Are posters like ShillBill and HFNav aware that they’re talking out of their ass?

[Tony Soprano]

An honest question related to:

LOL so you ain't doin shit. Riding on the coat tails of the hard fought contracts in the US. Why you even posting on a Canadian forum then? Pathetic.

Of course I left...its a basic math exercise. Do you think I'm stupid? As a 3rd year FO I make more than any airline pilot in this country

And reading comments about how great it is being a WJ FO making $90 a hour because you own a boat in Calgary only reaffirms my decision

Bonjour à tous,

I am weighing my career options but am scared to be at an airline full of shills

We have seen how shilling has worked at other airlines and they are now among the worst paid pilots on the planet

My question is, is it likely Air Transat pilots will get their collective butts together or are they going to shill it to the bottom because they have great golf tournaments with management

I see AC pilots revolted and joined ALPA so there is hope there at least. Just concerned about some of the comments from les pilotes de Air Transat

Would love to stay home in Montréal but would move if necessary. Maybe the US, just looking at getting my greencard...

Merci

A third year Delta FO eh? That’s awesome! How did you manage to get to step 3 pay at a US carrier when 10 months ago you were “looking at getting your green card…”

[Bede]

Hilarious. I guess we won't be hearing from ShillBiĺl insulting every pilot group that he thinks should have met his arbitrary standards.

[330heavy]

It appears HR and ALPA reps are doing a good job weeding out likes of Billy. Unfortunately, we’ve become the focal point of his tantrum that he didn’t get hired here.

[ShillBill]

.

[khedrei]

Why don't you answer the question man?

How did you get a job at delta on year 3 pay when you were "looking into a green card" in Sept '23

[PostmasterGeneral]

Why don't you answer the question man?

How did you get a job at delta on year 3 pay when you were "looking into a green card" in Sept '23

He won't because he can't. He's caught up in his own web of lies.

[aeronauticaldisaster]

Hilarious. I guess we won't be hearing from ShillBiĺl insulting every pilot group that he thinks should have met his arbitrary standards.

Hey Bede,

Are "Arbitrary Standards" different than "Industry Standards" like comparisons to US carriers

Or are you a proponent of the Canadian Pilot discount?

[CPU2000]

Hilarious. I guess we won't be hearing from ShillBiĺl insulting every pilot group that he thinks should have met his arbitrary standards.

What's really NOT hilarious is the fact junior narrowbody FOs at Delta make more than widebody Captains in this country

[thepoors]

Hilarious. I guess we won't be hearing from ShillBiĺl insulting every pilot group that he thinks should have met his arbitrary standards.

What's really NOT hilarious is the fact junior narrowbody FOs at Delta make more than widebody Captains in this country

Yeah the old timer regulars here are losing the plot. Regardless of whether he's making stuff up about his own career or not, his point is valid. It's sad that the focus is on discrediting and tearing someone down rather than on getting the wawcon we deserve in this country.

Bede does little more than make excuses for WJ management.

330heavy might actually be TS management from the way he was defending their ridiculous 3 year bond less than a year ago and the way he has convinced himself TS is the greatest airline to ever grace this earth.

[DanWEC]

It's just bonkers watching the same person post under different names in the same thread.

Also, the bond is gone at TS, and for many people, it's still on top for pay vs lifestyle balance of any airline in Canada, of that I'm confident. Individual preference can differ of course. But hey, let's not let positivity get in the way of anything here!

[braaap Braap]

Hilarious. I guess we won't be hearing from ShillBiĺl insulting every pilot group that he thinks should have met his arbitrary standards.

What's really NOT hilarious is the fact junior narrowbody FOs at Delta make more than widebody Captains in this country

Yeah the old timer regulars here are losing the plot. Regardless of whether he's making stuff up about his own career or not, his point is valid. It's sad that the focus is on discrediting and tearing someone down rather than on getting the wawcon we deserve in this country.

Well said. There are 5 or 6 threads in the past few weeks that have been absolutely railroaded by useless dick swinging over who's micro peen is the biggest. Cut the squabbling, come together with some empathy and tolerance, and let's keep working together on pulling the whole Canadian industry out of the gutter.

Sure these troll accounts are kind of annoying but at least they're bringing these issues to the forefront. Let's try and improve these issues rather than get all offended and start trying to discredit whoever's behind the keyboard.

[JBI]

What's really NOT hilarious is the fact junior narrowbody FOs at Delta make more than widebody Captains in this country

Yeah the old timer regulars here are losing the plot. Regardless of whether he's making stuff up about his own career or not, his point is valid. It's sad that the focus is on discrediting and tearing someone down rather than on getting the wawcon we deserve in this country.

Well said. There are 5 or 6 threads in the past few weeks that have been absolutely railroaded by useless dick swinging over who's micro peen is the biggest. Cut the squabbling, come together with some empathy and tolerance, and let's keep working together on pulling the whole Canadian industry out of the gutter.

Sure these troll accounts are kind of annoying but at least they're bringing these issues to the forefront. Let's try and improve these issues rather than get all offended and start trying to discredit whoever's behind the keyboard.

If you look at the history of the named troll's posts, they do not classify as having empathy or tolerance. If you also look at the previous post history, I asked questions about what they had done to help the pilot profession, and they instead just said that they had gone to Delta.

Definitely agree that we need to continue to improve the issues in our profession. Many seem to want US wages - that would be awesome! I want them too. Note that NONE of the US carriers got those wages because of going on strike. So why do many posters seem to think that's the ONLY way for groups to improve their working conditions here in Canada? Don't get me wrong, for some groups and companies, a strike may be a great negotiating option. It's just that, an option.

[330heavy]

Hilarious. I guess we won't be hearing from ShillBiĺl insulting every pilot group that he thinks should have met his arbitrary standards.

What's really NOT hilarious is the fact junior narrowbody FOs at Delta make more than widebody Captains in this country

Yeah the old timer regulars here are losing the plot. Regardless of whether he's making stuff up about his own career or not, his point is valid. It's sad that the focus is on discrediting and tearing someone down rather than on getting the wawcon we deserve in this country.

Bede does little more than make excuses for WJ management.

330heavy might actually be TS management from the way he was defending their ridiculous 3 year bond less than a year ago and the way he has convinced himself TS is the greatest airline to ever grace this earth.

Heaven forbid one love where they work and is happy there and the people they work with. It's a shame you dont have that, or unable to get on at Air Transat. Unfortunately I would not recommend you.

While more money such as US rates would be great for everyone, money doesn't buy happiness as often the saying. And for the record, I am for pattern bargaining and achieving gains. Bond is gone, more money is lost to training pilots who leave. The catch 22 is we need higher salaries to slow the attrition. There will always be those who go to AC for the security or the type of flying they do. And so I saw the bond as more money for us to achieve come bargaining time as the more money a company has, the more the pilots can get.

For a short time we had one of the highest paid narrowbody pilots in Canada. We been leap frogged, such as it should go in pattern bargaining. We have our chance next year as our contract comes up. We all here at Transat I can safely say, hope and support AC pilots in their endeavour for significant gains, many of us will be on the picket line with them if it comes to that, hopefully it doesn't. Many AC pilots know we stand behind them!

It's sad to see some imposter posters (with different handles) who gets a lil'chub in the pantaloons for regurgitating the same shit over and over without a clue or an IQ of how anything works and the timeline it takes. Haters gonna hate I suppose

[cdnavater]

What's really NOT hilarious is the fact junior narrowbody FOs at Delta make more than widebody Captains in this country

Yeah the old timer regulars here are losing the plot. Regardless of whether he's making stuff up about his own career or not, his point is valid. It's sad that the focus is on discrediting and tearing someone down rather than on getting the wawcon we deserve in this country.

Bede does little more than make excuses for WJ management.

330heavy might actually be TS management from the way he was defending their ridiculous 3 year bond less than a year ago and the way he has convinced himself TS is the greatest airline to ever grace this earth.

Heaven forbid one love where they work and is happy there and the people they work with. It's a shame you dont have that, or unable to get on at Air Transat. Unfortunately I would not recommend you.

While more money such as US rates would be great for everyone, money doesn't buy happiness as often the saying. And for the record, I am for pattern bargaining and achieving gains. Bond is gone, more money is lost to training pilots who leave. The catch 22 is we need higher salaries to slow the attrition. There will always be those who go to AC for the security or the type of flying they do. And so I saw the bond as more money for us to achieve come bargaining time as the more money a company has, the more the pilots can get.

For a short time we had one of the highest paid narrowbody pilots in Canada. We been leap frogged, such as it should go in pattern bargaining. We have our chance next year as our contract comes up. We all here at Transat I can safely say, hope and support AC pilots in their endeavour for significant gains, many of us will be on the picket line with them if it comes to that, hopefully it doesn't. Many AC pilots know we stand behind them!

It's sad to see some imposter posters (with different handles) who gets a lil'chub in the pantaloons for regurgitating the same shit over and over without a clue or an IQ of how anything works and the timeline it takes. Haters gonna hate I suppose

They also don’t understand the leverage a regional has versus the mainline they serve, I find it completely ridiculous the comments how they should have went on strike, etc.
In the grand scheme, WJ very likely would have let Encore pilots strike for a very long time, until they caved or just shut them down, of this I have no doubt!

[acountant]

Yeah the old timer regulars here are losing the plot. Regardless of whether he's making stuff up about his own career or not, his point is valid. It's sad that the focus is on discrediting and tearing someone down rather than on getting the wawcon we deserve in this country.

Bede does little more than make excuses for WJ management.

330heavy might actually be TS management from the way he was defending their ridiculous 3 year bond less than a year ago and the way he has convinced himself TS is the greatest airline to ever grace this earth.

Heaven forbid one love where they work and is happy there and the people they work with. It's a shame you dont have that, or unable to get on at Air Transat. Unfortunately I would not recommend you.

While more money such as US rates would be great for everyone, money doesn't buy happiness as often the saying. And for the record, I am for pattern bargaining and achieving gains. Bond is gone, more money is lost to training pilots who leave. The catch 22 is we need higher salaries to slow the attrition. There will always be those who go to AC for the security or the type of flying they do. And so I saw the bond as more money for us to achieve come bargaining time as the more money a company has, the more the pilots can get.

For a short time we had one of the highest paid narrowbody pilots in Canada. We been leap frogged, such as it should go in pattern bargaining. We have our chance next year as our contract comes up. We all here at Transat I can safely say, hope and support AC pilots in their endeavour for significant gains, many of us will be on the picket line with them if it comes to that, hopefully it doesn't. Many AC pilots know we stand behind them!

It's sad to see some imposter posters (with different handles) who gets a lil'chub in the pantaloons for regurgitating the same shit over and over without a clue or an IQ of how anything works and the timeline it takes. Haters gonna hate I suppose

They also don’t understand the leverage a regional has versus the mainline they serve, I find it completely ridiculous the comments how they should have went on strike, etc.
In the grand scheme, WJ very likely would have let Encore pilots strike for a very long time, until they caved or just shut them down, of this I have no doubt!

So regionals in Canada are shutting down due to high pilot pay.

Crazy!

[Torontomaplelaughs]

Cdnavater,

What is the acceptable Canadian discount in your view?

50%? Since you think Encore didn't have anymore leverage

[cdnavater]

Heaven forbid one love where they work and is happy there and the people they work with. It's a shame you dont have that, or unable to get on at Air Transat. Unfortunately I would not recommend you.

While more money such as US rates would be great for everyone, money doesn't buy happiness as often the saying. And for the record, I am for pattern bargaining and achieving gains. Bond is gone, more money is lost to training pilots who leave. The catch 22 is we need higher salaries to slow the attrition. There will always be those who go to AC for the security or the type of flying they do. And so I saw the bond as more money for us to achieve come bargaining time as the more money a company has, the more the pilots can get.

For a short time we had one of the highest paid narrowbody pilots in Canada. We been leap frogged, such as it should go in pattern bargaining. We have our chance next year as our contract comes up. We all here at Transat I can safely say, hope and support AC pilots in their endeavour for significant gains, many of us will be on the picket line with them if it comes to that, hopefully it doesn't. Many AC pilots know we stand behind them!

It's sad to see some imposter posters (with different handles) who gets a lil'chub in the pantaloons for regurgitating the same shit over and over without a clue or an IQ of how anything works and the timeline it takes. Haters gonna hate I suppose

They also don’t understand the leverage a regional has versus the mainline they serve, I find it completely ridiculous the comments how they should have went on strike, etc.
In the grand scheme, WJ very likely would have let Encore pilots strike for a very long time, until they caved or just shut them down, of this I have no doubt!

So regionals in Canada are shutting down due to high pilot pay.

Crazy!

Yes, WJ severed ties with Pasco, I suspect pilot wages were the biggest reason, would they have shut down Encore, who knows but the possibility was there!

[acountant]

They also don’t understand the leverage a regional has versus the mainline they serve, I find it completely ridiculous the comments how they should have went on strike, etc.
In the grand scheme, WJ very likely would have let Encore pilots strike for a very long time, until they caved or just shut them down, of this I have no doubt!

So regionals in Canada are shutting down due to high pilot pay.

Crazy!

Yes, WJ severed ties with Pasco, I suspect pilot wages were the biggest reason, would they have shut down Encore, who knows but the possibility was there!

That's nuts. Entire communities without airline service because Q400 pilots were asking for raises!

[JBI]

That's nuts. Entire communities without airline service because Q400 pilots were asking for raises!

I mean there's Penticton, Brandon, Fort St. John and Terrace - those are the only communities Encore serves exclusively from what I know (I may have missed one or two). All but Terrace are within 2.5 hours of an airport that is served by WestJet. Every other community that Encore serves also gets WestJet 737 service. Both Fort St. John and Terrace are served by Jazz and/or CMA. Penticton is served by Pacific Coastal on their own. So in reality, only Brandon would 'lose' airline service if Encore shut down but even then, WestJet did previously fly the 737 into Brandon.

[cdnavater]

So regionals in Canada are shutting down due to high pilot pay.

Crazy!

Yes, WJ severed ties with Pasco, I suspect pilot wages were the biggest reason, would they have shut down Encore, who knows but the possibility was there!

That's nuts. Entire communities without airline service because Q400 pilots were asking for raises!

Right! Crazy!

[CaptDukeNukem]

That's nuts. Entire communities without airline service because Q400 pilots were asking for raises!

I mean there's Penticton, Brandon, Fort St. John and Terrace - those are the only communities Encore serves exclusively from what I know (I may have missed one or two). All but Terrace are within 2.5 hours of an airport that is served by WestJet. Every other community that Encore serves also gets WestJet 737 service. Both Fort St. John and Terrace are served by Jazz and/or CMA. Penticton is served by Pacific Coastal on their own. So in reality, only Brandon would 'lose' airline service if Encore shut down but even then, WestJet did previously fly the 737 into Brandon.

Brandon is also 2.5 hours drive to ywg. And they already run a shuttle to the airport from what I remember.

[acountant]

Wowzers!

Does that mean Air Canada pilots should be careful too?

Are they going to shutdown Edmonton (only 2.5 hrs from Calgary) or Montreal (5 hrs drive plus train options from Toronto)

Or maybe Ottawa (2 hrs from Montreal)

Or Toronto (only 1.5 hrs from Buffalo)

Perhaps Winnipeg and people drive to Grand Forks or Regina and people drive to Minot?

It's crazy how pilots are the make or break for entire operations. Hopefully at the very least we can travel on American carriers where their pilots make double but somehow aren't the make or break point?

[JBI]

Wowzers!

Does that mean Air Canada pilots should be careful too?

Are they going to shutdown Edmonton (only 2.5 hrs from Calgary) or Montreal (5 hrs drive plus train options from Toronto)

Or maybe Ottawa (2 hrs from Montreal)

Or Toronto (only 1.5 hrs from Buffalo)

Perhaps Winnipeg and people drive to Grand Forks or Regina and people drive to Minot?

It's crazy how pilots are the make or break for entire operations. Hopefully at the very least we can travel on American carriers where their pilots make double but somehow aren't the make or break point?

Golly Gee Willikers!

I figured that someone as meticulous as an 'acountant' would have read the key sentence that Every other community that Encore serves also gets WestJet 737 service

So the 'cost' isn't just looking at pilot wages, it's looking at the opportunity cost of funding the entire Encore operation when there are relatively few markets that Encore serves exclusively.

Last I checked, AC does have some overlap with Jazz on a few routes, but for the most part, there isn't other options for serving those markets. AC pilots have a significantly stronger negotiating position than Encore did. The company could have relatively easily covered Encore's flying in the event of a work stoppage. AC will not be able to do so. AC also doesn't have planes parked because of lack of crew like Encore does.

[cdnavater]

Wowzers!

Does that mean Air Canada pilots should be careful too?

Are they going to shutdown Edmonton (only 2.5 hrs from Calgary) or Montreal (5 hrs drive plus train options from Toronto)

Or maybe Ottawa (2 hrs from Montreal)

Or Toronto (only 1.5 hrs from Buffalo)

Perhaps Winnipeg and people drive to Grand Forks or Regina and people drive to Minot?

It's crazy how pilots are the make or break for entire operations. Hopefully at the very least we can travel on American carriers where their pilots make double but somehow aren't the make or break point?

Do you understand the difference between an operation running 18ish Q400s and a mainline operating 117 737s and how a 737 could cover most of the Q flying with reduced frequency?
Surely an “acountant” would understand seat costs, there is an amount where the 737 becomes more efficient at reduced frequency, surely an “acountant” would get that.
Now, I would argue if Encore were flying all 47 of the fleet, they would have had more leverage, but shutting down 18-20 and the cost benefits of the redundant workers, like accountants, managers, etc would outweigh the benefits of increased wages.

[twa22]

Do you both realize acountant is a troll account for the the real "accountant" who generally antagonized people around here?