Is it that bad at AC for pilots? I mean food stamp bad!

[Apestogetherstrong]

I have spoken to a couple of AC pilots. They are working 16-18 days a month. A lot of reserve and poor schedules. This is a summary of their expenses.

Take home pay is $3300
Average rent is $2100
Utilities: $150
Cell phone $50
Auto insurance: $200
Gas: $150
Gym membership: $50
Household grocery:$500 for one person

Now this totals up to $3300

The ones who have a family are incurring huge amounts of debt.
They tell me that If you are married or have kids, it is impossible to provide for anybody else. You cannot afford a mortgage. You cannot pay for travel. You cannot afford any kids. You cannot afford to incur any further debt. They are saying think carefully before joining Flat 4 year job. If you have a family, I feel for you. This is just the summary of what you can expect.

After hearing his, at least for me Porter provides a better lifestyle option. If there are any AC pilots who have a different opinion, please feel free to share. I’m not going to leave my $170k job to live below poverty line.

[Vanguard]

It is bad.

The guys who made the sacrifice now tho will reap the benefits.

Upgrade times here will outpace everything by the 2028-2030s when retirements hit record numbers.

170k now is good but your future at AC is still much better especially once the contract gets settled. Most Jr captain was hired Nov 2022 and upgrade times are decreasing still.

Your numbers above are correct, most guys I fly with are taking on huge amounts of debt at this time. End of the day it’s all about seniority too. A lot of people will want to come to AC soon once we get a new contract but with the mass hiring continuing and a lot of younger people hired already you’ll be waiting in line for the next wave.

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently. With the quality of life demands in the new contract there will be more pilots needed.


So question is 170k now or your overall career earnings? Very personal decision.

Flat pay needs to be destroyed but your future is better here always and your career earnings are much higher than Porter or WJ. It’s not very comparable unfortunately.

[Upgradeable]

It is bad.

The guys who made the sacrifice now tho will reap the benefits.

Upgrade times here will outpace everything by the 2028-2030s when retirements hit record numbers.

170k now is good but your future at AC is still much better especially once the contract gets settled. Most Jr captain was hired Nov 2022 and upgrade times are decreasing still.

Your numbers above are correct, most guys I fly with are taking on huge amounts of debt at this time. End of the day it’s all about seniority too. A lot of people will want to come to AC soon once we get a new contract but with the mass hiring continuing and a lot of younger people hired already you’ll be waiting in line for the next wave.

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently. With the quality of life demands in the new contract there will be more pilots needed.


So question is 170k now or your overall career earnings? Very personal decision.

Vanguard, what age would you consider young when it comes to pilots just joining AC?

[Vanguard]

If you’re in your 30s — you’ll have a great career with great pension.

If you’re younger you’re gonna do even better. Just avoid having ex wives and paying alimony.

If you come in your 40s and do 25yrs — you’ll still have a decent career with a great pension.

If you’re in your 50s — 15yrs will bring you to a decent narrow body career at the end with a decent pension.

[Upgradeable]

[ZBBYLW]

Go to AC as soon as you can IF you want to come here.

Waiting for the contract to drop and then coming will have hundreds of people ahead of you.

Porter and WestJet are likely better places at the moment, but I imagine that will change soon.

Good luck!

[goingnowherefast]

Porter and WJ will also react to the AC contract changes. When does the current WJ contract expire? It can also be amended by LOU.

I'm certainly not taking on debt to feed my family while commuting in the hopes that the new contract is decent. Also with a management team that holds their employees in such low regard.

I wish the best to those flying for AC, but it won't be me unless this is truly a world class contract. Copy and paste United, and converted to CAD.

There's a couple of my friends at AC who did take that gamble and plan to quit if the contract doesn't meet their expectations.

[cdnavater]

Porter and WJ will also react to the AC contract changes. When does the current WJ contract expire? It can also be amended by LOU.

I'm certainly not taking on debt to feed my family while commuting in the hopes that the new contract is decent. Also with a management team that holds their employees in such low regard.

I wish the best to those flying for AC, but it won't be me unless this is truly a world class contract. Copy and paste United, and converted to CAD.

There's a couple of my friends at AC who did take that gamble and plan to quit if the contract doesn't meet their expectations.

I’m sorry but a comment on how management holds the employees in such low regard can literally be placed as a comment on any airline in Canada. How did WJ management thank you for you employment, threats and demeaning emails. How are they dealing with all other groups.
Even Porter, they pay well but the quality of life doesn’t seem great according to some of their pilots, all waiting for the growing pains to stop.
We are all just cogs and they wouldn’t hesitate to replace us with a single pilot cockpit or drone pilots flying multiple missions per shift if it could be approved.

[dumpsterfire]

It is bad.

The guys who made the sacrifice now tho will reap the benefits.

Upgrade times here will outpace everything by the 2028-2030s when retirements hit record numbers.

170k now is good but your future at AC is still much better especially once the contract gets settled. Most Jr captain was hired Nov 2022 and upgrade times are decreasing still.

Your numbers above are correct, most guys I fly with are taking on huge amounts of debt at this time. End of the day it’s all about seniority too. A lot of people will want to come to AC soon once we get a new contract but with the mass hiring continuing and a lot of younger people hired already you’ll be waiting in line for the next wave.

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently. With the quality of life demands in the new contract there will be more pilots needed.


So question is 170k now or your overall career earnings? Very personal decision.

Flat pay needs to be destroyed but your future is better here always and your career earnings are much higher than Porter or WJ. It’s not very comparable unfortunately.

ACPA was working very hard to mark Air Canada a very marginal place to work as a pilot

And now Air Canada will work even harder to keep it that way

Come here with hopes for more but be ready to burn this place down. Getting a proper contract won't be easy

[Bede]

Flat pay needs to be destroyed but your future is better here always and your career earnings are much higher than Porter or WJ. It’s not very comparable unfortunately.

Please elaborate.

[Vanguard]

Very easy.

Once you go widebody CA — you can’t compare a 737/E192 pay scale,

Your career earnings go up exponentially. A WB upgrade on the 767 has gone as low as 5yrs until the reduced and A330 is about 10-12yrs right now.



Long term AC is the best career path in Canada.


Also as far as the comment on management team and disregard — Porter pilots are delusional if they think they won’t need a union at some point and proper representation.

[Fanblade]

Flat pay needs to be destroyed but your future is better here always and your career earnings are much higher than Porter or WJ. It’s not very comparable unfortunately.

Please elaborate.

Vanguard,

WestJet has the 787. WJ pays better than AC at the moment. We both have DC pensions.

The retirements at AC are not high. They are normal.

Assuming the average career at AC is 30-35 year. Then one would expect an average of 3% retirement per year. 3% of 5000 is 150/year.

At WestJet the same rate of retirement would be 45/ year.

As it stands this moment your statement about career earnings is suspect. On the other hand if you have already costed in a WCC?

This is going to be the fight of our careers. AC management has no intention to give us the pay raises we are seeking. They have no intention of giving us back our bankruptcy and FOS losses.

They believe they are entitled to cheap pilot labor because this is Canada.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Very easy.

Once you go widebody CA — you can’t compare a 737/E192 pay scale,

Your career earnings go up exponentially. A WB upgrade on the 767 has gone as low as 5yrs until the reduced and A330 is about 10-12yrs right now.



Long term AC is the best career path in Canada.


Also as far as the comment on management team and disregard — Porter pilots are delusional if they think they won’t need a union at some point and proper representation.

Fly the flag. It’s DA best. I’m surprised they don’t play the national anthem prior to push back.

[crystalpizza]

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently.

Source?

[Vanguard]

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently.

Source?

Failed MOA had these numbers published in the document or maybe the ACPA supporting documents but it was there.

[altiplano]

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently.

Source?

There are no 2026 'official numbers."

Last Crew Requirement Bulletin was 5517 required on a one year forward looking basis.

Based on that bulletin we're 5004 active on property as of end of March.

With the bleak economic picture in this country, the fact that we are now within a few hundred of that number, and the shortage of experienced pilots willing to darken AC's door, I would expect that AC suspends or at least further slows pilot hiring in the months ahead. Besides AC have always ran understaffed by 1000 pilots give or take even when we were only 2500 pilots. This is a square peg/round hole kinda management team.

Plus with continuing delays on Boeing/Airbus deliveries, continuing 220 issues, and a lack of suitable airframes available we will see additional downward pressure on growth. We are seeing United and Southwest pause their present hiring waves and revising growth forecasts on that basis, we have seen Spirit lay off due to stalled deliveries. AC management is facing those same issues on a broader industry scale and more due to management's poor decisions during and after the pandemic and now this contract crisis of their own making.

[Turboprops]

It is bad.

The guys who made the sacrifice now tho will reap the benefits.

Upgrade times here will outpace everything by the 2028-2030s when retirements hit record numbers.

170k now is good but your future at AC is still much better especially once the contract gets settled. Most Jr captain was hired Nov 2022 and upgrade times are decreasing still.

Your numbers above are correct, most guys I fly with are taking on huge amounts of debt at this time. End of the day it’s all about seniority too. A lot of people will want to come to AC soon once we get a new contract but with the mass hiring continuing and a lot of younger people hired already you’ll be waiting in line for the next wave.

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently. With the quality of life demands in the new contract there will be more pilots needed.


So question is 170k now or your overall career earnings? Very personal decision.

Flat pay needs to be destroyed but your future is better here always and your career earnings are much higher than Porter or WJ. It’s not very comparable unfortunately.

The 2 year upgrade at AC is basically YYZ on the 220 no?
Nov 2022 hire is able to upgrade because AC hired 1500-2000 pilots after them. You think AC’s hiring 2000 in the next 2 years? I guess time will tell, but AC cancelled their March ground school, and one gs in Apr i believe only had 18 new hires.
Sure it’s due to the low starting pay, but when’s that getting fixed? By the end of the year hopefully?
As another poster said, just look at the States and see how many majors have reduced/stopped hiring. That post COVID hiring spree is gone

[Bede]

Very easy.

Once you go widebody CA — you can’t compare a 737/E192 pay scale,

Your career earnings go up exponentially. A WB upgrade on the 767 has gone as low as 5yrs until the reduced and A330 is about 10-12yrs right now.

Long term AC is the best career path in Canada.

I think that's a bit of the problem. AC should be the highest paying job in the country, but it's not. Trust me, I've crunched the numbers. Don't buy into management's line that it's the best paying flying.

[Fanblade]

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently.

Source?

Failed MOA had these numbers published in the document or maybe the ACPA supporting documents but it was there.

We are in negotiations. Air Canada loves to sell expansion in lou of pay increases.

I mean it’s worked before. You're going to be a Captain. That’s your raise.

They are worse than a used timeshare salesman.

Take it all with a grain of salt.

[digits_]

Do most people on food stamps pay 50 dollars a month to go to a gym?

[Flyboy736]

2026 official numbers were 6500 pilots. This number has already increased by 500 recently.

Source?

There are no 2026 'official numbers."

Last Crew Requirement Bulletin was 5517 required on a one year forward looking basis.

Based on that bulletin we're 5004 active on property as of end of March.

With the bleak economic picture in this country, the fact that we are now within a few hundred of that number, and the shortage of experienced pilots willing to darken AC's door, I would expect that AC suspends or at least further slows pilot hiring in the months ahead. Besides AC have always ran understaffed by 1000 pilots give or take even when we were only 2500 pilots. This is a square peg/round hole kinda management team.

Plus with continuing delays on Boeing/Airbus deliveries, continuing 220 issues, and a lack of suitable airframes available we will see additional downward pressure on growth. We are seeing United and Southwest pause their present hiring waves and revising growth forecasts on that basis, we have seen Spirit lay off due to stalled deliveries. AC management is facing those same issues on a broader industry scale and more due to management's poor decisions during and after the pandemic and now this contract crisis of their own making.

Thank you. Whoever claimed that's official should be ashamed for making it up. 6500 is probably a best case scenario where the economy is rocking and they don't retire the 330/772 that upper management said will be phased out with the 18 787-10 orders. Given how great AC was at predicting cargo (at one point Murray said they wanted 22 cargo fins) I wouldn't be holding my career on a gamble of fantasy.


For the upper post regarding 3% or 150/year retirement estimates- I'd hazard a guess it is reasonable. With a seniority number in the 4800's I'm looking at mandatory retirement of 70ish for the next few years before a steady downward decline of 100-120ish all according to the ACPA calculator.) I only have one year of actual data but I moved up 118 spots when last year had 80 mandatory retirements although some was due to new hires senior to me quitting as opposed to all retirements.

[Ash Ketchum]

It's pretty bad, I'm supporting my family off of a HELOC and very quickly running out of money.

[Canpilot7]

Very easy.

Once you go widebody CA — you can’t compare a 737/E192 pay scale,

Your career earnings go up exponentially. A WB upgrade on the 767 has gone as low as 5yrs until the reduced and A330 is about 10-12yrs right now.



Long term AC is the best career path in Canada.


Also as far as the comment on management team and disregard — Porter pilots are delusional if they think they won’t need a union at some point and proper representation.

True for the people that took those upgrades, but upgrade times for anyone hired now at AC are going to skyrocket compared to what they were prior to the hiring boom. Comparing thousands of pilots in a couple years vs a couple hundred..... the progress slows fast.

AC now has the young seniority list problem that WestJet had the past decade as a newer company.

[digits_]

AC now has the young seniority list problem that WestJet had the past decade as a newer company.

Translation: by the time you reach the fat paychecks they will have eroded soo much (likely not have kept up with inflation) the 4 years flat pay may not have been worth it?

[newlygrounded]

What use is a "big" pay cheque 15 years from now when you miss the boat on investments, housing and don't own anything