Would you rather...

[RayJr]

What experience do you think is better with the goal of moving to larger jets, airline/corporate down the road?

Navajo Chieftain or PC-12? Or generic larger piston twin or TP single. Assuming both are either charter/medevac.

Knowing this forum your first thought is probably this guy is an idiot that's a dumb question. Lets assume I already know that you really only need to respond if you actually have an opinion.

Thanks in advance as always

Cheers

[C-GGGQ]

Either honestly. Navajo likely will not have a working autopilot. More hand flying skills. Pc12 however is pressurized turbine more applicable to future jobs. The real answer is “the best company that has the most flight hours” a lot of medevac flying is slow for time building buy a lot of Navajo operators are kinda sketchy….

[RayJr]

Either honestly. Navajo likely will not have a working autopilot. More hand flying skills. Pc12 however is pressurized turbine more applicable to future jobs. The real answer is “the best company that has the most flight hours” a lot of medevac flying is slow for time building buy a lot of Navajo operators are kinda sketchy….

Good points. I didn't consider the pressurized factor. At the end of the day time is probably the main consideration I guess.

[digits_]

Generally multi pic will beat singe pic.
Any PIC time will beat any FO time.

You'll likely be able to upgrade quicker on the Navajo.

[‘Bob’]

I can’t really answer it for you.

Would you rather get coveted PIC, multi, and a lot of non-relevant experience like how to hot start a Lycoming or fly steam gauges in 2024 all with shady training, non-existent maintenance, shaky financials, and dubious legality?


Or…

Would you rather get into modern reliable glass and automated aircraft with air conditioning and a fraction of a chance of an engine failure for decent money but fewer and single SIC hours which airlines are increasingly finding just as valuable?

Up to you. If it was me I’d never set foot in a piston ever again. You can get all the experience you need to go to Jazz or Encore in a PC-12 these days as long as your 500 includes a decent amount of PIC.

[C-FDPB]

Go up north and fly floats. Learn a pile of decision making skills, get great story telling material, and be done by sunset every day. Pay is starting to come up and its in high demand. Don't race for the finish line. Take the scenic route.

[5x5]

Don't race for the finish line. Take the scenic route.

As an old guy looking back I'd say that quote is well worth keeping in mind. Along the same line, I would definitely say doing things is almost always better than having things.

[cdnavater]

For a first '500 hour job', what experience do you think is better with the goal of moving to larger jets, airline/corporate down the road?

Navajo Chieftain or PC-12? Or generic larger piston twin or TP single. Assuming both are either charter/medevac.

Knowing this forum your first thought is probably this guy is an idiot that's a dumb question. Lets assume I already know that you really only need to respond if you actually have an opinion.

Thanks in advance as always

Cheers

Hey there RayJr,
I’m curious if the two main options are current offers or a generic just wondering type question.
We are left with assumptions, are these for the left seat or a job for your first 500 hours as FO, not really clear?
Do you have 500 hours and these are jobs you’re considering and again, left or right seat?
If it’s left seat, I would go with the one that will fly you more both will give you some good experience.
If it’s right seat, I would go with the one that is quickest to the upgrade, either one, if Jazz is your near term goal, will get you there pretty quickly.

[MD11]

Multi-crew and turbine time are more valuable in a time builder operation IMO. The PC-12 is amazing to fly and gain the necessary experience to move onto a light jet or regional.

[RayJr]

For a first '500 hour job', what experience do you think is better with the goal of moving to larger jets, airline/corporate down the road?

Hey there RayJr,
I’m curious if the two main options are current offers or a generic just wondering type question.
We are left with assumptions, are these for the left seat or a job for your first 500 hours as FO, not really clear?
Do you have 500 hours and these are jobs you’re considering and again, left or right seat?
If it’s left seat, I would go with the one that will fly you more both will give you some good experience.
If it’s right seat, I would go with the one that is quickest to the upgrade, either one, if Jazz is your near term goal, will get you there pretty quickly.

Hi, good questions. I didn't really consider the folks who could answer this question probably don't spend much time browsing the very low hour job posters!

which plane would be a better choice to get to the airlines. In the 500 hour job pool, there are usually a handful of Navajo type jobs, float stuff and then Ornge. All right seat.

Jazz is undoubtedly the fastest way into a jet and yes it's the near term goal.

I very much appreciate what the other guys are saying about the scenic route. If I were starting out 20 or 25 years younger I would for sure be doing that. But this is a second career for me and I would like to get somewhere that I'd like to stay and start building seniority as fast as I can.

Cheers

[C-GGGQ]

For a first '500 hour job', what experience do you think is better with the goal of moving to larger jets, airline/corporate down the road?

Hey there RayJr,
I’m curious if the two main options are current offers or a generic just wondering type question.
We are left with assumptions, are these for the left seat or a job for your first 500 hours as FO, not really clear?
Do you have 500 hours and these are jobs you’re considering and again, left or right seat?
If it’s left seat, I would go with the one that will fly you more both will give you some good experience.
If it’s right seat, I would go with the one that is quickest to the upgrade, either one, if Jazz is your near term goal, will get you there pretty quickly.

Hi, good questions. I didn't really consider the folks who could answer this question probably don't spend much time browsing the very low hour job posters!

I mean for a guy with 500TT which plane would be a better choice to get to the airlines. In the 500 hour job pool, there are usually a handful of Navajo type jobs, float stuff and then Ornge. All right seat.

Jazz is undoubtedly the fastest way into a jet and yes it's the near term goal.

I very much appreciate what the other guys are saying about the scenic route. If I were starting out 20 or 25 years younger I would for sure be doing that. But this is a second career for me and I would like to get somewhere that I'd like to stay and start building seniority as fast as I can.

Cheers

The best company then. If both equally good then most flight hours. Realistically the one that will get you min 500 hours a year

[cdnavater]

For a first '500 hour job', what experience do you think is better with the goal of moving to larger jets, airline/corporate down the road?

Hey there RayJr,
I’m curious if the two main options are current offers or a generic just wondering type question.
We are left with assumptions, are these for the left seat or a job for your first 500 hours as FO, not really clear?
Do you have 500 hours and these are jobs you’re considering and again, left or right seat?
If it’s left seat, I would go with the one that will fly you more both will give you some good experience.
If it’s right seat, I would go with the one that is quickest to the upgrade, either one, if Jazz is your near term goal, will get you there pretty quickly.

Hi, good questions. I didn't really consider the folks who could answer this question probably don't spend much time browsing the very low hour job posters!

I mean for a guy with 500TT which plane would be a better choice to get to the airlines. In the 500 hour job pool, there are usually a handful of Navajo type jobs, float stuff and then Ornge. All right seat.

Jazz is undoubtedly the fastest way into a jet and yes it's the near term goal.

I very much appreciate what the other guys are saying about the scenic route. If I were starting out 20 or 25 years younger I would for sure be doing that. But this is a second career for me and I would like to get somewhere that I'd like to stay and start building seniority as fast as I can.

Cheers

Believe or not, I’ve encountered a few pilots who went left seat on a King Air 100 at 600 hours, so that is why I asked.
Anyhow, a couple hundred more hours and you’ll be competitive for Jazz. I think right now we need some Captains before we can do any hiring other than attrition, things do seem to be slowing a bit so wherever you go, make sure it’s a job you would be ok with spending a year, possibly longer.

[flaminghotdog]

To add to the points already made, assuming you have 500hrs you’re an instructor? If not then take what gives you the pic time to sign off your ATPL’s. I’ve seen a lot of 2000+ hour people who rushed to go to the airlines having to spend their allowances (because it’s not a salary with what we make) on renting a 152 to time build for the pic time.

The way the industry is it doesn’t matter the type of time, time is time you’ll get hired regardless, you just want to be efficient with your time building between now and 1500hrs and don’t become a dick on the way the industry is super small I’ve seen I’ve seen guys get burned because they though they were gods gift to aviation.

[RayJr]

The way the industry is it doesn’t matter the type of time, time is time you’ll get hired regardless....

That's interesting. Because I'm not an instructor. I own a plane and all my time is literally amateur. I talked to someone from Ornge as well as SkyCare (Navajo) and they didn't mind that my hours are all on my own plane. I was wondering if others care more. It's tailwheel but other than that plain old piston single. I'm just wrapping up my ratings and now hoping to bridge the gap to professional time building.

Thanks for the insights

[IJNShiroyuki]

realistically whatever job you cant get an offer at 500 hour is a good job...

[digits_]

The way the industry is it doesn’t matter the type of time, time is time you’ll get hired regardless....

That's interesting. Because I'm not an instructor. I own a plane (Vans RV) and all my time is literally amateur. I talked to someone from Ornge as well as SkyCare (Navajo) and they didn't mind that my hours are all on my own plane. I was wondering if others care more. It's tailwheel but other than that plain old piston single. I'm just wrapping up my ratings and now hoping to bridge the gap to professional time building.

Thanks for the insights

Prepare for some comments such as "private flying isn't real flying" or "you need commercial experience". Not that I agree with that, but it's something to be aware of. Some employers might not say it, but might be ve thinking it. Just something to keep in mind.

[flaminghotdog]

The way the industry is it doesn’t matter the type of time, time is time you’ll get hired regardless....

That's interesting. Because I'm not an instructor. I own a plane (Vans RV) and all my time is literally amateur. I talked to someone from Ornge as well as SkyCare (Navajo) and they didn't mind that my hours are all on my own plane. I was wondering if others care more. It's tailwheel but other than that plain old piston single. I'm just wrapping up my ratings and now hoping to bridge the gap to professional time building.

Thanks for the insights

That further proves my point, time is time. The industry has changed more that some companies and people would like to admit. Before Lynx went down, the second to last groundschool had a 1000hr flight instructor straight from flight school in it and now he’s at cargojet ( it helps when you’re neighbors with a exec)
Think about that if anyone ever tells you that you only have “tailwheel time in a single piston”

Your concern is valid, there are some boomers who are making decisions at companies that think if you build time on your own plane you’ll develop bad habits as opposed to instructing or “paying your dues up north” My personal opinion is I hire the person not the resume. If you’re not a dick and you can add to company culture I’ll hire because I’ve seen 250hr pilots fly better than 1200hr pilots so for me it’s not how you build your time , it’s what kind of person you are.


Seeing that you own your own aircraft you’ve probably already checked all the atpl boxes so your next move should really be based on the lifestyle you’d like to have and the type of flying you’d like to do. At the end of the day this is YOUR life and career

[cdnavater]

The way the industry is it doesn’t matter the type of time, time is time you’ll get hired regardless....

That's interesting. Because I'm not an instructor. I own a plane (Vans RV) and all my time is literally amateur. I talked to someone from Ornge as well as SkyCare (Navajo) and they didn't mind that my hours are all on my own plane. I was wondering if others care more. It's tailwheel but other than that plain old piston single. I'm just wrapping up my ratings and now hoping to bridge the gap to professional time building.

Thanks for the insights

The only problem with building time in you’re own aircraft is the inability to verify the time, pen whipped logbooks have been a common problem in the past but at 500 hours, I wouldn’t see this as a problem.
As a former C.P, I hired one guy that I remember had 1500 hours of multi-pic on his personal light twin, after a couple hours of training it was quite apparent that he did not or at least it was not IFR time, even had poor hands and feet.
With my past experience, if you showed up with 1000+ hours in your own aircraft, I’d be a little apprehensive, at 500 you’re probably ok. At 500, they get to see what you’re all about in the right seat for a bit, at 1000 they are looking at you for a left seat on something.
I would avoid Skycare, their reputation is quite well known and goes back to the early 90’s as Skyward, very shady, you can do better!

[cjp]

The way the industry is it doesn’t matter the type of time, time is time you’ll get hired regardless....

That's interesting. Because I'm not an instructor. I own a plane (Vans RV) and all my time is literally amateur. I talked to someone from Ornge as well as SkyCare (Navajo) and they didn't mind that my hours are all on my own plane. I was wondering if others care more. It's tailwheel but other than that plain old piston single. I'm just wrapping up my ratings and now hoping to bridge the gap to professional time building.

Thanks for the insights

The only problem with building time in you’re own aircraft is the inability to verify the time, pen whipped logbooks have been a common problem in the past but at 500 hours, I wouldn’t see this as a problem.
As a former C.P, I hired one guy that I remember had 1500 hours of multi-pic on his personal light twin, after a couple hours of training it was quite apparent that he did not or at least it was not IFR time, even had poor hands and feet.
With my past experience, if you showed up with 1000+ hours in your own aircraft, I’d be a little apprehensive, at 500 you’re probably ok. At 500, they get to see what you’re all about in the right seat for a bit, at 1000 they are looking at you for a left seat on something.
I would avoid Skycare, their reputation is quite well known and goes back to the early 90’s as Skyward, very shady, you can do better!

Was this same individual flying his own light twin, while working for a U.S bank and logging 8 hours of flying on a 32 minute leg between the same 2 airports for over a year?

[RayJr]

That's interesting. Because I'm not an instructor. I own a plane (Vans RV) and all my time is literally amateur. I talked to someone from Ornge as well as SkyCare (Navajo) and they didn't mind that my hours are all on my own plane. I was wondering if others care more. It's tailwheel but other than that plain old piston single. I'm just wrapping up my ratings and now hoping to bridge the gap to professional time building.

Thanks for the insights

The only problem with building time in you’re own aircraft is the inability to verify the time, pen whipped logbooks have been a common problem in the

Was this same individual flying his own light twin, while working for a U.S bank and logging 8 hours of flying on a 32 minute leg between the same 2 airports for over a year?

That's funny. My plane has adsb out and all my flights are on flight aware. I am the only person insured on it. I dunno. Hopefully it doesn't become an issue but that is some degree of 3rd party documentation there if it comes down to it. I'll just apply and see what happens I suppose.

[cdnavater]

That's interesting. Because I'm not an instructor. I own a plane (Vans RV) and all my time is literally amateur. I talked to someone from Ornge as well as SkyCare (Navajo) and they didn't mind that my hours are all on my own plane. I was wondering if others care more. It's tailwheel but other than that plain old piston single. I'm just wrapping up my ratings and now hoping to bridge the gap to professional time building.

Thanks for the insights

The only problem with building time in you’re own aircraft is the inability to verify the time, pen whipped logbooks have been a common problem in the past but at 500 hours, I wouldn’t see this as a problem.
As a former C.P, I hired one guy that I remember had 1500 hours of multi-pic on his personal light twin, after a couple hours of training it was quite apparent that he did not or at least it was not IFR time, even had poor hands and feet.
With my past experience, if you showed up with 1000+ hours in your own aircraft, I’d be a little apprehensive, at 500 you’re probably ok. At 500, they get to see what you’re all about in the right seat for a bit, at 1000 they are looking at you for a left seat on something.
I would avoid Skycare, their reputation is quite well known and goes back to the early 90’s as Skyward, very shady, you can do better!

Was this same individual flying his own light twin, while working for a U.S bank and logging 8 hours of flying on a 32 minute leg between the same 2 airports for over a year?

No, owned a small northern business that required him to travel to smaller communities, instead of car he “flew” around, so he either didn’t fly as much as he said or he was really lucky he didn’t kill him self

[goldeneagle]

That's funny. My plane has adsb out and all my flights are on flight aware. I am the only person insured on it. I dunno. Hopefully it doesn't become an issue but that is some degree of 3rd party documentation there if it comes down to it. I'll just apply and see what happens I suppose.

I wouldn't be to worried about it. The only folks that will accuse you of parker pen time are those that would do that if they were in your position, and you dont want to work for/with them anyways. Go a step farther, show up for any interviews by flying in with that machine. Anybody in a position to hire relatively low time folks knows that nothing teaches good hands and feet like a short wheel base tail dragger hot rod. Showing up in the rv is almost as impressive as showing up in a Pitts.

[C-GGGQ]

If your choice is Skycare Navajo or I assume Air Bravo/ Keewatin pc12. Pc12 and never look back

[Prodriver]

Multi-crew and turbine time are more valuable in a time builder operation IMO. The PC-12 is amazing to fly and gain the necessary experience to move onto a light jet or regional.

I would have to agree with this comment, its a small airliner with similar systems.

[cdnavater]

The only problem with building time in you’re own aircraft is the inability to verify the time, pen whipped logbooks have been a common problem in the

Was this same individual flying his own light twin, while working for a U.S bank and logging 8 hours of flying on a 32 minute leg between the same 2 airports for over a year?

That's funny. My plane has adsb out and all my flights are on flight aware. I am the only person insured on it. I dunno. Hopefully it doesn't become an issue but that is some degree of 3rd party documentation there if it comes down to it. I'll just apply and see what happens I suppose.

Like I said, at 500 hours, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you show up with your ATPL signed off, all done in your own aircraft there would be some scepticism.
Good luck, I’m sure you’ll find something.