E2 new hires

[goingnowherefast]

How much time does one need to review MELs? If there's some super long convoluted operating procedure that needs to be reviewed, then there's gonna be a short delay. Knowing about the problem yesterday...before the plane even broke, isn't going to help. I can promise you I'm not looking at which planes have what MEL applied on my days off.

[8895]

How much time does one need to review MELs? If there's some super long convoluted operating procedure that needs to be reviewed, then there's gonna be a short delay. Knowing about the problem yesterday...before the plane even broke, isn't going to help. I can promise you I'm not looking at which planes have what MEL applied on my days off.

No one said they’re keeping tabs on the fleet on days off, but sure? Lol if Porter wants to play with the big boys in the industry they should act like it. Beyond me why pilots would advocate for a policy like this unless you’re a former ACPA rep with an eat your young mentality. Hopefully no one on the FOAG agrees with this.

[goingnowherefast]

Every pilot should have an iPad, I didn't mean to imply that they shouldn't. Online training at the very minimum. It's pretty presumptuous to ask someone to use their personal devices for company training.
Checking MELs was just a terrible excuse to ask for an iPad.

[cjp]

How much time does one need to review MELs? If there's some super long convoluted operating procedure that needs to be reviewed, then there's gonna be a short delay. Knowing about the problem yesterday...before the plane even broke, isn't going to help. I can promise you I'm not looking at which planes have what MEL applied on my days off.

No one said they’re keeping tabs on the fleet on days off, but sure? Lol if Porter wants to play with the big boys in the industry they should act like it. Beyond me why pilots would advocate for a policy like this unless you’re a former ACPA rep with an eat your young mentality. Hopefully no one on the FOAG agrees with this.

The FOAG I'm sure has other priorities beyond getting FOs iPads - at least I hope they do. It would be cost/benefit analysis by Flight Ops management to determine whether FOs get them and at no point should the FOAG be wasting capital trying to organize them - their focus should be on salary, per diems, retirement benefits, days off...you know - the important things.

As a Captain - it's more work for me to hotspot the iPad than it is to verify the weather on my phone. I have a suite of free to use apps that I used at a previous company, and they provide me all the same information I need to fly - the iPad for me is a clunkier version of what I have access to from the moment I wake up. The only thing that is useful on the iPad is access to the OFP (MELs), which I'm lucky to get an hour ahead of show as the day to day is so dynamic.

[flyingpilot]

it's not just about checking MELs. as a pilot I assume you would want to have easy and quick access to any document at any time, such as FOM, AOM, etc. and so much more. Even being able to review the flight plan ahead of time, even if it's 30 minutes before you report for duty. How can you do all that if the company doesn't provide you with a device. I don't think it should be an expectation that we can use our smartphones for all these tasks, unless the company pays me to buy a smartphone and use it for work, then yes, other wise my smartphone is my own personal device for personal use only. Its just very strange that the company doesn't provide Ipads to First Officers. I don't think I know of any company that doesn't provide Ipads to its pilots.

[withaflash]

Ideal would be to scrap aircraft iPads and issue each pilot with their own. You show up with iPad already set up, logged into iLean and WSI etc. Could shave off 5 valuable minutes towards OTP. Aircraft / maintenance / CSR could have a few spare for backup incase you left yours at home.

[cjp]

it's not just about checking MELs. as a pilot I assume you would want to have easy and quick access to any document at any time, such as FOM, AOM, etc. and so much more. Even being able to review the flight plan ahead of time, even if it's 30 minutes before you report for duty. How can you do all that if the company doesn't provide you with a device. I don't think it should be an expectation that we can use our smartphones for all these tasks, unless the company pays me to buy a smartphone and use it for work, then yes, other wise my smartphone is my own personal device for personal use only. Its just very strange that the company doesn't provide Ipads to First Officers. I don't think I know of any company that doesn't provide Ipads to its pilots.

It's a good discussion and one I'm sure the Flight Ops Managers are assessing closely as we grow.

I'm of the belief - and you can sleep well knowing I do not affect this decision in the slightest - have a monitored content locker available for secured access and get rid of all the iPads except for the ones inside the aircraft. Personal iPads are not necessary - except for the times where you want to do a gate briefing when an aircraft is late inbound - which you can do if everyone got an OFP pushed to their emails as a PDF. And yes, everyone has a smartphone that they've purchased for personal and company use cause you likely have that number associated with your company contact information so you can pickup the OT and draft 3 minutes after its issued. So this business of 'the company had better pay me to use my smartphone for work' is a little dry. I'd certainly like to see a stipend for phone use, as that is what I've been accustomed to in the past, but the deals they've organized with various Canadian telecoms have made it inexpensive. Again, I'd rather keep seeing growth in salary, time off and retirement benefits.

Some companies do only have crew iPads, and the threat is crews forgetting it, or failing to keep it up to date and it's a big problem. The aircraft iPads are monitored, and updated regularly. Yes, it's a pain signing in with the 2 factor authentication - but I highly doubt it's as dramatic as having any affect on actual OTP. That and the aircraft iPads have cellular plans associated with them to keep us connected. Imagine trying to hotspot a personal ipad in a country you don't have service in. Also trusting CSRs to maintain an adequate supply of up to date iPads is highly unrealistic. Leaving it in the crew room would be setting them up for being stolen or not being returned.

I get everyone wants an iPad, my response is make the company material more easily accessible, including OFP's - remove the Captain iPads, and keep the aircraft iPads in better condition. I think that would solve all the issues, and you wouldn't have to be responsible for a bulky iPad.

[cdnavater]

it's not just about checking MELs. as a pilot I assume you would want to have easy and quick access to any document at any time, such as FOM, AOM, etc. and so much more. Even being able to review the flight plan ahead of time, even if it's 30 minutes before you report for duty. How can you do all that if the company doesn't provide you with a device. I don't think it should be an expectation that we can use our smartphones for all these tasks, unless the company pays me to buy a smartphone and use it for work, then yes, other wise my smartphone is my own personal device for personal use only. Its just very strange that the company doesn't provide Ipads to First Officers. I don't think I know of any company that doesn't provide Ipads to its pilots.

It's a good discussion and one I'm sure the Flight Ops Managers are assessing closely as we grow.

I'm of the belief - and you can sleep well knowing I do not affect this decision in the slightest - have a monitored content locker available for secured access and get rid of all the iPads except for the ones inside the aircraft. Personal iPads are not necessary - except for the times where you want to do a gate briefing when an aircraft is late inbound - which you can do if everyone got an OFP pushed to their emails as a PDF. And yes, everyone has a smartphone that they've purchased for personal and company use cause you likely have that number associated with your company contact information so you can pickup the OT and draft 3 minutes after its issued. So this business of 'the company had better pay me to use my smartphone for work' is a little dry. I'd certainly like to see a stipend for phone use, as that is what I've been accustomed to in the past, but the deals they've organized with various Canadian telecoms have made it inexpensive. Again, I'd rather keep seeing growth in salary, time off and retirement benefits.

Some companies do only have crew iPads, and the threat is crews forgetting it, or failing to keep it up to date and it's a big problem. The aircraft iPads are monitored, and updated regularly. Yes, it's a pain signing in with the 2 factor authentication - but I highly doubt it's as dramatic as having any affect on actual OTP. That and the aircraft iPads have cellular plans associated with them to keep us connected. Imagine trying to hotspot a personal ipad in a country you don't have service in. Also trusting CSRs to maintain an adequate supply of up to date iPads is highly unrealistic. Leaving it in the crew room would be setting them up for being stolen or not being returned.

I get everyone wants an iPad, my response is make the company material more easily accessible, including OFP's - remove the Captain iPads, and keep the aircraft iPads in better condition. I think that would solve all the issues, and you wouldn't have to be responsible for a bulky iPad.

Company iPads are monitored, they know if you’ve updated it, any time we get an email about a critical update at a certain date, shortly before that another email goes out about not everyone being up to date.
As for your “bulky iPad” comment, are you serious, guess you weren’t flying when we had to carry around 30 pounds of Jepps and company manuals in paper form. I have had a few flight bags with saggy bottoms to replace over the years.
As for using a personal device for company use, not unless they pay for it or it benefits me and only me. If I’m out of base in the US or anywhere really, even though I personally have a US plan for data and calling unless I’m trying to get home on my last leg, it’s ACARS or on the frequency even if it could be faster to just call. Not a chance, we offered them to supplement our data and they turned it down, now we have SIM cards in our company provided iPads for all pilots.

[nohojob]

Having 1 ipad for each FCM shouldn't be a discussion.
Where I work, we have everything on it from weight and balance/performance OFP, FOM FCOM etc...
And yes, it's nice to have a look at the flight plan and wx associated/Notam while you ride the shuttle to the terminal.
It also nice at home to check a particular airport beforehand.
And no, updating the various apps is a none issue.

[CaptDukeNukem]

so is there an expectation that First officers are supposed to have an ipad of their own?? and what happens if you don't have one??

I’m an E2 FO. You can login to get the OFP on your phone, which is what I do. Haven’t found a way to get as detailed weather as I’d like in a simple way like you can on the company iPads.

In all seriousness though, it’s embarrassing that FO’s at this company don’t have an iPad of their own given to them for use. Someone has actually SMS’d this already, rightfully so. Seems like an unnecessary penny pinch by the company just to save a few bucks. From what I’ve seen a lot of pilots here are unaware that you can get the OFP through your web browser, so I can only imagine how many FO’s show up at a tail without seeing the grocery list of MEL’s before hand. For a company that touts itself as being high quality it really is a bush league policy.

There are so many resources other than Jepp or WSI to get detailed enroute forecasting. Between NOC, and apps like Windy or websites like Skyvector (or the many other resources out there), the iPads aren't necessary. Everything else can be downloaded on FOA.

Half the time we don't get OFPs issued until the 11th hour, so with or without an iPad it's still a surprise when it comes to MELs. I could probably recite the common MELs and be right 90% of the time lol.

Honestly, way too much whinning about something so insignificant. If I could, I'd donate you mine if I didn't need it for Pelesys.

Coffee maker, side panel trim, closet latch. I know them too lol

Generally the grocery list is from a trigger happy purser who had a bad day. Maintenance will ground test serviceable in 120 days and it’ll be cleared.

[cjp]

it's not just about checking MELs. as a pilot I assume you would want to have easy and quick access to any document at any time, such as FOM, AOM, etc. and so much more. Even being able to review the flight plan ahead of time, even if it's 30 minutes before you report for duty. How can you do all that if the company doesn't provide you with a device. I don't think it should be an expectation that we can use our smartphones for all these tasks, unless the company pays me to buy a smartphone and use it for work, then yes, other wise my smartphone is my own personal device for personal use only. Its just very strange that the company doesn't provide Ipads to First Officers. I don't think I know of any company that doesn't provide Ipads to its pilots.

It's a good discussion and one I'm sure the Flight Ops Managers are assessing closely as we grow.

I'm of the belief - and you can sleep well knowing I do not affect this decision in the slightest - have a monitored content locker available for secured access and get rid of all the iPads except for the ones inside the aircraft. Personal iPads are not necessary - except for the times where you want to do a gate briefing when an aircraft is late inbound - which you can do if everyone got an OFP pushed to their emails as a PDF. And yes, everyone has a smartphone that they've purchased for personal and company use cause you likely have that number associated with your company contact information so you can pickup the OT and draft 3 minutes after its issued. So this business of 'the company had better pay me to use my smartphone for work' is a little dry. I'd certainly like to see a stipend for phone use, as that is what I've been accustomed to in the past, but the deals they've organized with various Canadian telecoms have made it inexpensive. Again, I'd rather keep seeing growth in salary, time off and retirement benefits.

Some companies do only have crew iPads, and the threat is crews forgetting it, or failing to keep it up to date and it's a big problem. The aircraft iPads are monitored, and updated regularly. Yes, it's a pain signing in with the 2 factor authentication - but I highly doubt it's as dramatic as having any affect on actual OTP. That and the aircraft iPads have cellular plans associated with them to keep us connected. Imagine trying to hotspot a personal ipad in a country you don't have service in. Also trusting CSRs to maintain an adequate supply of up to date iPads is highly unrealistic. Leaving it in the crew room would be setting them up for being stolen or not being returned.

I get everyone wants an iPad, my response is make the company material more easily accessible, including OFP's - remove the Captain iPads, and keep the aircraft iPads in better condition. I think that would solve all the issues, and you wouldn't have to be responsible for a bulky iPad.

Company iPads are monitored, they know if you’ve updated it, any time we get an email about a critical update at a certain date, shortly before that another email goes out about not everyone being up to date.
As for your “bulky iPad” comment, are you serious, guess you weren’t flying when we had to carry around 30 pounds of Jepps and company manuals in paper form. I have had a few flight bags with saggy bottoms to replace over the years.
As for using a personal device for company use, not unless they pay for it or it benefits me and only me. If I’m out of base in the US or anywhere really, even though I personally have a US plan for data and calling unless I’m trying to get home on my last leg, it’s ACARS or on the frequency even if it could be faster to just call. Not a chance, we offered them to supplement our data and they turned it down, now we have SIM cards in our company provided iPads for all pilots.

You work for Jazz; different company, different luggage and different management - also unionized. I've thankfully never had to lug around Jepps; either had dedicated aircraft documents or iPad solution. That said, company has 2 dedicated aircraft iPads with cellular.

Again, it's an unpopular opinion apparently, but I don't feel the iPads add a ton of value regarding access at home.

It'll likely go the way of everyone has an iPad, which will be great cause then no one will be feel shorted on shared information.

[CaptDukeNukem]

It's a good discussion and one I'm sure the Flight Ops Managers are assessing closely as we grow.

I'm of the belief - and you can sleep well knowing I do not affect this decision in the slightest - have a monitored content locker available for secured access and get rid of all the iPads except for the ones inside the aircraft. Personal iPads are not necessary - except for the times where you want to do a gate briefing when an aircraft is late inbound - which you can do if everyone got an OFP pushed to their emails as a PDF. And yes, everyone has a smartphone that they've purchased for personal and company use cause you likely have that number associated with your company contact information so you can pickup the OT and draft 3 minutes after its issued. So this business of 'the company had better pay me to use my smartphone for work' is a little dry. I'd certainly like to see a stipend for phone use, as that is what I've been accustomed to in the past, but the deals they've organized with various Canadian telecoms have made it inexpensive. Again, I'd rather keep seeing growth in salary, time off and retirement benefits.

Some companies do only have crew iPads, and the threat is crews forgetting it, or failing to keep it up to date and it's a big problem. The aircraft iPads are monitored, and updated regularly. Yes, it's a pain signing in with the 2 factor authentication - but I highly doubt it's as dramatic as having any affect on actual OTP. That and the aircraft iPads have cellular plans associated with them to keep us connected. Imagine trying to hotspot a personal ipad in a country you don't have service in. Also trusting CSRs to maintain an adequate supply of up to date iPads is highly unrealistic. Leaving it in the crew room would be setting them up for being stolen or not being returned.

I get everyone wants an iPad, my response is make the company material more easily accessible, including OFP's - remove the Captain iPads, and keep the aircraft iPads in better condition. I think that would solve all the issues, and you wouldn't have to be responsible for a bulky iPad.

Company iPads are monitored, they know if you’ve updated it, any time we get an email about a critical update at a certain date, shortly before that another email goes out about not everyone being up to date.
As for your “bulky iPad” comment, are you serious, guess you weren’t flying when we had to carry around 30 pounds of Jepps and company manuals in paper form. I have had a few flight bags with saggy bottoms to replace over the years.
As for using a personal device for company use, not unless they pay for it or it benefits me and only me. If I’m out of base in the US or anywhere really, even though I personally have a US plan for data and calling unless I’m trying to get home on my last leg, it’s ACARS or on the frequency even if it could be faster to just call. Not a chance, we offered them to supplement our data and they turned it down, now we have SIM cards in our company provided iPads for all pilots.

You work for Jazz; different company, different luggage and different management - also unionized. I've thankfully never had to lug around Jepps; either had dedicated aircraft documents or iPad solution. That said, company has 2 dedicated aircraft iPads with cellular.

Again, it's an unpopular opinion apparently, but I don't feel the iPads add a ton of value regarding access at home.

It'll likely go the way of everyone has an iPad, which will be great cause then no one will be feel shorted on shared information.

I’m with you on this one. The company iPad given to pilots is a paper weight. It’s heavily locked down, can’t do shit on it. I can easily check the weather faster on my phone and look at the flight plan at the gate.

[flyingpilot]

As a new hire, would you be able to choose YVR base or do you start out of YYZ first? what would the routes look like if based out of YVR?
Thank you for the answers.

[lowoleo22]

As a new hire, would you be able to choose YVR base or do you start out of YYZ first? what would the routes look like if based out of YVR?
Thank you for the answers.

The goal for YVR is 17 CA's and 17 FO's. The bidding is only open now so we don't know if they will staff each of those positions or what will be available until the bidding closes. If YVR is unavailable you will have to select another base until a spot opens up for you. No routes have been formally announced from YVR so we don't know what those will look like yet either.

[flyingpilot]

Any information on requirements for internal upgrades, and the number of positions available every month? thanks

[braaap Braap]

Any information on requirements for internal upgrades, and the number of positions available every month? thanks

Upgrade program not yet in place. Being worked on. 1 person been awarded an upgrade with a tbd class date.

[flyingpilot]

is it true that the base pay for 1st year FO after deductions is around $2000 per paycheck?

[cjp]

It's true, roughly 2100 after tax semi monthly on min guarantee on the Q400, 2600 roughly on the E2.

A first year Q400 FO is making more than a 1st year narrow or widebody FO at big Red. Crazy times.

A first year E2 FO is making more than a 3nd year narrow or widebody FO at big Red, and stays above until widebody formula.

Can't wait until this WCC comes to be at AC so we can finally have some salary competition.

[flyingpilot]

I was shown a paystub by someone who just started on the E2 and their base paycheck was just under 2100 because of deductions like insurance? is it normally around 2600??

[Chaxterium]

I was shown a paystub by someone who just started on the E2 and their base paycheck was just under 2100 because of deductions like insurance? is it normally around 2600??

Were they on the line yet? The difference could be per diems.

[cjp]

I was shown a paystub by someone who just started on the E2 and their base paycheck was just under 2100 because of deductions like insurance? is it normally around 2600??

Could be the initial EI and CPP being yanked off. Paycheques are lower at the start of the year. If they're on the line they are taking home a lot more than 2100 a paycheque x 2 a month.