TA

[BE02 Driver]

Well if getting in the ball park of Frontier Airlines and Allegiant, the second lowest and lowest paid major airlines in the US, which are both currently in negotiations for a new contracts was the goal, then mission accomplished.

At least you get paid more than US regional pilots now.

Personally I'd still take a US regional job over AC. My take home pay would be quite a bit higher in most US states.

[khedrei]

Well if getting in the ball park of Frontier Airlines and Allegiant, the second lowest and lowest paid major airlines in the US, which are both currently in negotiations for a new contracts was the goal, then mission accomplished.

At least you get paid more than US regional pilots now.

Personally I'd still take a US regional job over AC. My take home pay would be quite a bit higher in most US states.

Huh? Pretty sure even the worst paid regional in the US start hight than 79k. Even if you did dollar for dollar.

[daedalusx]

The fact that they couldn’t even get QOL improvements for commuting and reserve on top of below WJ wages for year 1-4 after a 98% strike votes is absolutely demoralizing. A true black pill for Canadian aviation. The leverage is gone now, even if it gets voted down this is what is going get set by arbitration.

[Dockjock]

I’ve never felt more Canadian. Huzzah

[rudder]

Other than WB CA (including 767F), where are the ‘yes’ votes going to come from?

[PeanutGallery]

The MEC spent too much time and money on talking a big game and not enough on actually doing their jobs I guess.

Great social media campaign, lots of public support, and this is the deal? They didn't even wait until flights had to be cancelled?

The only ones with a backbone in aviation anymore are the mechanics I guess.

[dontcallmeshirley]

The MEC spent too much time and money on talking a big game and not enough on actually doing their jobs I guess.

Great social media campaign, lots of public support, and this is the deal? They didn't even wait until flights had to be cancelled?

The only ones with a backbone in aviation anymore are the mechanics I guess.

That is exactly what happened at WestJet and what happened at Encore.

The ALPA way is to promise the world and tell you that they did great when they brought you a bag of peanuts.

[Jfthepilot]

Can someone explain the new training freeze? How is this good for new hires?

Anyone that doesn’t want YZ base, getting assigned 220, 330 or 767 in initial, does it mean you are now frozen for 36 months?

[digits_]

I am wondering what the carefully selected examples are going to be on the road show to demonstrate how great this contract is.

An 18 year old that gets hired at AC and after one year becomes a wide body captain will over his whole career make more than a Delta career FO who gets hired when he's 55. Ergo this is truly a world class contract!

[777CA]

you guys are the joke of the industry, dragging down canadian aviation and salaries since 2000

[TheStig]

Can someone explain the new training freeze? How is this good for new hires?

Anyone that doesn’t want YZ base, getting assigned 220, 330 or 767 in initial, does it mean you are now frozen for 36 months?

The language hasn't been released yet.

[khedrei]

If these are the results when the negotiating team is "Fighting for the Jr guys" I would hate to see the results if they weren't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the sr guys got about 100k raise and the Jr guys got about 20k...

Kinda should have been the other way around no?

[AirCandida]

So ACPA is still around and running the show?

[lownslow]

What’s the opposite of BDE? That’s what this TA has.

I’m eager to see the horrifying fine print in the final language.

[sullecpt]

First 4 years if we assume the median is a A320 pilot at AC.

[rudder]

I am wondering what the carefully selected examples are going to be on the road show to demonstrate how great this contract is.

An 18 year old that gets hired at AC and after one year becomes a wide body captain will over his whole career make more than a Delta career FO who gets hired when he's 55. Ergo this is truly a world class contract!

Any way you slice it, other than early upgrade (will that still even be available?), the year 1-4 pilots got the boot taken to them.

Appallingly low flat pay for 2 years (nobody else does that) and then the NC/MEC goes out of its way to discount the year 3 and 4 WB FO hourly rates just to make sure that NONE of the year 1-4 pilots gets the kind of pay bump handed to the CA.

Unbelievable. I would have to think you are looking at at least an 80% rejection vote from the bottom 2000 pilots. The ACA MEC must be hoping they will get at least an 80% acceptance vote from the CA demographic who benefited the most from this TA.

[digits_]

I am wondering what the carefully selected examples are going to be on the road show to demonstrate how great this contract is.

An 18 year old that gets hired at AC and after one year becomes a wide body captain will over his whole career make more than a Delta career FO who gets hired when he's 55. Ergo this is truly a world class contract!

Any way you slice it, other than early upgrade (will that still even be available?), the year 1-4 pilots got the boot taken to them.

Appallingly low flat pay for 2 years (nobody else does that) and then the NC/MEC goes out of its way to discount the year 3 and 4 WB FO hourly rates just to make sure that NONE of the year 1-4 pilots gets the kind of pay bump handed to the CA.

Unbelievable. I would have to think you are looking at at least an 80% rejection vote from the bottom 2000 pilots. The ACA MEC must be hoping they will get at least an 80% acceptance vote from the CA demographic who benefited the most from this TA.

Oh I agree, but I am sure the colorful graphs on the roadshow will attempt to paint a completely different picture!

Some days I wonder if I made a mistake never switching to AC. On days like today, I don't.

[dontcallmeshirley]

When a union posts the signing-bonus amounts, you know that you're being sold a sub-par contract.

But hey, the year two FOs will enjoy a nice $20,000 one time payout.

[Jfthepilot]

How does the ratification pay works exactly? I’m not sure I understand fully the language in the summary.

[rudder]

When a union posts the signing-bonus amounts, you know that you're being sold a sub-par contract.

But hey, the year two FOs will enjoy a nice $20,000 one time payout.

Maybe they can put the after tax proceeds towards the line of credit that they have been living on since joining AC?

[RippleRock]

I am wondering what the carefully selected examples are going to be on the road show to demonstrate how great this contract is.

An 18 year old that gets hired at AC and after one year becomes a wide body captain will over his whole career make more than a Delta career FO who gets hired when he's 55. Ergo this is truly a world class contract!

Any way you slice it, other than early upgrade (will that still even be available?), the year 1-4 pilots got the boot taken to them.

Appallingly low flat pay for 2 years (nobody else does that) and then the NC/MEC goes out of its way to discount the year 3 and 4 WB FO hourly rates just to make sure that NONE of the year 1-4 pilots gets the kind of pay bump handed to the CA.

Unbelievable. I would have to think you are looking at at least an 80% rejection vote from the bottom 2000 pilots. The ACA MEC must be hoping they will get at least an 80% acceptance vote from the CA demographic who benefited the most from this TA.

This turd won't be getting any endorsement from me and I'm in the top 15%. I'm shellshocked right now.

The simple fact that the MEC released this after a full day of debate, shows that it WAS NOT unanimous. Do not EVER release a TA that does not have the unanimous support of the MEC. One "no" outlier maybe, but this was clearly a "split vote". Alarm bells were going off for me all day yesterday when I heard they were debating hard. We were poised to shut this show down, now nothing.

We have lost a lot of momentum with this move. The details of the "40 something" percent increase will be release to the public shortly, and we will be villified as greedy from all angles for wanting more. The Company will play this up HARD. Good luck with that.

There are almost NO quality of life improvements, PBS scheduling remains a nasty thorn, best fit remains to hound anyone on reserve, the AIF remains for commuters, still two years flat, daily credit barely moved, vacation credit hardly budges off of it's current pathetic allotment, pension indexing rate is a joke.

This is NOT World Class by ANY standard. We are still well below every US Legacy in pay rate, even without the conversion.


What a mess we're in now. I hope I'm missing something very, very big and this was a "long play" of some very strange sort.



Godspeed everyone.

[rudder]

https://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/ne ... 20proposal.

https://crankyflier.com/2015/07/13/delt ... -contract/

What’s the worst that can happen? The government/CIRB makes this TA the new CBA. Perhaps the ACA MEC knows that, at least the ones that voted ‘yes’.

[Launchpad1]

This TA is truly garbage. Why on earth did they agree to it. We had the support of everyone and they have thrown that away for this joke.

[sullecpt]

This TA is truly garbage. Why on earth did they agree to it. We had the support of everyone and they have thrown that away for this joke.

I cant wait to hear the boomers complain.

[rudder]

I am wondering what the carefully selected examples are going to be on the road show to demonstrate how great this contract is.

An 18 year old that gets hired at AC and after one year becomes a wide body captain will over his whole career make more than a Delta career FO who gets hired when he's 55. Ergo this is truly a world class contract!

Any way you slice it, other than early upgrade (will that still even be available?), the year 1-4 pilots got the boot taken to them.

Appallingly low flat pay for 2 years (nobody else does that) and then the NC/MEC goes out of its way to discount the year 3 and 4 WB FO hourly rates just to make sure that NONE of the year 1-4 pilots gets the kind of pay bump handed to the CA.

Unbelievable. I would have to think you are looking at at least an 80% rejection vote from the bottom 2000 pilots. The ACA MEC must be hoping they will get at least an 80% acceptance vote from the CA demographic who benefited the most from this TA.

This turd won't be getting any endorsement from me and I'm in the top 15%. I'm shellshocked right now.

The simple fact that the MEC released this after a full day of debate, shows that it WAS NOT unanimous. Do not EVER release a TA that does not have the unanimous support of the MEC. One "no" outlier maybe, but this was clearly a "split vote". Alarm bells were going off for me all day yesterday when I heard they were debating hard. We were poised to shut this show down, now nothing.

We have lost a lot of momentum with this move. The details of the "40 something" percent increase will be release to the public shortly, and we will be villified as greedy from all angles for wanting more. The Company will play this up HARD. Good luck with that.

There are almost NO quality of life improvements, PBS scheduling remains a nasty thorn, best fit remains to hound anyone on reserve, the AIF remains for commuters, still two years flat, daily credit barely moved, vacation credit hardly budges off of it's current pathetic allotment, pension indexing rate is a joke.

This is NOT World Class by ANY standard. We are still well below every US Legacy in pay rate, even without the conversion.


What a mess we're in now. I hope I'm missing something very, very big and this was a "long play" of some very strange sort.



Godspeed everyone.

Since 2003 (CCAA), the AC Pilot CBA has been a joke.

It would appear that trend has the potential to be extended until 2028. Almost zero recouped since the bankruptcy CBA, FOS, and then the self-inflicted Contract 2015 concessions.

Hard to believe.