EV Parking at YYZ,YUL,YVR

[twa22]

Running some moderate environmental controls doesn't do use much battery. Should be good for at least 8 hours of running a heater, depending upon charge level, heat preference, OAT, etc. The batteries on these things are huge. They'll run a 1800w space heater for days (if you could hook a space heater up to the battery).

A gas car will burn through half a tank of gas idling for 8 hours too.

I’m with you to a certain extent, I would like to embrace this technology but where I am and plan on going the infrastructure is sooooo far behind, so it’s likely not going to happen for me for at least 5 or so years.
I am curious though, in the winter I never head out on a 200 km drive without twice as much fuel that I would need, if I’m stranded on the side of the road or stuck in a road closure from an accident, I was reserve fuel.
How do these electric vehicles fair in this situation, ie; you have a 150 trip and enough battery for 200, when you’re stranded waiting for the 401 to reopen, do you still have enough battery for the trip, I’m talking winter blizzard type situation, not summer standing outside with the car off waiting?
Edited to add, my understanding and what I actually feel is my greatest concern is range anxiety!

That's a good question to be fair, and never really thought about that with an EV... Usually combustion engines consume 1 to 2 liters an hour using depending on engine size, no idea how it would be with an EV

EV heaters consume about 1-2% per hour, depending on the make and model.

So looking at cdnaviator's scenario, let's assume the car has 400km range in the winter, so it begins the trip with 50% battery.

It requires 38% to get home, leaving 12% to spare. At a rate of 2% per hour, you can run the heater continuously for 6 hours and still make it home.

Good to know, thanks for the info.

Now a gas engine won't burn half a tank in 8 hours. Assuming 2 liters an hour burn (which most cars don't burn anywhere near that), but for the sake of example, in 8 hours that's 16 liters, or about a quarter tank, give or take. Most sedans have a fuel tank between 50-60 liters these days

[digits_]

Running some moderate environmental controls doesn't do use much battery. Should be good for at least 8 hours of running a heater, depending upon charge level, heat preference, OAT, etc. The batteries on these things are huge. They'll run a 1800w space heater for days (if you could hook a space heater up to the battery).

A gas car will burn through half a tank of gas idling for 8 hours too.

That's a good question to be fair, and never really thought about that with an EV... Usually combustion engines consume 1 to 2 liters an hour using depending on engine size, no idea how it would be with an EV

EV heaters consume about 1-2% per hour, depending on the make and model.

So looking at cdnaviator's scenario, let's assume the car has 400km range in the winter, so it begins the trip with 50% battery.

It requires 38% to get home, leaving 12% to spare. At a rate of 2% per hour, you can run the heater continuously for 6 hours and still make it home.

Good to know, thanks for the info.

Now a gas engine won't burn half a tank in 8 hours. Assuming 2 liters an hour burn (which most cars don't burn anywhere near that), but for the sake of example, in 8 hours that's 16 liters, or about a quarter tank, give or take. Most sedans have a fuel tank between 50-60 liters these days

You did it. You found the silver bullet that will kill EVs.
I refuse to drive a car if it can't run a heater for 25 hours. That's just irresponsible.




The mental gymnastics people go through to try and justify their irrational hatred towards EVs is extremely fascinating.

[Speedbrakes]

I have a Lightning and I live about 90 minutes east of the airport. My round trip to work is 300 kms. I leave the house with my battery at 90% and I get home with between 15% and 30% depending on how I was driving and traffic conditions. When I'm on a 5-day pairing the battery drops maybe 1%. And that's in the winter as well.

Having an EV isn't an issue at all. Just don't expect to be able to charge at the airport. There are chargers in YYZ but there's four I think. And I've only ever once seen one free. The problem for flight crew is that when you sign up to be able to use these chargers you must agree that you will only use the charger while you're charging. That sucks for someone who's about to leave for 5 days. So they're basically unusable for flight crews. Unless you only do min-credit single days.

It would be amazing if they'd install a bunch of level 1 chargers on one of the levels in the parking garage. I'd be happy to pay for it but they need to cater to flight crews. A good percentage of the people that use that parking garage are gone for days at a time.

But with that said, I almost never need to charge. The battery is enough to make it to and from work even after a 5-day pairing.

[throwawaycorporate]

Thanks everyone for the insights!

It's really the winter overnights that I was worried about and it sounds like it's really not that much of an issue.

[cdnavater]

Alot of work...? Have you never been to a gas station that has the clips to lock the handle in place? They're awesome, and they're basically everywhere in the US, Canada not as much but I've been seeing them more and more... It's great in the winter, let the pump do its thing while waiting in the car 5 minutes so do you don't freeze

And I've driven plenty of EVs, they're impressive, but I'm a petrolhead and I'm old school, I prefer to row my own gears for as long as I can

I’m with you to a certain extent, I would like to embrace this technology but where I am and plan on going the infrastructure is sooooo far behind, so it’s likely not going to happen for me for at least 5 or so years.
I am curious though, in the winter I never head out on a 200 km drive without twice as much fuel that I would need, if I’m stranded on the side of the road or stuck in a road closure from an accident, I was reserve fuel.
How do these electric vehicles fair in this situation, ie; you have a 150 trip and enough battery for 200, when you’re stranded waiting for the 401 to reopen, do you still have enough battery for the trip, I’m talking winter blizzard type situation, not summer standing outside with the car off waiting?
Edited to add, my understanding and what I actually feel is my greatest concern is range anxiety!

If you know there’s a blizzard coming, would you start your 150km trip with half tank of gas then? I know I wouldn’t, so why would you do it with an EV?
Just charge it to 100% before you leave the house, get to YYZ, turn off sentry mode, and you’ll be fine when you come back from a 4 day pairing.
If the commute’s too far, you’ll need to get gas anyways, so instead of stopping for gas you now stop for supercharging. You spend the same 10 minutes either way

To answer your question. Yes, 1/2 tank would be plenty for 150 km trip since a full tank is 800 kms but I get your point, around where I am there is only one supercharger, there are some dc fast chargers but not tons and I have no idea what the difference is in charging time super vs fast.
Until superchargers are like gas stations, everywhere with multiple “pumps”, I can’t see making the switch. I have been looking at plug in hybrids as an option

[twa22]

Running some moderate environmental controls doesn't do use much battery. Should be good for at least 8 hours of running a heater, depending upon charge level, heat preference, OAT, etc. The batteries on these things are huge. They'll run a 1800w space heater for days (if you could hook a space heater up to the battery).

A gas car will burn through half a tank of gas idling for 8 hours too.

EV heaters consume about 1-2% per hour, depending on the make and model.

So looking at cdnaviator's scenario, let's assume the car has 400km range in the winter, so it begins the trip with 50% battery.

It requires 38% to get home, leaving 12% to spare. At a rate of 2% per hour, you can run the heater continuously for 6 hours and still make it home.

Good to know, thanks for the info.

Now a gas engine won't burn half a tank in 8 hours. Assuming 2 liters an hour burn (which most cars don't burn anywhere near that), but for the sake of example, in 8 hours that's 16 liters, or about a quarter tank, give or take. Most sedans have a fuel tank between 50-60 liters these days

You did it. You found the silver bullet that will kill EVs.
I refuse to drive a car if it can't run a heater for 25 hours. That's just irresponsible.




The mental gymnastics people go through to try and justify their irrational hatred towards EVs is extremely fascinating.

Man, what is it with some people

Where on earth did I say I hate EVs and was justifying my use of a internal combustion engine?

Let me spell it out for you. I like EVs, I think they're overall great, and I look forward to a future with them, they will for sure one day become the first option when it comes to propulsing source.

But at this time, for my needs, and for my own personal preference, I prefer an ICE engine. If an EV works for someone, I'm all for it

But don't for one second, think because someone isn't on the EV train, they are anti EV or hate them

The lunacy of this place never fails to amaze sometimes

[digits_]

Good to know, thanks for the info.

Now a gas engine won't burn half a tank in 8 hours. Assuming 2 liters an hour burn (which most cars don't burn anywhere near that), but for the sake of example, in 8 hours that's 16 liters, or about a quarter tank, give or take. Most sedans have a fuel tank between 50-60 liters these days

You did it. You found the silver bullet that will kill EVs.
I refuse to drive a car if it can't run a heater for 25 hours. That's just irresponsible.




The mental gymnastics people go through to try and justify their irrational hatred towards EVs is extremely fascinating.

Man, what is it with some people

Where on earth did I say I hate EVs and was justifying my use of a internal combustion engine?

Let me spell it out for you. I like EVs, I think they're overall great, and I look forward to a future with them, they will for sure one day become the first option when it comes to propulsing source.

But at this time, for my needs, and for my own personal preference, I prefer an ICE engine. If an EV works for someone, I'm all for it

But don't for one second, think because someone isn't on the EV train, they are anti EV or hate them

The lunacy of this place never fails to amaze sometimes

My apologies, I wasn't replying to you personally but to the concern about the heater / idling time that was brought up as a negative aspect of EVs

[goingnowherefast]

To answer your question. Yes, 1/2 tank would be plenty for 150 km trip since a full tank is 800 kms but I get your point, around where I am there is only one supercharger, there are some dc fast chargers but not tons and I have no idea what the difference is in charging time super vs fast.
Until superchargers are like gas stations, everywhere with multiple “pumps”, I can’t see making the switch. I have been looking at plug in hybrids as an option

One doesn't use a fast charger near where they live. You'd just charge at home overnight for cheaper.

Supercharger is basically Tesla brand for DC fast chargers.
Fast chargers are DC chargers. They're all the same thing

Level 1 = 120v, plug into the wall. They deliver typically 1.2kw. Great for charging over a long time. Charge at an airport parking lot over a 3 day pairing...except nobody has installed them yet. They could even turn them off at night to help balance the grid load. With my car, we don't drive a whole ton and we charge every 3rd or 4th night for about 10hrs. Even a busy day, or forget to charge for another 2 days, we'll catch up and get it back to 80%. I haven't found the need to buy a level 2 charger yet. My garage is wired for it, but the circuit sits empty.

Level 2 = 240v. They range from 16a to 40a (I've heard of 50a) and delivering 3.8kw to 9.6 (12kw). They'll charge pretty much anything overnight, unless it's the smallest charger and biggest battery. People put them in their homes. Hotels and restaurants have them. Do the math, it's not hard. Going from 20% to 80% on a big 100kwh battery, you need 60kwh. That's 16hrs on the smallest level 2 charger or 5 hours on the fastest level 2 charger. How much will one need, and buy the next bigger charger.

DC fast chargers are a different beast. They are 50-350kw. To put that in perspective, a 100a panel in a lot of homes pops the main breaker at 24kw. Most of these chargers deliver power faster than a car battery can accept it, so are limited by the car. Ivy, Flo, ChargePoint, Tesla Supercharger are all different brands. Shell and Esso also have their own chargers too. They're a lot more expensive than home charging too. Some are 60c/kwh, and I've seen up to 80c/kwh. Others go by time. 50c/minute if you're trickling in power at 98%, or maxing out the charger.

People tend to avoid fast charging as much as reasonable because it's expensive. All that power is hard on batteries too. Charging at home is most preferred. Plug it in, go to bed, the "tank" is full (80% or whatever) and ready to go in the morning. Fast chargers are only used on long trips beyond a comfortable range from home. Even then, it's only as much as needed to get home. That's why people spend 10 minutes at a charger. It might take 30 or 45 minutes to go from 10-80%, but that rarely happens. People wanna go home and pay 20c/kwh (delivery fees, etc.) As compared 60+c at the charger. Literally, plug it in, take a leak, buy a coffee/sandwich, go back to the car and $5 later, there's enough battery to get home comfortably. Wanna drive from Toronto to Saskatoon? Yeah, you'll be charging at a lot ot fast chargers, but just buy an airplane ticket at that point. That drive in any car sounds terrible.

I really hope airports install level 1 chargers for pilot/FA parking. If every car shows up with a nearly dead battery and charges up a lot, let's overestimate at 80kwh if everyone had a massive battery. That's ~$15 in electricity costs. Over a 4 day pairing, it's charged. What's the parking fee? Do that 4 times a month for 16 days, it's still less than a parking pass costs. And that's the most expensive case scenario.

[Inverted2]

I’d love a level 1 charger 115v outlet to plug in my diesel trucks block heater. Nothing worse than waiting for a cold diesel to warm up after a long 4 dayer in January.

[cdnavater]

To answer your question. Yes, 1/2 tank would be plenty for 150 km trip since a full tank is 800 kms but I get your point, around where I am there is only one supercharger, there are some dc fast chargers but not tons and I have no idea what the difference is in charging time super vs fast.
Until superchargers are like gas stations, everywhere with multiple “pumps”, I can’t see making the switch. I have been looking at plug in hybrids as an option

One doesn't use a fast charger near where they live. You'd just charge at home overnight for cheaper.

Supercharger is basically Tesla brand for DC fast chargers.
Fast chargers are DC chargers. They're all the same thing

Level 1 = 120v, plug into the wall. They deliver typically 1.2kw. Great for charging over a long time. Charge at an airport parking lot over a 3 day pairing...except nobody has installed them yet. They could even turn them off at night to help balance the grid load. With my car, we don't drive a whole ton and we charge every 3rd or 4th night for about 10hrs. Even a busy day, or forget to charge for another 2 days, we'll catch up and get it back to 80%. I haven't found the need to buy a level 2 charger yet. My garage is wired for it, but the circuit sits empty.

Level 2 = 240v. They range from 16a to 40a (I've heard of 50a) and delivering 3.8kw to 9.6 (12kw). They'll charge pretty much anything overnight, unless it's the smallest charger and biggest battery. People put them in their homes. Hotels and restaurants have them. Do the math, it's not hard. Going from 20% to 80% on a big 100kwh battery, you need 60kwh. That's 16hrs on the smallest level 2 charger or 5 hours on the fastest level 2 charger. How much will one need, and buy the next bigger charger.

DC fast chargers are a different beast. They are 50-350kw. To put that in perspective, a 100a panel in a lot of homes pops the main breaker at 24kw. Most of these chargers deliver power faster than a car battery can accept it, so are limited by the car. Ivy, Flo, ChargePoint, Tesla Supercharger are all different brands. Shell and Esso also have their own chargers too. They're a lot more expensive than home charging too. Some are 60c/kwh, and I've seen up to 80c/kwh. Others go by time. 50c/minute if you're trickling in power at 98%, or maxing out the charger.

People tend to avoid fast charging as much as reasonable because it's expensive. All that power is hard on batteries too. Charging at home is most preferred. Plug it in, go to bed, the "tank" is full (80% or whatever) and ready to go in the morning. Fast chargers are only used on long trips beyond a comfortable range from home. Even then, it's only as much as needed to get home. That's why people spend 10 minutes at a charger. It might take 30 or 45 minutes to go from 10-80%, but that rarely happens. People wanna go home and pay 20c/kwh (delivery fees, etc.) As compared 60+c at the charger. Literally, plug it in, take a leak, buy a coffee/sandwich, go back to the car and $5 later, there's enough battery to get home comfortably. Wanna drive from Toronto to Saskatoon? Yeah, you'll be charging at a lot ot fast chargers, but just buy an airplane ticket at that point. That drive in any car sounds terrible.

I really hope airports install level 1 chargers for pilot/FA parking. If every car shows up with a nearly dead battery and charges up a lot, let's overestimate at 80kwh if everyone had a massive battery. That's ~$15 in electricity costs. Over a 4 day pairing, it's charged. What's the parking fee? Do that 4 times a month for 16 days, it's still less than a parking pass costs. And that's the most expensive case scenario.

Thanks, good information, I’m definitely interested in EV, I even have a 240v wired and ready to go in my garage, it’s the longer trips I like to take that is the hang up, day to day, I’m sure it would work. I’m Just hung up on the range of gas vehicles and available gas stations, until that improves, I’m probably going to wait it out.
I’m also a pessimist, so I fully anticipate the electric companies taking full advantage of the situation once more and more become dependent on electricity, I envision a day where it costs the same to fill a gas tank or charge a battery, or at least a lot closer.

[cdnavater]

You did it. You found the silver bullet that will kill EVs.
I refuse to drive a car if it can't run a heater for 25 hours. That's just irresponsible.




The mental gymnastics people go through to try and justify their irrational hatred towards EVs is extremely fascinating.

Man, what is it with some people

Where on earth did I say I hate EVs and was justifying my use of a internal combustion engine?

Let me spell it out for you. I like EVs, I think they're overall great, and I look forward to a future with them, they will for sure one day become the first option when it comes to propulsing source.

But at this time, for my needs, and for my own personal preference, I prefer an ICE engine. If an EV works for someone, I'm all for it

But don't for one second, think because someone isn't on the EV train, they are anti EV or hate them

The lunacy of this place never fails to amaze sometimes

My apologies, I wasn't replying to you personally but to the concern about the heater / idling time that was brought up as a negative aspect of EVs

Screw off, since it seems directed at me I’ll start with that!
As for concern about a heater, I was curious about what that could look like if stranded, there have been times where people were stranded on a highway for days in a blizzard, waiting for plows and tow trucks coming to dig and clear the way, a fuel vehicle with typically longer range wouldn’t be concerned as much and even worst case CAA can deliver 10 litres of fuel to get you on your way, does CAA deliver a battery top up yet?
It’s good to know, that maintaining the vehicle temperature in that situation doesn’t use as much “fuel” as an idling gas engine, so, thanks to the person who responded and removed that concern

[co-joe]

...
I lose about 2-4% if I leave the car for a week between -10 and -20.

...

Do you leave sentry mode on? If so that's not a bad loss for a week at all.

[Bingo Fuel]

...
I lose about 2-4% if I leave the car for a week between -10 and -20.

...

Do you leave sentry mode on? If so that's not a bad loss for a week at all.

I don't have a Tesla, but sometimes I wish I could use those superchargers! Hopefully that's coming soon.

[Bingo Fuel]

does CAA deliver a battery top up yet?

No, but CAA will tow an EV to the nearest charger.

Some EVs are also capable of sharing their battery through a function called "Vehicle to Load". So if there is an EV on the road with a lot of charge in their battery, they can charge a stranded EV through a 110V outlet at level 1 speeds (about 5 km per hour). After a bit, the stranded vehicle should be able to make it to a faster Level 2 or 3 charger to get the rest of the power it needs to continue. The vehicle donating the power can also place a limit on how much power it's willing to give.

The same feature can be used to power appliances at home in the event of a power outage.

[digits_]

does CAA deliver a battery top up yet?

No, but CAA will tow an EV to the nearest charger.

Some EVs are also capable of sharing their battery through a function called "Vehicle to Load". So if there is an EV on the road with a lot of charge in their battery, they can charge a stranded EV through a 110V outlet at level 1 speeds (about 5 km per hour). The vehicle donating the power can also place a limit on how much power it's willing to give.

The same feature can be used to power appliances at home in the event of a power outage.

Ooooh. Please tell me the 2 cars could drive at the same time connected with a power cord. Sort of like a virtual towing situation

[Bingo Fuel]

does CAA deliver a battery top up yet?

No, but CAA will tow an EV to the nearest charger.

Some EVs are also capable of sharing their battery through a function called "Vehicle to Load". So if there is an EV on the road with a lot of charge in their battery, they can charge a stranded EV through a 110V outlet at level 1 speeds (about 5 km per hour). The vehicle donating the power can also place a limit on how much power it's willing to give.

The same feature can be used to power appliances at home in the event of a power outage.

Ooooh. Please tell me the 2 cars could drive at the same time connected with a power cord. Sort of like a virtual towing situation

Nah, you're not able to shift into drive while plugged in.

[twa22]

No, but CAA will tow an EV to the nearest charger.

Some EVs are also capable of sharing their battery through a function called "Vehicle to Load". So if there is an EV on the road with a lot of charge in their battery, they can charge a stranded EV through a 110V outlet at level 1 speeds (about 5 km per hour). The vehicle donating the power can also place a limit on how much power it's willing to give.

The same feature can be used to power appliances at home in the event of a power outage.

Ooooh. Please tell me the 2 cars could drive at the same time connected with a power cord. Sort of like a virtual towing situation

Nah, you're not able to shift into drive while plugged in.

Theoretically, you can charge a Tesla by simply being towed in drive, don't know about other EVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nILM_DEdBqM

Would I recommend doing it? Probably not, buy hey, if you're in a pinch, it could work

[digits_]

Ooooh. Please tell me the 2 cars could drive at the same time connected with a power cord. Sort of like a virtual towing situation

Nah, you're not able to shift into drive while plugged in.

Theoretically, you can charge a Tesla by simply being towed in drive, don't know about other EVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nILM_DEdBqM

Would I recommend doing it? Probably not, buy hey, if you're in a pinch, it could work

Are you saying that if you pull the Tesla back far enough, it will go forward really fast?

[throwawaycorporate]

Thanks, good information, I’m definitely interested in EV, I even have a 240v wired and ready to go in my garage, it’s the longer trips I like to take that is the hang up, day to day, I’m sure it would work. I’m Just hung up on the range of gas vehicles and available gas stations, until that improves, I’m probably going to wait it out.
I’m also a pessimist, so I fully anticipate the electric companies taking full advantage of the situation once more and more become dependent on electricity, I envision a day where it costs the same to fill a gas tank or charge a battery, or at least a lot closer.

The idea behind EV's is to re-wire the brain to stop thinking about "Where is a gas station" and rather "Where am I going to take my vehicle". The idea is not to plan to use chargers outside of home/work(if it's free/accessible/cheap). This way you get to save the time spent pumping gas and waiting for your vehicle to heat up / cool down. Simply get in at a comfortable temperature, and go.

For some road trips, it may make sense to try to take an EV, but often it will take longer supercharging than it would in an ICE vehicle. Someone who drives more than 400K away from home often is likely served better by an ICE.

However for the person that goes on road trips a few times a year, there is often better value in owning an EV for 95% of your driving (it really is more comfortable) and then renting an ICE vehicle for the times it doesn't make sense. Many people keep their old ICE as a secondary when buying an EV to trial. I'm sure it exists, but I've never heard someone buy an EV and then continue to drive their ICE vehicle more often.