VP Flight Ops appeals to pilots directly in bulletin

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I was confused by his message until I realized he's appealing to his ACPA friends and trying to sow dissent. How many of the old guard are left? Is this a valid tactic or grasping at straws?

[hithere]

Care to share it?

[RippleRock]

It's a waste of the paper it was written on. Not worth repeating at all.

This guy blew all trust with the Cargo -10% MOU and the "reach past" the union to sell it directly to us. Same "reach past" the union again.

They think no one remembers.


My opinion.

[JustaCanadian]

Lots of companies today make slogans and apparently take pride in diversity and how they make everyone rise up. Don't listen to the words they say, look at the actions they take.

Ask yourself, do you work at an airline that has the lowest paid black 737 pilot in the world? Rise higher.

Do you work at an airline with the lowest paid female 787 pilot in the world? Win as one.

You can do all the talk you want. But just saying rise higher doesn't give the black pilot more time with his kids. Saying win as one doesn't pay for the female pilots mortgage.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I'm starting to think diversity hiring is just a way to get employees that are more likely to put up with crap.

[JHR]

I'm starting to think diversity hiring is just a way to get employees that are more likely to put up with crap.

I would wager 95% of flat pay pilots are white males. Sounds like race/sex have nothing to do with being willing to take it up the a$$ while bringing the whole industry down with you.

[Inverted2]

Everyone’s on the DEI bandwagon right now.

[JustaCanadian]

I actually appreciate working with a diverse group. I don't think it's helpful to vilify and divide. Some of the greatest leaders, captains, union stewards at airlines are women and "minorities". I use quotations as I don't buy the bulls shit, we are all just people. We don't need words to divide us.

I think we just need to recognize that any corporate push for diversity is 100% for its financial benefit. Same playbook as JT... Look how he can touch women and see things differently. Look at JWR. Lots of talk, but actions say otherwise.

Don't lose sight at the propaganda machine. AC pilots aren't rising higer or winning as one until they have a WCC.

[lownslow]

Care to share it?

Ten paragraphs of “I am a generous god” then ending on “Stop talking to each other about contract things… for safety.”

[eyebrow737]

I think we just need to recognize that any corporate push for diversity is 100% for its financial benefit. Same playbook as JT... Look how he can touch women and see things differently. Look at JWR. Lots of talk, but actions say otherwise.
.

Nail
------
Head

Supply and demand in a nutshell. Increase your supply, keep your costs down and look good in the process

[RippleRock]

I actually appreciate working with a diverse group. I don't think it's helpful to vilify and divide. Some of the greatest leaders, captains, union stewards at airlines are women and "minorities". I use quotations as I don't buy the bulls shit, we are all just people. We don't need words to divide us.

I think we just need to recognize that any corporate push for diversity is 100% for its financial benefit. Same playbook as JT... Look how he can touch women and see things differently. Look at JWR. Lots of talk, but actions say otherwise.

Don't lose sight at the propaganda machine. AC pilots aren't rising higer or winning as one until they have a WCC.

How did this thread jump to DIVERSITY so fast??? WTF. Sooooo Canadian, and soo childish.

NEWSFLASH.......You're all equal here. No cares one fig where you came from, or what you look like. There are shitty pilots and great pilots or all colours and gender. WTF does that have to do with the letter Murray sent??? Seriously.


This thread is about how the Prez of Flt Ops is attempting to "end run" the entire pilot group by creating DIVISION amongst us. It's an attack on UNITY.


Not important to you? Make another thread about how racist or masoginistic pilots are if that's a even a "thing" here for you. I haven't met a real racist here in 24 years. Maybe you're looking too hard.

Jeeezuz.

[Blueontop]

I actually appreciate working with a diverse group. I don't think it's helpful to vilify and divide. Some of the greatest leaders, captains, union stewards at airlines are women and "minorities". I use quotations as I don't buy the bulls shit, we are all just people. We don't need words to divide us.

I think we just need to recognize that any corporate push for diversity is 100% for its financial benefit. Same playbook as JT... Look how he can touch women and see things differently. Look at JWR. Lots of talk, but actions say otherwise.

Don't lose sight at the propaganda machine. AC pilots aren't rising higer or winning as one until they have a WCC.

How did this thread jump to DIVERSITY so fast??? WTF. Sooooo Canadian, and soo childish.

NEWSFLASH.......You're all equal here. No cares one fig where you came from, or what you look like. There are shitty pilots and great pilots or all colours and gender. WTF does that have to do with the letter Murray sent??? Seriously.


This thread is about how the Prez of Flt Ops is attempting to "end run" the entire pilot group by creating DIVISION amongst us. It's an attack on UNITY.


Not important to you? Make another thread about how racist or masoginistic pilots are if that's a even a "thing" here for you. I haven't met a real racist here in 24 years. Maybe you're looking too hard.

Jeeezuz.

Double plus 1 good RR

Let’s keep our eye one the ball here people. Remember who the real enemy is and how they have zero respect for us. They believe we are weak and a simple memo is all that is needed to sow the division they are so desperately hoping for.

This letter was a Hail Mary from a truly nervous C-suite

[cjp]

I actually appreciate working with a diverse group. I don't think it's helpful to vilify and divide. Some of the greatest leaders, captains, union stewards at airlines are women and "minorities". I use quotations as I don't buy the bulls shit, we are all just people. We don't need words to divide us.

I think we just need to recognize that any corporate push for diversity is 100% for its financial benefit. Same playbook as JT... Look how he can touch women and see things differently. Look at JWR. Lots of talk, but actions say otherwise.

Don't lose sight at the propaganda machine. AC pilots aren't rising higer or winning as one until they have a WCC.

How did this thread jump to DIVERSITY so fast??? WTF. Sooooo Canadian, and soo childish.

NEWSFLASH.......You're all equal here. No cares one fig where you came from, or what you look like. There are shitty pilots and great pilots or all colours and gender. WTF does that have to do with the letter Murray sent??? Seriously.


This thread is about how the Prez of Flt Ops is attempting to "end run" the entire pilot group by creating DIVISION amongst us. It's an attack on UNITY.


Not important to you? Make another thread about how racist or masoginistic pilots are if that's a even a "thing" here for you. I haven't met a real racist here in 24 years. Maybe you're looking too hard.

Jeeezuz.

Double plus 1 good RR

Let’s keep our eye one the ball here people. Remember who the real enemy is and how they have zero respect for us. They believe we are weak and a simple memo is all that is needed to sow the division they are so desperately hoping for.

This letter was a Hail Mary from a truly nervous C-suite

I have no skin in the game when it comes to your negotiations, just an anxious Canadian pilot, working for the competition who is hoping you are all successful in reaching your WCC that you have been working towards. IF you win big, the industry wins big. Air Canada defines the WAWCON of the rest of the industry, and not the other way around.

If I were in your shoes, I would be advising that at this stage of the game, it's time to ignore the less than official comms channel from the managers and C-suite - send it straight to junk. Make sure your red ALPA lanyards are clean, and in clear view around your necks when you go to work. Avoid the draft pickup - fly your block and go home. Give your union the most ammunition possible so they can continue to provide you the wins you deserve. Make sure the former ACPA's reps are avoided on bids - everyone should have those former flakes on their do not pair list so as to avoid the poisonous communication and fearmongering they may spread.

The more you allow now to slide, the more you will lose in future.

These managers have been banking on easing their policies into the foundational cracks of your previous organization. It's time to signal back, the foundation is reinforced thanks to them showing your weaknesses, this time you will not crack.

The Canadian industry quite literally is relying on you to win big to make any progress going forward. Don't let them convince you, you are worth any less.

You got this, kick some ass.

[cjp]

.

[rookiepilot]

Watching all these stories, AC, Encore, I am as far from a union mindset as one could get — by why isn’t anyone willing to actually strike for a week?

Walk the line for a week, refuse to move one inch on a hardline negotiating position, refuse to even talk, then sit down for real.

You all seem to cave so easily. Bizzare to me.

[Blueontop]

Watching all these stories, AC, Encore, I am as far from a union mindset as one could get — by why isn’t anyone willing to actually strike for a week?

Walk the line for a week, refuse to move one inch on a hardline negotiating position, refuse to even talk, then sit down for real.

You all seem to cave so easily. Bizzare to me.

I totally agree with you rookie (which may be a first). I totally expect the AC pilots to talk the talk and actually walk the walk. Unless it’s a grand slam at the 11th hour. Which I do not expect at all

[altiplano]

Watching all these stories, AC, Encore, I am as far from a union mindset as one could get — by why isn’t anyone willing to actually strike for a week?

Walk the line for a week, refuse to move one inch on a hardline negotiating position, refuse to even talk, then sit down for real.

You all seem to cave so easily. Bizzare to me.

Air Canada Pilots aren't in a legal strike position. Yet.

We'll be on the picket line in September though unless the company gets a large attitude adjustment and accepts that we are taking back what was ours. I don't think that they will though. They need a change of culture and personnel first.

That bulletin is full of BS and an inaccurate portrayal of events from a management group that is desperate.

They thought we should have stayed in the old contract for it's benefits? What? 2% and a B-pass? ALPA offered that opportunity, staying in the deal, to them but it required immediate real wage uplift, they didn't even answer us.

Then ALPA gave notice to bargain and the company sat silent for over 6 months when we tried to engage. Silent that is until they threatened a lockout in January. Strom's bulletin seems to miss that part of it.

That's the reason we proposed mediation, to avoid a lockout and actually get some work done on this negotiation. But the company still stalls and complains. "It's too much work to negotiate a contract in good faith" "We only want to change 3 things" "Why won't you capitulate to our demands like the last guys"

They're going to find out in September.

[digits_]

Watching all these stories, AC, Encore, I am as far from a union mindset as one could get — by why isn’t anyone willing to actually strike for a week?

Walk the line for a week, refuse to move one inch on a hardline negotiating position, refuse to even talk, then sit down for real.

You all seem to cave so easily. Bizzare to me.

Air Canada Pilots aren't in a legal strike position. Yet.

We'll be on the picket line in September though unless the company gets a large attitude adjustment and accepts that we are taking back what was ours. I don't think that they will though. They need a change of culture and personnel first.

That bulletin is full of BS and an inaccurate portrayal of events from a management group that is desperate.

They thought we should have stayed in the old contract for it's benefits? What? 2% and a B-pass? ALPA offered that opportunity, staying in the deal, to them but it required immediate real wage uplift, they didn't even answer us.

Then ALPA gave notice to bargain and the company sat silent for over 6 months when we tried to engage. Silent that is until they threatened a lockout in January. Strom's bulletin seems to miss that part of it.

That's the reason we proposed mediation, to avoid a lockout and actually get some work done on this negotiation. But the company still stalls and complains. "It's too much work to negotiate a contract in good faith" "We only want to change 3 things" "Why won't you capitulate to our demands like the last guys"

They're going to find out in September.

Why did ALPA propose mediation and not attempt a strike sooner? If the company isn't cooperative, won't mediation just delay things further?

[rookiepilot]

Watching all these stories, AC, Encore, I am as far from a union mindset as one could get — by why isn’t anyone willing to actually strike for a week?

Walk the line for a week, refuse to move one inch on a hardline negotiating position, refuse to even talk, then sit down for real.

You all seem to cave so easily. Bizzare to me.

I totally agree with you rookie (which may be a first). I totally expect the AC pilots to talk the talk and actually walk the walk. Unless it’s a grand slam at the 11th hour. Which I do not expect at all

Let me guess, total shot in the dark, the whole negotiation committee is made up of senior captains at or near the top of the pay scale?

https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal ... r-own-kind

[throwawaycorporate]

Why did ALPA propose mediation and not attempt a strike sooner? If the company isn't cooperative, won't mediation just delay things further?

I'm on the outside of this negotiation but it's showing good faith, patience and a professional attitude.

If rushed into a strike position, there is always the risk of arbitration. Not all arbitrators are familiar with pilot contract language. There would be gains no doubt, but many articles could be fumbled and result in a less desirable outcome for the pilots, and the company.

The mediation period gives the company and pilots a meeting schedule to hopefully agree or at least get closer on as many of the contract articles as possible. Starting with the the little articles like uniforms and leaving the big ones like pay until the end. It gives the opportunity to create some momentum.

I see 2 main benefits of the mediation period:
1 - In the event of a future strike and potential arbitration, an arbitrator will likely not reopen the previously agreed upon articles from the mediation period. This gives less material to be fumbled
2 - If a strike seems likely, the government may take consideration of Kaplans opinion on how the mediation period went. Were the pilots unprofessional or unreasonable? Was the company unprofessional and unreasonable? It is my understanding that Kaplan was impressed with ALPA during the process, which should be favourable.

Again I have no relation to this, but as a pilot in Canada hope to benefit with the lift in conditions that will ripple through the entire industry.

[Canadaflyer46]

ALPA are playing the game right. Following the process. It will reflect favourably on them when it comes to strike/lockout, which it inevitably will.
Comparisons with Encore should be avoided though, they were a bunch of scared kids who had no business bargaining with an airline and sending their pilots threatening emails seemingly written for them by management.
It’s frustrating having to wait, but ALPA is crossing the Ts and dotting the Is.
We’re all behind you. Hold the line.

[Montroyal]

Murray is full of more shit than a 16 hrs flight returning from Mumbai

It's incredible anyone listens to him

"Recalls in 2023"

[rudder]

Notwithstanding the engine and delivery issues, it was surprising to see a reduction in required positions in the bid.

[CPU2000]

Notwithstanding the engine and delivery issues, it was surprising to see a reduction in required positions in the bid.

Lol.. you're serious?

It's the most classic union busting technique: threaten to take work away

Doesn't matter the industry, it's the same old company play

Luckily, the pilot group & ALPA are not going to fall for it

[Inverted2]

Well Jazz won’t be taking any work away. We still can’t staff the operation. Lots of 500hr F/O now but no one to upgrade.