WORLD CLASS CONTRACT: ALPA

[YYCAME]

I think the B1 passes are an odd item to bargain because it costs the company nothing but is done at the expense of other employee groups. It's the equivalent of saying we want better parking spots than everyone else and helps management justify their own privileges that have nothing to do with merit or service to the company. It starts an arms race of each bargaining group asking for slightly higher priority than the last unless you include a clause forbidding it. I think a better ask would be several positive space passes per year or do it like Westjet where you can buy heavily discounted tickets because that would normalize a possible common benefit for everyone in future bargaining.

[Flyboy736]

I think the B1 passes are an odd item to bargain because it costs the company nothing but is done at the expense of other employee groups. It's the equivalent of saying we want better parking spots than everyone else and helps management justify their own privileges that have nothing to do with merit or service to the company. It starts an arms race of each bargaining group asking for slightly higher priority than the last unless you include a clause forbidding it. I think a better ask would be several positive space passes per year or do it like Westjet where you can buy heavily discounted tickets because that would normalize a possible common benefit for everyone in future bargaining.

To add to that it's the perfect thing to get in a future contract when the economy isn't roaring- if ALPA does their analysis and doesn't see much gain they can pull out financially speaking then it's something they can pursue without putting the company into any financial strain.
I rather have a world class contract that we can afford our own j pods with the increase then B1s at the expense of anything else. That's true even if every other comparable airline has their version of B1 inforced

[Apestogetherstrong]

Positive space for sure. However if they are not able to get positive space then at the very least B1 passes or else take the B1 passes away from managers too.

There is not going to be any issues with other bargaining groups. The nurses always know that Doctor’s have certain privileges that are higher. Same goes for pilots and FA’s. Otherwise CEO, executives, managers should be treated equally. There is always a hierarchy and pilots are higher than FA’s on that list. Their jobs are very important but pilots need to stand up and fight for this or else get passes taken away from managers etc.

[Mac08]

No one gets B1’s anymore. Managers lost it last year in September.

[altiplano]

No one gets B1’s anymore. Managers lost it last year in September.

Except the majority actually moved to A1s.

Only a handful of non-manager managers that really aren't managers and are several tiers down had their priority cut. Even then, lots saw priority upgraded.

[bcflyer]

Retro pay
B1 passes back
Better lifestyle
Better schedules
WORLD CLASS WAGES (United, American, Southwest, Delta, Cathay, Emirates, Singapore, Etihad, Air France, Qatar…)
Meals and accommodation
World Class Pension

I have my hopes up that ALPA will deliver on these key points. We are united and we are wearing the red lanyard. We are ready to fight back. Dont disappoint us!

Pass travel isn’t in the contract and isn’t worth bargaining for. (I commute so use my passes a lot btw) The rest I agree with though.

[Mac08]

Yeah, no.

Majority lost B1’s and moved to C1’s. CEM’s which was the majority since theres a lot more than any other “manager” was dropped.

A1’s are for directors and A2’s are for other management in operations or at airport. So you might find 1 A1/2 pass in every 20 flights.

Why waste bargaining on a standby pass.

[altiplano]

I agree that bargaining for pass priority is a waste.

But the fact is that a majority of the aforementioned B1s moved up in priority to As, not down to Cs.

[Apestogetherstrong]

I agree that bargaining for pass priority is a waste.

But the fact is that a majority of the aforementioned B1s moved up in priority to As, not down to Cs.

World class contract equals better travel benefits for pilots whether its positive space or some kind of higher priority. Thats just my opinion. Most world class airlines have some sort of higher priority benefit or positive space passes.

[pitottubey]

Go get em guys!! Canadian pilots, know your worth and fight for it. You are worth every bit as an American, French, Chinese or wherever pilot. It's time to get over your beaten dog syndrome. Strike!!! Hold the line!

[pitottubey]

Go get em guys!! Canadian pilots, know your worth and fight for it. You are worth every bit as an American, French, Chinese or wherever pilot. It's time to get over your beaten dog syndrome. Strike!!! Hold the line!

[bobcaygeon]

Positive space for sure. However if they are not able to get positive space then at the very least B1 passes or else take the B1 passes away from managers too.

There is not going to be any issues with other bargaining groups. The nurses always know that Doctor’s have certain privileges that are higher. Same goes for pilots and FA’s. Otherwise CEO, executives, managers should be treated equally. There is always a hierarchy and pilots are higher than FA’s on that list. Their jobs are very important but pilots need to stand up and fight for this or else get passes taken away from managers etc.

You are management's dream ALPA negotiator. A negotiator that's willing to use bargaining capital ie "smarties" for pass travel perks. You only get so many smarties to barter with at the table and the more you want to trade for crap the better.

[cdnavater]

Positive space for sure. However if they are not able to get positive space then at the very least B1 passes or else take the B1 passes away from managers too.

There is not going to be any issues with other bargaining groups. The nurses always know that Doctor’s have certain privileges that are higher. Same goes for pilots and FA’s. Otherwise CEO, executives, managers should be treated equally. There is always a hierarchy and pilots are higher than FA’s on that list. Their jobs are very important but pilots need to stand up and fight for this or else get passes taken away from managers etc.

You are management's dream ALPA negotiator. A negotiator that's willing to use bargaining capital ie "smarties" for pass travel perks. You only get so many smarties to barter with at the table and the more you want to trade for crap the better.

A world class “company” would include positive space commuting, imagine if you had a proper commuting policy, this should be a given in this age.

[flyingfool]

I agree that bargaining for pass priority is a waste.

But the fact is that a majority of the aforementioned B1s moved up in priority to As, not down to Cs.

World class contract equals better travel benefits for pilots whether its positive space or some kind of higher priority. Thats just my opinion. Most world class airlines have some sort of higher priority benefit or positive space passes.

Name one US Airline pilot group that has special passes that trump other employee groups

[CPU2000]

I agree that bargaining for pass priority is a waste.

But the fact is that a majority of the aforementioned B1s moved up in priority to As, not down to Cs.

World class contract equals better travel benefits for pilots whether its positive space or some kind of higher priority. Thats just my opinion. Most world class airlines have some sort of higher priority benefit or positive space passes.

Name one US Airline pilot group that has special passes that trump other employee groups

Lol...you won't...

Because negotiating against other unionized groups is not a good strategy

[red_shiny_ribbon]

I think AC pilots have an unrealistic expectation that this contract is going to fix 20 years of concessions. I have no doubt pay is going to be higher than what WJ got. How much higher is certainly up for debate. But we're certainly not going to get everything we want here. I hope this round turns the tide and It changes the tune of negotiations going forward. But anyone thinking we're going to get everything we want, is setting themselves up for some serious disappointment. It just isn't how negotiations work.

Like the poster above said. We have a limited number of smarties and we better use them on the important items.

[Apestogetherstrong]

I think AC pilots have an unrealistic expectation that this contract is going to fix 20 years of concessions. I have no doubt pay is going to be higher than what WJ got. How much higher is certainly up for debate. But we're certainly not going to get everything we want here. I hope this round turns the tide and It changes the tune of negotiations going forward. But anyone thinking we're going to get everything we want, is setting themselves up for some serious disappointment. It just isn't how negotiations work.

Like the poster above said. We have a limited number of smarties and we better use them on the important items.

Who says we have limited number of smarties. What we as a pilot group don’t have is a spine. We can strike too you know. Think bigger. World class contract!

[red_shiny_ribbon]

We sure can. But I'd be more interested in learning of any group out there, not just pilot. That received everything they wanted during negotiations or even after striking.

Do you know of any such thing ever happening?

[Dockjock]

Neither party will receive everything. In point of fact, some items are already tentatively agreed to, which all but guarantees that getting “everything” is already off the table. “Everything” is also extremely reductive, because ALPA’s position on any given item is an amalgam of the pilot groups survey responses, industry benchmarking, and other research.

What IS guaranteed is that there will be know-nothings ranting around afterwards talking about how we “caved” or didn’t have a “spine” based on not winning on every one of their own extremely specific personal wishes.

World Class Contract is a generic rallying cry by design. What is world class? I guess we will know when we see it.

[T1040]

Who receives everything they ask for and more in negotiations?
AC management does.

[Fanblade]

Neither party will receive everything. In point of fact, some items are already tentatively agreed to, which all but guarantees that getting “everything” is already off the table. “Everything” is also extremely reductive, because ALPA’s position on any given item is an amalgam of the pilot groups survey responses, industry benchmarking, and other research.

What IS guaranteed is that there will be know-nothings ranting around afterwards talking about how we “caved” or didn’t have a “spine” based on not winning on every one of their own extremely specific personal wishes.

World Class Contract is a generic rallying cry by design. What is world class? I guess we will know when we see it.

Exactly.

The only way to define World Class is to have access to the survey data. A WWC is defined by the median of over 5000 pilots. There will be disappointed pilots, simply because it is inevitable to have people thinking outside the median. Actually it’s completely normal.

[AirCandida]

Does anyone know the bus driver salary of the Air Canada coach service that started this past week? Is it the NHL of bus driving?

[dontcallmeshirley]

Does anyone know the bus driver salary of the Air Canada coach service that started this past week? Is it the NHL of bus driving?

According to this super reliable website, $28.47 per hour. If we assume 40 hours per week, that's a bit under $57,000 per year.

[cdnavater]

Does anyone know the bus driver salary of the Air Canada coach service that started this past week? Is it the NHL of bus driving?

According to this super reliable website, $28.47 per hour. If we assume 40 hours per week, that's a bit under $57,000 per year.

So FO wages

[dontcallmeshirley]

According to this super reliable website, $28.47 per hour. If we assume 40 hours per week, that's a bit under $57,000 per year.

So FO wages

Let's not continue to normalize crap wages as "FO wages."