What would you do?

[seiger]

I'm a 25 year old commercial pilot with 400hours. I don't work in the aviation business but I have a decent job and I make good money. I have a wife and a very nice house and all the toys I want. But I hate my current job.
I love renting airplanes on the weekend and feel that the flying would outweigh the salary or will I eventually hate a flying job too. How do most of you pilots feel about your job? Would I be a complete fool to take an entry level flying job. Will I afford to sell my house and mortgage another on a pilot salary? Do you think I will kick myself in the ass. Or are all complaining pilots junior pilots.

My wife is as scared as hell since I started mentioning this.

Will I ever be as well off as I am now. How long does it take before you make over $70,000 per year?

I hope all of this makes sense I'm on my 8th beer.

[gelbisch]

my two cents...

this industry sucks. it's frustrating and financially unrewarding (in most cases, anyway). i look at my brother and friends and their chosen professions, and sometimes wonder what the hell i'm doing. and i think i've had an easier go of it than most of my peers.

that being said... i'd never for a second seriously consider quitting. it gets in your blood and you realize it's as much a part of you as your eye colour. you realize that every silly and aggravating aspect of the industry is worth enduring for those mornings you climb into the sunrise, and feel that you're leaving everything frivolous and mundance behind. your friends might make money and be more secure... they might have a mortgage and a shiny car and sunday dinner with their beautiful wives and kids... but they'll never have as much fun at work as you. you realize that you complain a lot about your job just because, well hey... that's what pilots do.

it is a goofy job in many ways, and i suppose it's not a lifestyle everyone can handle... particularly for the spouse. it's important that your wife is on board with you, of course; but as far as whether you'd regret driving airplanes for a living... my opinion is no!

[I'd Rather Be Flying]

It's true. No matter how bad things may seem, if you love what you do for a living, then all the rest of it is meaningless. I don't regret a single day having to get up to go to work because I know that I'm going to go and do something which I really enjoy.

That being said, you will likely have to put up with some crap while you're getting your feet wet (lousy pay, scheduals, equipment, employers). Not all of aviation is like that though....I work at a great company and wouldn't trade this career for anything else.

It's really up to you. Nobody else will hold your hand and say yes you should or no you shouldn't. The choice is yours. Choose wisely and decide what makes you happy. That's what matters. Good luck!

[chief]

I kick myself in the butt for not strapping on those skates earlier and trying for the NHL!

[Flybabe]

Seiger -

My advice is to involve your wife in the decision. It's not a small decision, it affects both you AND her. And your house. And your lifestyle. And...

I used to work with a guy that had a plum job at a mill. He loved flying as much as his wife and two kids. With them to support he found it incredibly difficult to leave his 70K job and beautiful home for a 35K flying job without losing his family. What he's doing now, I'm not sure, but my guess is he is either flying part time in addition to his mill job or he's flying full time and is divorced

Not that it helps your situation, but... there is no guarantee you will make 70K in a short period of time. In fact I think most everyone on here would agree there are NO guarantees in aviation, period!

Involve your wife, consider where you might have to go, how much you might have to move and how long it will take (if ever) to attain that salary you make now. Then you can make the decicion. Good luck!

[co-joe]

I'm a 25 year old commercial pilot with 400hours. I don't work in the aviation business but I have a decent job and I make good money. I have a wife and a very nice house and all the toys I want. But I hate my current job.

I'm almost 30 years old, ATPL with over 2000 hours, I fly a King Air, I don't make good money and I am in HUGE debt, I am single, and rent a room in someone else's house, I have 2 toys (one for summer and one for winter), but I love my job. Wanna trade for a day? CJ

[corn-shoot]

Would I be a complete fool to take an entry level flying job.

YES...my advice to you, RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY... Where did all of this emphasis on employment come from? You have a decent job, a woman that loves you and a great "5 o'clock world". Why would you jeopardize this? Oh yea, because you wanna be a cowboy superpilot... My advice...stay away from this trainwreck.

[TeeKay]

My 2 cents...

Your wife and family will ultimately make you happier than any flying job (Happy wife, happy life. Husband bad, wife is sad...)

But if you can keep your bad flying habbit and your wife, then you have found the secret to life... please share it with the rest of us!

Now is NOT a great time to try and get into aviation. That is, without dragging your family up to Keehawakinicinakoottititiwakavak for a 24/7 job for peanuts for an unappreciative boss, just so you can get those first few desperate career starting hours. If your family is happy moving with you to Keehawakinicinakoottititiwakavak, then more power to you.

[gelbisch]

My advice...stay away from this trainwreck.

while i certainly understand where you're coming from, i think that's easier to say when you've been there and done that, and allowed cynicism to take root. a few weeks ago i was pulling off my prop ties, or something like that, and some dude on the other side of the fence started asking me some goofy questions about the machine. i kind of rolled my eyes and humoured him for a minute or two, and when i said i had to run, he thanked me for my time and told me i'm a lucky man. kind of gave me pause.

don't get me wrong... there are days that i loathe this industry and wonder if it's not too late to bail... but it usually doesn't take me much to bring me back down to earth. or, uh... other way around, i guess.

[flyinthebug]

Seiger.... I was faced with a similiar decision to yours. I was late 20`s and had the opportunity to finally get past having a PPL that I got at 19 yrs old, and pursuing my career i`d always wanted in aviation. I have ALWAYS loved flying, and everything involved with it. I too had a 40K job, mon-fri, and a wife and 3 kids. We had just bought our first house, and lived in a city where all our friends were etc etc. I decided to after much discussion with my wife, and a close friend of mine at the time who was directly involved in aviation (He was a King Air Capt for the Bear and will forever be greatful to him for all his help he gave me getting started.. Thanks M, u know who u r) to start to chase the dream. We sold our house, and after I got my CPL and Multi IFR, north I went with 100 resumes in hand and I actually got my first job on that road trip. I went from 40K a year and a comfortable life, to building docks, cleaning offices, and flyinga C206 for .26 a mile, no base. We moved from all we knew and loved. My kids attended 4 schools, in 4 years, in 4 diffrent places. My wife suffered, I became married to aviation. NOTHING mattered as much as chasing the dream. It became almost obsessive for me. While I was up north, living on a res in N. MB, my family carried on and tried to support me. Its tests the strongest of marriages at the best of times, and the first few years will be the worst and hardest being away so much, from the people you were used to seeing daily at 5:30 pm... I finally got a job out of a city flying a PA31, and finally got to spend a bit of quality time with the people I loved. Its almost 10 years later.... and im finally making a bit more then I was when I was employed as a Parts Manager for a Heavy Truck Sales & Service business (Peterbuilt Trucks). I suffered, my family suffered, but ya know what, I wouldnt change a single thing! Its been a hell of a journey to this point, and im looking forward to the next 10 years in this crazy damn industry. You`ll need a VERY commited and devoted wife, who can "share you" with aviation. Your kids are more resiliant then you`d imagine, and having lived an "army brats" style of childhood myself, I can honestly say that all those scary new days at new schools, made me a better person, (with friends in most provinces that are places I can visit to this day).
Its a long and tedious journey, and if you decide to take your family along for the ride, just make sure they know what their getting into, even when you DONT! and there will be times, you wont have a clue, even when you think you do!
All this said, if aviation is your passion as it obviously is, you`ll be drawn to it one way or the other. I always believed and still do, that its better to look back and know that you took a shot at doing what you truly love to do, then to sit and whine about how your life sucks.. Ive heard many pilots say something that is rare in the business world, and that is, they LOVE to get up early in the morning to go to work. Imagine that! Is it worth it? Only a PILOT knows forsure
Best of luck in whatever you decide. Food for thought.. do you enjoy your cuurent business relationship well enough that you could ask your boss if you could take a 6 month LOA? If the flying didnt work out, maybe the desk would be waiting when you got back? Just a thought.
Fly safe all, Cheers!

[CLguy]

Sieger, you are at a crossroad in your life and are about to make the toughest decision you will ever make. If you stay where you are you will always wonder, what if? If you go you are in for one hell of a ride with many years of crap jobs, crap places to live and no security or guarantees.

If you are the adventurous, care free type and your wife is as well and agrees with you to go for it, then follow your dreams but remember it is your dream and you may find yourself living it alone if the other half is not as keen as you are to give up everything you now have and know. If you or she is the type that likes a bit of stability and do not want to be moving around the country every six months or so then stay where you are and don't ever beat yourself up about that decision.

I have been flying commercially for 25 years, have had a great career and I have a great job, but I can honestly say that I could walk away from aviation tomorrow and probably never look back. I have also seen many people that always seemed to fall through the cracks for whatever reason and they end up chasing the rainbow their whole career and never seem to quite get there.

I take it by your post that you have no children which would make the transition a lot easier, but remember the grass is always greener on the other side, at least until you get there!

Good luck!!

[Sqwak 7600]

Seiger,

Go for it! If you love flying than I'd say do it! It is a wonderful thing and you should be doing what makes you happy. Don't listen to all the negativity on this forum....usually the ones doing the whining are the ones that have never had to work hard for anything before. I am over 30 now...have worked numerous jobs ranging from construction to factory to university account manager.....and finally got myself into a turbo prop and love it! My salary now is lower than when I was 22, but it doesn't matter. The money will improve later on.

Doing what you love is most important. If you hate getting out of bed every morning, than you may as well stay in bed.

Having the right attitude will carry you as far as you want to go.

[corn-shoot]

Yea, hey go for it...Find a good divorce attorney first, and make sure, for gosh sake, make sure, that the woman doesn't get the dog. Oh how I miss my beloved shepherd. But hey, I've got my bachelor appartment and a special sock under my bed, and cheesies taped to my shoulders when I go to work. I advise you to do your homework and be very very careful.

Are you in this so your family can say "My son, the pilot" or do you think there's something glamourous and romantic about this business? I hereby invite all pilot hopefuls up to visit me and spend the week shadowing my work. Hell I'll even give you a pilot shirt with cheesies on it so you can feel what it's like.

[seiger]

I just want a job where I can get up in the morning and be excited. I can't wait for each weekend to come so I can fly for an hour. I want to feel like that every day. I'm just very nervous that I may screw our lives up. My wife is supportive, but I don't want to put her through poverty. We like our house, we like taking vacations, we like and have been raised liking expensive things. My parents would never say "My son, the pilot". They would say, "He had everything going for him and then he became a pilot, but let me tell you about our other son the computer programmer, he makes lots of money an has a wonderful life"

Corn-shoot, why don't you go into another occupation if you don't like flying, there is alot of opportunity in other careers. Nursing, computers, engineering, construction, oil, medicine just to name a few.

[EPR]

I would keep the day job and obtain an Instructors rating and instruct on the weekends and evenings.

[Flyingpusser]

Seiger,
Keep your job,buy yourself a 150 or 172, fly at night, on week-ends, on holidays. Go to Osh-Kosh, just like most guys who love flying enough to sink a small fortune in it. That way you can still retire at 45 with a pension, keep the wife and dog, and still go to parties and say: Of course I'm a pilot! Do you want a ride? Believe me, if you're not certain that you want to be a carrier pilot, don't do it.

[muchacho]

Two thumbs up to Flyingthebug ....


I was in my mid 20s, I had a 50+K 9-5 job living in the city that I loved but it was not flying. So I left all that for an instructing job and then a saesonal job up north (in Nunavut) for less than 20K and abusing employers. I had numerous unemployments. My first wife left me on my second tour of duty up North ... There were times that I thought I could not push the envelope any further ... but I know I would rather sleep in hangar for the rest of my life knowing that I get up and fly an Airplane the next day than sleep in a warm cozy bed dreaming WHAT IF....


Now I have over 3500 hours and flying a Navajo for living out of a descent city, I met a beautiful girl (my 2nd wife) who knows that she is sharing me with aviation. I dont regret it a bit ....


Go after your dream and belive me those PILOTS who complain about their jobs, are those who have never done any other jobs to realize the difference of getting up and doing what you LOVE versus the opposite.

My 2 Cents ....

[Yoyoma]

I just want a job where I can get up in the morning and be excited. I can't wait for each weekend to come so I can fly for an hour. I want to feel like that every day. .......
......but I don't want to put her through poverty. We like our house, we like taking vacations, we like and have been raised liking expensive things. .......

Wallstreet

[N2]

For every 1 person who makes a decent living in aviation I would bet there are 100 or more who have been financially set back a great deal. Try not to look at the here and now, try to look 20 years down the road and imagine what the state of aviation will be at that time. Pilot less planes? Perhaps or bigger aircraft requiring fewer flights which equals few fight crew spots or perhaps personal air travel will come into being. More and more business people are opting to buy a small aircraft and fly it themselves to avoid the BS with the carriers and that is only going to increase as personal 4 seater jets make their way into the market place at a reasonable cost. I personally will fly myself before looking to the airlines. So what it takes me longer but I enjoy it a thousand times more!

People will always tell you the good that has happened to them but there are lots and lots out there who have been just as unlucky. They will tell you that those who talk about the negative are just bitter. That is not true, people are taking the truth and sometimes the truth is not pleasant but there is always another side to everything. You may be rewarded with a decent career or you might waste a lot of money chasing a pipe dream. One never knows so plan wisely.

What I am saying in a round about way is sure flying looks like a fun way to make a living but 20 or 30 years down the road will you still have a job? Will you make enough during your career to retire comfortably(pensions at the airlines are not going to be as cushy as they once were and wages are certainly coming down)? Will you make it through your career without being furloughed a couple of times? If you do find yourself on the losing end what other skills will you have to fall back on? I don’t think working at Home Depot telling everyone you used to be an airline pilot will make you feel very good. All things to consider.

[Yoyoma]

Again N2 comes in with some solid advice!

I had to look at it this way before leaving...Over a 20 year period, I imagined the years spent away from home, not making a reasonnable wage, no savings, small living space, old beat up car, deteriorated relationship with someone you're supposed to love, let alone the time spent unemployed working as a god knows what for the same salary...

No security, constant battle to stay in the air in a deteriorating industry... This same industry that we all pretend to love has kicked us back so many time we've lost count...

Give aviation 20 points for bringing you happiness....And then compare it to a loving family (1 point) A decent house (1pt) 2 cars, great salary, vacations, restaurants, materialistic stuff...Annnnnd aviation as a hobby...

Unless you belong to one of those fortuned pilots flying for a decent wage, then aviation doesn't stand a chance in my opinion...

Cheers

[Bcn-In-Bnd]

seiger,
I wont you try something.
Starting today tell you wife (partern/or whatever) that you will be home
at 5:00 then around 6:00 call her up and tell her that things got busy and now you cant make it home until 8 or 9. (How did she take it?)
Do this for about a month.

Plan a couple partys or get-togethers, but dont go to them.
Tell you best friend that you will be his best-man at his wedding and then call him up a day before and tell him you cant make it. Because you have to fly and you cant get anyone to fill in for you.


I like what I do as much as anyone else on this forum.
If I had a chance to change the past would I?.
You bet I would.

Think very hard about this one.

[Yoyoma]

This thread, and a few others on similar subjets, have had some very shocking responses (in a positive way)...

Bcn-In-Bnd and others who think alike, what would you be doing if you had to do it over again?

It's a hard decision to make...

Cheers and keep the posts comin'

[Yoyoma]

Oups

[Yoyoma]

Oups II

[Yoyoma]

Oups III, damn technology!!!