating CRJ 900s for much less.
If our wages are so insignificant, why has airline management spent sooooooo much time driving them down?
The US regional pilots wages were less than half of what I was making even as soon as 10 years ago, the only thing that had that climbing down there was an inability to fill the seats.
Are regional pilots in the US making more than their mainline counterparts, I can say with almost certainty, no and if they ever do, the work will be shifted to where it is cheaper!

These same companies that were paying FO's 15-20K and captains 40K down south, are now paying ten times that. And now its painfully obvious that all those years they spent telling their pilots that the corp simply cannot afford to pay them more for XYZ reason was utter bullshit and nothing more.

Of course labour cost is part of the equation, I'm not saying its irrelevant. But why do they care so much to keep it as low as possible? Simple, the more they keep from you and every other employee group, the fatter their own bonuses are.

I think the point has been lost, my point is that the regionals will not pay more than their mainline counterparts, that simple, it won’t happen ever, you can think as you like but I’ve been in this industry since 1990, I’ve developed my opinion based on those years witnessing and being affected by it personally.
Show me any regional airline in the world that pay more than their mainline counterparts and I’ll happily admit I’m wrong, I’m fairly certain I won’t have to though.
BTW, Jazz starting pay excluded because this was a temporary measure until they negotiate a new starting pay, to which I guarantee will be higher than ours, it was supposed to be higher and my guess, the AC management turned our original agreed upon wages down because it was too close to what they have in mind for their’s.

[Tbayer2021]

No, believe me, in a perfect world I wouldn’t care how much they pay a 737 Captain or 330 Captain, but I live in the real world where ULCC start up pay the pilots less than the same job elsewhere, why do they do this if pilot cost is not relevant?
Every single cost is relevant and I’ve been the recipient of demanding more pay to be followed up with two airlines doing my job cheaper, one was a complete start up with seed money from the very company we demanded more from, the other was a long time lower tier provider who was suddenly flying RJs around and if not for our union would have been operating CRJ 900s for much less.
If our wages are so insignificant, why has airline management spent sooooooo much time driving them down?
The US regional pilots wages were less than half of what I was making even as soon as 10 years ago, the only thing that had that climbing down there was an inability to fill the seats.
Are regional pilots in the US making more than their mainline counterparts, I can say with almost certainty, no and if they ever do, the work will be shifted to where it is cheaper!

These same companies that were paying FO's 15-20K and captains 40K down south, are now paying ten times that. And now its painfully obvious that all those years they spent telling their pilots that the corp simply cannot afford to pay them more for XYZ reason was utter bullshit and nothing more.

Of course labour cost is part of the equation, I'm not saying its irrelevant. But why do they care so much to keep it as low as possible? Simple, the more they keep from you and every other employee group, the fatter their own bonuses are.

I think the point has been lost, my point is that the regionals will not pay more than their mainline counterparts, that simple, it won’t happen ever, you can think as you like but I’ve been in this industry since 1990, I’ve developed my opinion based on those years witnessing and being affected by it personally.
Show me any regional airline in the world that pay more than their mainline counterparts and I’ll happily admit I’m wrong, I’m fairly certain I won’t have to though.
BTW, Jazz starting pay excluded because this was a temporary measure until they negotiate a new starting pay, to which I guarantee will be higher than ours, it was supposed to be higher and my guess, the AC management turned our original agreed upon wages down because it was too close to what they have in mind for their’s.

Look no further than what you literally just said. You can add whatever caveat you want, but the fact that it just happened is more than enough proof that it can happen! I understand your opinion on the matter, but I also understand that it has been largely shaped by that "beaten dog" mentality.

[cdnavater]

These same companies that were paying FO's 15-20K and captains 40K down south, are now paying ten times that. And now its painfully obvious that all those years they spent telling their pilots that the corp simply cannot afford to pay them more for XYZ reason was utter bullshit and nothing more.

Of course labour cost is part of the equation, I'm not saying its irrelevant. But why do they care so much to keep it as low as possible? Simple, the more they keep from you and every other employee group, the fatter their own bonuses are.

I think the point has been lost, my point is that the regionals will not pay more than their mainline counterparts, that simple, it won’t happen ever, you can think as you like but I’ve been in this industry since 1990, I’ve developed my opinion based on those years witnessing and being affected by it personally.
Show me any regional airline in the world that pay more than their mainline counterparts and I’ll happily admit I’m wrong, I’m fairly certain I won’t have to though.
BTW, Jazz starting pay excluded because this was a temporary measure until they negotiate a new starting pay, to which I guarantee will be higher than ours, it was supposed to be higher and my guess, the AC management turned our original agreed upon wages down because it was too close to what they have in mind for their’s.

Look no further than what you literally just said. You can add whatever caveat you want, but the fact that it just happened is more than enough proof that it can happen! I understand your opinion on the matter, but I also understand that it has been largely shaped by that "beaten dog" mentality.

Ok, except with my caveat I’ll add that Jazz pilots were so severely underpaid that giving them a 50% raise brought them up to just barely over AC starting pay and well below inflation from when I started. Jazz starting pay should be 84,000 adjusted for inflation to when I started, it woefully short of that at about 66,000. This was also less than what was originally negotiated with our company, the actual number, only people in the room know the answer to that. If you seriously think AC starting pay will be less than or just barely more than Jazz, again I couldn’t possibly respond to that and bear in mind this new wage at Jazz was outside of bargaining, to which we had no leverage other than they couldn’t staff us, still can’t really.
My prediction, when the dust settles the starting wages at Encore, with or without a strike will be 68-70k, more than that as an ask, they will be on strike until the doors close. I really hope I’m wrong!

[HFNav]

2022 Horizon year 1 FO went from $48 to $90,
while Alaska was paying year 1 FO $92

Encore or Jazz could have near AC and WJ wages



Horizon

Captains will get an average pay hike of 74% while first officers will get a pay raise of 85%, the pilot union announced Friday.

First-year captains at Horizon will jump from earning $81 to $149 an hour, the highest rate at any regional carrier. New-hire first officers now earning $48 an hour leap to $90 an hour.

“A new hire Horizon pilot can finally make a living, afford to raise a family and save for retirement,” Muckle said. “Highly experienced aviators can choose to stay in the regionals for a fulfilling career.”


Horizon contract includes a “me too” clause: If the pilots at the largest regional carrier, SkyWest, negotiate a higher raise anytime in the next two years, Horizon pilots will get an automatic bump up equal to the SkyWest rate plus $1 per hour.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... -contract/


Alaska pilots will see pretty significant pay increases of 8-23.1% immediately, plus further pay raises over the next couple of years. On top of that, pilots have new scope clause protections.

In the event pilots at other airlines get a better contract, Alaska pilots will be entitled to the average of the top pay scales of American, Delta, JetBlue, Southwest, and United


https://onemileatatime.com/news/alaska- ... -contract/


According to The Seattle Times, 3,600 Alaska pilots will receive an increase of 11.2% to their wages starting September 1st. Last fall, the minimum increase was set at 4%, but thanks to a no-one-left-behind clause in the contract, the airline bumped the pay increase above 11%, staying aligned with the pay of pilots at rival carriers.

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-airline ... mber-2023/

[rigpiggy]

We are not, but every time pilots get a strike vote the feds threaten or use arbitration, and not to our advantage

[‘Bob’]

Is the concept of supply and demand so hard to grasp?

You can jerk off over numbers and job roles as much as you want... but until there are a dearth of applicants or a mass exodus of workers for better wages, Canadian remuneration will remain low.

[JustaCanadian]

This is straight from gov of Canada website. They will tell us how much better Canada is for work than USA. Just like Canadian healthcare is better, our roads and traffic are better, our national sport is better, taxes here are better, our climate change policy.... You guessed it, better!

All you looking south are in for a real shock. It's better here! Please stay.

11-627-m2018013-eng.jpg (739.75 KiB) Viewed 1866 times

[Julien31130]

Now the question is : Are they gonna produce the same chart for 2023?…I don’t think so

[JustaCanadian]

Now the question is : Are they gonna produce the same chart for 2023?…I don’t think so

I don't post information that does not support my ideas.

But I bet the data would be the same anyways...

Uneducated minimum wage jobs are outpacing skilled labour in Canada (as the chart above is for those without degrees. Minimum wage has kept up with inflation. Most other jobs have not in Canada.

And women are outpacing men with wages, also another likely trend that is still continuing in 2023.

This is why Canadians should be proud to be here. We support the lower classes, and women, unlike America. ALPA is picking the wrong fight here. The goal should not be to get our pilots to be the same as America. The goal should be to get our pilots to be the same as other positions at Air Canada. Black female ramp agent should equal white male privilege pilot. Canada website says so. Have some pride in your country.

Maybe meet somewhere in the middle with ramp staff, and these stats will look amazing next decade.

[digits_]

This is straight from gov of Canada website. They will tell us how much better Canada is for work than USA. Just like Canadian healthcare is better, our roads and traffic are better, our national sport is better, taxes here are better, our climate change policy.... You guessed it, better!

All you looking south are in for a real shock. It's better here! Please stay.

11-627-m2018013-eng.jpg

Not every piece of information written by the government is aimed towards pilots. 15 years ago the chart would likely have been correct for pilots as well.

If you're making minimum wage (or less), working for a fast food chain or big retail company, your life will likely be better in Canada than in the US. Once you start making 10 times minimum wage, you will likely make more money in the US. That's not really a secret, and that hasn't really changed much in the past few years.

[pitottubey]

No, believe me, in a perfect world I wouldn’t care how much they pay a 737 Captain or 330 Captain, but I live in the real world where ULCC start up pay the pilots less than the same job elsewhere, why do they do this if pilot cost is not relevant?
Every single cost is relevant and I’ve been the recipient of demanding more pay to be followed up with two airlines doing my job cheaper, one was a complete start up with seed money from the very company we demanded more from, the other was a long time lower tier provider who was suddenly flying RJs around and if not for our union would have been operating CRJ 900s for much less.
If our wages are so insignificant, why has airline management spent sooooooo much time driving them down?
The US regional pilots wages were less than half of what I was making even as soon as 10 years ago, the only thing that had that climbing down there was an inability to fill the seats.
Are regional pilots in the US making more than their mainline counterparts, I can say with almost certainty, no and if they ever do, the work will be shifted to where it is cheaper!

These same companies that were paying FO's 15-20K and captains 40K down south, are now paying ten times that. And now its painfully obvious that all those years they spent telling their pilots that the corp simply cannot afford to pay them more for XYZ reason was utter bullshit and nothing more.

Of course labour cost is part of the equation, I'm not saying its irrelevant. But why do they care so much to keep it as low as possible? Simple, the more they keep from you and every other employee group, the fatter their own bonuses are.

I think the point has been lost, my point is that the regionals will not pay more than their mainline counterparts, that simple, it won’t happen ever, you can think as you like but I’ve been in this industry since 1990, I’ve developed my opinion based on those years witnessing and being affected by it personally.
Show me any regional airline in the world that pay more than their mainline counterparts and I’ll happily admit I’m wrong, I’m fairly certain I won’t have to though.
BTW, Jazz starting pay excluded because this was a temporary measure until they negotiate a new starting pay, to which I guarantee will be higher than ours, it was supposed to be higher and my guess, the AC management turned our original agreed upon wages down because it was too close to what they have in mind for their’s.

It will never ever happen ever, except right now currently at Jazz

[cdnavater]

These same companies that were paying FO's 15-20K and captains 40K down south, are now paying ten times that. And now its painfully obvious that all those years they spent telling their pilots that the corp simply cannot afford to pay them more for XYZ reason was utter bullshit and nothing more.

Of course labour cost is part of the equation, I'm not saying its irrelevant. But why do they care so much to keep it as low as possible? Simple, the more they keep from you and every other employee group, the fatter their own bonuses are.

I think the point has been lost, my point is that the regionals will not pay more than their mainline counterparts, that simple, it won’t happen ever, you can think as you like but I’ve been in this industry since 1990, I’ve developed my opinion based on those years witnessing and being affected by it personally.
Show me any regional airline in the world that pay more than their mainline counterparts and I’ll happily admit I’m wrong, I’m fairly certain I won’t have to though.
BTW, Jazz starting pay excluded because this was a temporary measure until they negotiate a new starting pay, to which I guarantee will be higher than ours, it was supposed to be higher and my guess, the AC management turned our original agreed upon wages down because it was too close to what they have in mind for their’s.

It will never ever happen ever, except right now currently at Jazz

I literally mentioned Jazz in my last paragraph, it’s temporary and would have been more but it weakened AC management’s negotiations so they kiboshed it! Learn about reading comprehension, something you may be lacking

[CaptDukeNukem]

I think the point has been lost, my point is that the regionals will not pay more than their mainline counterparts, that simple, it won’t happen ever, you can think as you like but I’ve been in this industry since 1990, I’ve developed my opinion based on those years witnessing and being affected by it personally.
Show me any regional airline in the world that pay more than their mainline counterparts and I’ll happily admit I’m wrong, I’m fairly certain I won’t have to though.
BTW, Jazz starting pay excluded because this was a temporary measure until they negotiate a new starting pay, to which I guarantee will be higher than ours, it was supposed to be higher and my guess, the AC management turned our original agreed upon wages down because it was too close to what they have in mind for their’s.

It will never ever happen ever, except right now currently at Jazz

I literally mentioned Jazz in my last paragraph, it’s temporary and would have been more but it weakened AC management’s negotiations so they kiboshed it! Learn about reading comprehension, something you may be lacking

You ol’ dudes gotta start taking it easy on us. TikTok killing us. We have extreme undiagnosed ADHD and can’t read your 200 word replies without forgetting that first 100 words. But hey, we play video games REAL GOOD and planes these days are basically that. I bet we can beat you at Mario kart

[cdnavater]

It will never ever happen ever, except right now currently at Jazz

I literally mentioned Jazz in my last paragraph, it’s temporary and would have been more but it weakened AC management’s negotiations so they kiboshed it! Learn about reading comprehension, something you may be lacking

You ol’ dudes gotta start taking it easy on us. TikTok killing us. We have extreme undiagnosed ADHD and can’t read your 200 word replies without forgetting that first 100 words. But hey, we play video games REAL GOOD and planes these days are basically that. I bet we can beat you at Mario kart

Of course, it could be forgiven if it were the first paragraph, maybe he/she/they got distracted and never finished reading before they replied, dunno, but there is no way you’re beating me a Mario Kart, I have kids your age!