EV Parking at YYZ,YUL,YVR

[throwawaycorporate]

I am a corporate pilot exploring the possibility of a future airline career.

Can any airline guys at AC,WS or AT, or otherwise shed insight on the feasibility of taking an EV to company parking lots? I would have a 150km round trip commute max, so I am most worried about leaving the car outside for the longest possible pairing (6 days?) at -30. Does anyone else take their EV to work?

[Me262]

AC YVR has EV chargers

[Inverted2]

Precisely why I don’t want an EV. Last thing I want is finishing a pairing and then go and find a (hopefully available) charger and spend another 45 minutes waiting.

YYZ employee lot by the way has only a handful of chargers for I’m guessing several thousand parking spaces.

[goingnowherefast]

That's kinda the point. Charge while gone on the pairing. Come back to a charged up car. Hell, with the length of most pairings, a 120v plug would work for any EV. Bring the small charger with you. It might take 2 days to charge on a level 1 charger, but it's a 3-day pairing, so who cares?

Do any airports have block heater plugs? They will charge an EV in less time than an average multi-day pairing.

To those with a gas car. Wouldn't it be nice to come back and find that your gas tank was filled while you were gone? That's the convenience we're talking about here.

[Inverted2]

That would be nice but in the real world I don’t foresee the GTAA installing outlets at all the parking spots anytime soon. I can charge my car at the gas station in 5 minutes and drive to work 3x and still have lots left. That electricity comes from somewhere and it isn’t free either.

[goingnowherefast]

Electricity isn't free, but it's about 5x cheaper than gasoline. Yada Yada, coal power (that doesn't exist in Ontario anymore). Don't care, it's still 5x cheaper.

I suppose this is another reason why YYZ is a dumpster. Extortion parking rates, and they don't provide anything besides a small chunk of pavement.

[JustaCanadian]

I just got dinged today for leaving my car plugged in to long after charging was complete. I was on for an hour and paid 35 cents kw to charge, but left my car for an hour after it was done because I forgot to unplug. Charge was 10 bucks. Not sure how much more it would be if I left the car longer.

The problem with this infrastructure is its the wild west, rates are all different, penalties are random for leaving car parked plugged in to long. The information isn't even posted, you just get charged randomly.

TLDR. you won't be leaving your car on charge for a 3 day pairing. This is not how it works. You either charge before or after your pairing and wait for the charge then move your vehicle. At 35c a kw I pay about 1/3 the price of gas per km driven. And driving electric is all about being hipster and enjoying the time you wait for a charge. You get to brag about how far you drive and how long you spend charging and waiting around to get juiced up.

[CaptDukeNukem]

That's kinda the point. Charge while gone on the pairing. Come back to a charged up car. Hell, with the length of most pairings, a 120v plug would work for any EV. Bring the small charger with you. It might take 2 days to charge on a level 1 charger, but it's a 3-day pairing, so who cares?

Do any airports have block heater plugs? They will charge an EV in less time than an average multi-day pairing.

To those with a gas car. Wouldn't it be nice to come back and find that your gas tank was filled while you were gone? That's the convenience we're talking about here.

Block charger ports also sometimes cycle 15 min on and off. Not great for EV charging. It takes sometimes 10 minutes for battery preconditioning before charge is actually accepted. So at best, you might get 10 minutes of charging every hour using a block heater plug in extreme winter

[goingnowherefast]

That's kinda the point. Charge while gone on the pairing. Come back to a charged up car. Hell, with the length of most pairings, a 120v plug would work for any EV. Bring the small charger with you. It might take 2 days to charge on a level 1 charger, but it's a 3-day pairing, so who cares?

Do any airports have block heater plugs? They will charge an EV in less time than an average multi-day pairing.

To those with a gas car. Wouldn't it be nice to come back and find that your gas tank was filled while you were gone? That's the convenience we're talking about here.

Block charger ports also sometimes cycle 15 min on and off. Not great for EV charging. It takes sometimes 10 minutes for battery preconditioning before charge is actually accepted. So at best, you might get 10 minutes of charging every hour using a block heater plug in extreme winter

What a stupid f-ing idea. Other than trying to be super cheap, why would a parking lot cycle the power? Electricity isn't that expensive. Cycling the power that frequently wears out switches/relays that probably cost more than the power they saved.

Eventually, I think we'll see slow level 1 or 2 chargers at a long term parking lots surrounding airports. Hotels are already starting to do this.

[CaptDukeNukem]

That's kinda the point. Charge while gone on the pairing. Come back to a charged up car. Hell, with the length of most pairings, a 120v plug would work for any EV. Bring the small charger with you. It might take 2 days to charge on a level 1 charger, but it's a 3-day pairing, so who cares?

Do any airports have block heater plugs? They will charge an EV in less time than an average multi-day pairing.

To those with a gas car. Wouldn't it be nice to come back and find that your gas tank was filled while you were gone? That's the convenience we're talking about here.

Block charger ports also sometimes cycle 15 min on and off. Not great for EV charging. It takes sometimes 10 minutes for battery preconditioning before charge is actually accepted. So at best, you might get 10 minutes of charging every hour using a block heater plug in extreme winter

What a stupid f-ing idea. Other than trying to be super cheap, why would a parking lot cycle the power? Electricity isn't that expensive. Cycling the power that frequently wears out switches/relays that probably cost more than the power they saved.

Eventually, I think we'll see slow level 1 or 2 chargers at a long term parking lots surrounding airports. Hotels are already starting to do this.

You say these things but actually don’t realize that Public block heaters are often cycled. It cuts costs. And still provides enough electricity to keep the oil pan warm enough to start. They weren’t designed to charge EVs.

Electricity isn’t expensive. But if you’re the one paying for 600 cars to be plugged in, I guarantee you you’re looking at the costs.

Go throw a multi meter in at your local winter parking lot and simply watch.

[Donald]

I've already seen campgrounds add a supplemental charge for people that plug in cars at their powered sites.

[co-joe]

I've already seen campgrounds add a supplemental charge for people that plug in cars at their powered sites.

But an RV air conditioner that draws 50 amps, 24/7 is totally ok. Greed is greed is greed...

The staff plugs in yyc are powered something like 10 minutes on, 50 minutes off. Indigo parking had a truck running full time boosting people because none of the plugs work enough to keep cars from freezing solid during last year's cold snap. Electrical infrastructure here is abysmal.

[nohojob]

In YUL you have a parking lot for employees whixh has chargers. You have to pay for charging, it's level 2.
If you have an EV you'll have access to it.

[Bingo Fuel]

I live about 100 km away from YYZ, and have never had to charge anywhere other than my home charger when I commute to work. A "full tank" costs me about $8. I realize that’s a privileged position, since charging at home is not possible for some folks. My car would have between 400-500km of range with a full charge, but for commuting I limit it to 80% to preserve battery health. On really cold or snowy days I’ll take 100%.

I lose about 2-4% if I leave the car for a week between -10 and -20.

Even if I left the GTAA parking garage with less than 30% battery, I’d only need 5-10 minutes at a level 3 charger to get the charge I need to get home, even on the coldest winter day. There are several chargers on my route home that are 150 kW or better.

So I’ve never seen the need to apply for the GTAA permit for the slow level 2 chargers on the 1st floor of the garage, and they always seem to be full.

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ is helpful to plan out some theoretical trips.

https://www.plugshare.com/ to check and see if chargers are broken.

Instead of charging at the garage, I'd much rather use this Shell 180 kW level 3 charger that's an 8 minute drive from the parking garage:

https://www.plugshare.com/location/347340

[Turboprops]

Precisely why I don’t want an EV. Last thing I want is finishing a pairing and then go and find a (hopefully available) charger and spend another 45 minutes waiting.

YYZ employee lot by the way has only a handful of chargers for I’m guessing several thousand parking spaces.

If you can charge at home then your scenario would never happen, unless you live like 200km away from base
If you can’t charge at home/work consistently, then you shouldn’t buy an EV imo

[goingnowherefast]

Precisely why I don’t want an EV. Last thing I want is finishing a pairing and then go and find a (hopefully available) charger and spend another 45 minutes waiting.

YYZ employee lot by the way has only a handful of chargers for I’m guessing several thousand parking spaces.

If you can charge at home then your scenario would never happen, unless you live like 200km away from base
If you can’t charge at home/work consistently, then you shouldn’t buy an EV imo

I know someone who does live 200km from base. Leaves home at 90%. In the summer, it will get him home. In the winter, he charges his car at a bathroom stop on the way home. The 10 minutes it takes to use the bathroom and buy a coffee is all the charging the car needs to get the rest of the way home.

The same 400km drive in a gas car would be about the same. Except you gotta stand there whole time pumping gas, then go inside and take a leak. Can't do both at the same time.

[twa22]

Precisely why I don’t want an EV. Last thing I want is finishing a pairing and then go and find a (hopefully available) charger and spend another 45 minutes waiting.

YYZ employee lot by the way has only a handful of chargers for I’m guessing several thousand parking spaces.

If you can charge at home then your scenario would never happen, unless you live like 200km away from base
If you can’t charge at home/work consistently, then you shouldn’t buy an EV imo

I know someone who does live 200km from base. Leaves home at 90%. In the summer, it will get him home. In the winter, he charges his car at a bathroom stop on the way home. The 10 minutes it takes to use the bathroom and buy a coffee is all the charging the car needs to get the rest of the way home.

The same 400km drive in a gas car would be about the same. Except you gotta stand there whole time pumping gas, then go inside and take a leak. Can't do both at the same time.

Sure you can, prepay, put nozzle in, then attach clip to keep handle in pumping position, go inside and take a leak... handle doesn't have locking clip? No problem, put gas cap under handle... and before you say you shouldn't do that, this wasn't a should or shouldn't scenario, it's a can't do both at the same time scenario, which you clearly can

As for the whole EV thing... it's just so much easier to not have to plan out your life around a car, and just go fill up when the light comes on.. I like the tech, and it will be mainstream some day, just not for me personally at this moment

[Turboprops]

Sure you can, prepay, put nozzle in, then attach clip to keep handle in pumping position, go inside and take a leak... handle doesn't have locking clip? No problem, put gas cap under handle...

This sounds like an awful lot of work to be honest…
You’ve never tried EV have you? It’s seriously way less hassle than you think

[twa22]

Sure you can, prepay, put nozzle in, then attach clip to keep handle in pumping position, go inside and take a leak... handle doesn't have locking clip? No problem, put gas cap under handle...

This sounds like an awful lot of work to be honest…
You’ve never tried EV have you? It’s seriously way less hassle than you think

Alot of work...? Have you never been to a gas station that has the clips to lock the handle in place? They're awesome, and they're basically everywhere in the US, Canada not as much but I've been seeing them more and more... It's great in the winter, let the pump do its thing while waiting in the car 5 minutes so do you don't freeze

And I've driven plenty of EVs, they're impressive, but I'm a petrolhead and I'm old school, I prefer to row my own gears for as long as I can

[cdnavater]

Sure you can, prepay, put nozzle in, then attach clip to keep handle in pumping position, go inside and take a leak... handle doesn't have locking clip? No problem, put gas cap under handle...

This sounds like an awful lot of work to be honest…
You’ve never tried EV have you? It’s seriously way less hassle than you think

Alot of work...? Have you never been to a gas station that has the clips to lock the handle in place? They're awesome, and they're basically everywhere in the US, Canada not as much but I've been seeing them more and more... It's great in the winter, let the pump do its thing while waiting in the car 5 minutes so do you don't freeze

And I've driven plenty of EVs, they're impressive, but I'm a petrolhead and I'm old school, I prefer to row my own gears for as long as I can

I’m with you to a certain extent, I would like to embrace this technology but where I am and plan on going the infrastructure is sooooo far behind, so it’s likely not going to happen for me for at least 5 or so years.
I am curious though, in the winter I never head out on a 200 km drive without twice as much fuel that I would need, if I’m stranded on the side of the road or stuck in a road closure from an accident, I was reserve fuel.
How do these electric vehicles fair in this situation, ie; you have a 150 trip and enough battery for 200, when you’re stranded waiting for the 401 to reopen, do you still have enough battery for the trip, I’m talking winter blizzard type situation, not summer standing outside with the car off waiting?
Edited to add, my understanding and what I actually feel is my greatest concern is range anxiety!

[Turboprops]

Sure you can, prepay, put nozzle in, then attach clip to keep handle in pumping position, go inside and take a leak... handle doesn't have locking clip? No problem, put gas cap under handle...

This sounds like an awful lot of work to be honest…
You’ve never tried EV have you? It’s seriously way less hassle than you think

Alot of work...? Have you never been to a gas station that has the clips to lock the handle in place? They're awesome, and they're basically everywhere in the US, Canada not as much but I've been seeing them more and more... It's great in the winter, let the pump do its thing while waiting in the car 5 minutes so do you don't freeze

And I've driven plenty of EVs, they're impressive, but I'm a petrolhead and I'm old school, I prefer to row my own gears for as long as I can

I have, and I’ll say it again, what you described sounds like a lot of work. Try the tesla supercharger next time and you’ll understand what I’m getting at.

Sure if you go on road trips to remote places where charging is a pain in the butt then don’t use an EV, but I thought we’re talking a normal commute to work right?

[Turboprops]

This sounds like an awful lot of work to be honest…
You’ve never tried EV have you? It’s seriously way less hassle than you think

Alot of work...? Have you never been to a gas station that has the clips to lock the handle in place? They're awesome, and they're basically everywhere in the US, Canada not as much but I've been seeing them more and more... It's great in the winter, let the pump do its thing while waiting in the car 5 minutes so do you don't freeze

And I've driven plenty of EVs, they're impressive, but I'm a petrolhead and I'm old school, I prefer to row my own gears for as long as I can

I’m with you to a certain extent, I would like to embrace this technology but where I am and plan on going the infrastructure is sooooo far behind, so it’s likely not going to happen for me for at least 5 or so years.
I am curious though, in the winter I never head out on a 200 km drive without twice as much fuel that I would need, if I’m stranded on the side of the road or stuck in a road closure from an accident, I was reserve fuel.
How do these electric vehicles fair in this situation, ie; you have a 150 trip and enough battery for 200, when you’re stranded waiting for the 401 to reopen, do you still have enough battery for the trip, I’m talking winter blizzard type situation, not summer standing outside with the car off waiting?
Edited to add, my understanding and what I actually feel is my greatest concern is range anxiety!

If you know there’s a blizzard coming, would you start your 150km trip with half tank of gas then? I know I wouldn’t, so why would you do it with an EV?
Just charge it to 100% before you leave the house, get to YYZ, turn off sentry mode, and you’ll be fine when you come back from a 4 day pairing.
If the commute’s too far, you’ll need to get gas anyways, so instead of stopping for gas you now stop for supercharging. You spend the same 10 minutes either way

[goingnowherefast]

Running some moderate environmental controls doesn't do use much battery. Should be good for at least 8 hours of running a heater, depending upon charge level, heat preference, OAT, etc. The batteries on these things are huge. They'll run a 1800w space heater for days (if you could hook a space heater up to the battery).

A gas car will burn through half a tank of gas idling for 8 hours too.

[twa22]

This sounds like an awful lot of work to be honest…
You’ve never tried EV have you? It’s seriously way less hassle than you think

Alot of work...? Have you never been to a gas station that has the clips to lock the handle in place? They're awesome, and they're basically everywhere in the US, Canada not as much but I've been seeing them more and more... It's great in the winter, let the pump do its thing while waiting in the car 5 minutes so do you don't freeze

And I've driven plenty of EVs, they're impressive, but I'm a petrolhead and I'm old school, I prefer to row my own gears for as long as I can

I’m with you to a certain extent, I would like to embrace this technology but where I am and plan on going the infrastructure is sooooo far behind, so it’s likely not going to happen for me for at least 5 or so years.
I am curious though, in the winter I never head out on a 200 km drive without twice as much fuel that I would need, if I’m stranded on the side of the road or stuck in a road closure from an accident, I was reserve fuel.
How do these electric vehicles fair in this situation, ie; you have a 150 trip and enough battery for 200, when you’re stranded waiting for the 401 to reopen, do you still have enough battery for the trip, I’m talking winter blizzard type situation, not summer standing outside with the car off waiting?
Edited to add, my understanding and what I actually feel is my greatest concern is range anxiety!

That's a good question to be fair, and never really thought about that with an EV... Usually combustion engines consume 1 to 2 liters an hour using depending on engine size, no idea how it would be with an EV

[Bingo Fuel]

Alot of work...? Have you never been to a gas station that has the clips to lock the handle in place? They're awesome, and they're basically everywhere in the US, Canada not as much but I've been seeing them more and more... It's great in the winter, let the pump do its thing while waiting in the car 5 minutes so do you don't freeze

And I've driven plenty of EVs, they're impressive, but I'm a petrolhead and I'm old school, I prefer to row my own gears for as long as I can

I’m with you to a certain extent, I would like to embrace this technology but where I am and plan on going the infrastructure is sooooo far behind, so it’s likely not going to happen for me for at least 5 or so years.
I am curious though, in the winter I never head out on a 200 km drive without twice as much fuel that I would need, if I’m stranded on the side of the road or stuck in a road closure from an accident, I was reserve fuel.
How do these electric vehicles fair in this situation, ie; you have a 150 trip and enough battery for 200, when you’re stranded waiting for the 401 to reopen, do you still have enough battery for the trip, I’m talking winter blizzard type situation, not summer standing outside with the car off waiting?
Edited to add, my understanding and what I actually feel is my greatest concern is range anxiety!

That's a good question to be fair, and never really thought about that with an EV... Usually combustion engines consume 1 to 2 liters an hour using depending on engine size, no idea how it would be with an EV

EV heaters consume about 1-2% per hour, depending on the make and model.

So looking at cdnaviator's scenario, let's assume the car has 400km range in the winter, so it begins the trip with 50% battery.

It requires 38% to get home, leaving 12% to spare. At a rate of 2% per hour, you can run the heater continuously for 6 hours and still make it home.