Yr 1 FO $130k

[Shadow_vpfo]

Of course you don't need to justify it to anyone but yourselves.

Just like you have a right to your opinion, others have a right to a differing one as well. That is the difference in all of this discourse. You feel there is only one view (yours).

If you can't stand the heat, turn on the APU and get out of the cockpit.

Did I strike a nerve Beeker? I've read nearly every post you've made.

Here's another opinion for you. Not worth the time.

I’m still waiting for accountant to explain WestJet getting 6x his estimate, why they got such a high # and why he was so far off.

Maybe they were just unprepared.

[PositiveRate27]

Did I strike a nerve Beeker? I've read nearly every post you've made.

Here's another opinion for you. Not worth the time.

I’m still waiting for accountant to explain WestJet getting 6x his estimate, why they got such a high # and why he was so far off.

Maybe they were just unprepared.

Who knows? I keep putting the question forward and he never gets back to me… oh well… I’ll keep trying to figure this one out.

[Apestogetherstrong]

If every single FO and Captain were to say NO to anything below yr 1 salary of $130k, the entire Canadian industry will change. Know your value. Show your value to accountant and digits. They know how much value every pilot has. They know that if pilots were to strike Air Canada cannot park planes more than 3 days and will suffer such a big loss that recovery will take months. They just hate pilots cuz girls dont like them and want to hangout with pilots(jk jk fr). Jokes aside, I hope this message reaches all. Dont accept ANYTHING below $130k year one. No more flat pay shit. You’re worth it! You worked hard! You gave so many exams and passed a lot of tests. You spent a fortune on education. You suffered during covid. Now is the time to fight for your worth. VOTE NO BELOW $130. Whats the worst that could happen? Planes get parked for 3 days. Its time to rise above. Show your value.

[throwawaycorporate]

As someone on the outside here, I feel this 130K year 1 is touted by those hoping to go to AC but can't afford the pay cut.

Most pilots will be passed year 1 so why would they focus their energy on year 1.

[cdnavater]

As someone on the outside here, I feel this 130K year 1 is touted by those hoping to go to AC but can't afford the pay cut.

Most pilots will be passed year 1 so why would they focus their energy on year 1.

Typical eat your young mentality, they are forecasting 1200 new hire pilot by the end of 2025, I suspect they will need to up the ante to continue to attract that many pilots.

[JHR]

It is in the company's interest to do away with flat pay in order to attract a better quality applicant. Do not waste bargaining capital trying to get rid of flat pay.

[Canadaflyer46]

Why would the company care about the quality of applicants/experience level. This is Canada. They can go down to 250 hours if they really need to. AC mgmt would likely prefer to keep the pay as low as possible to maximize their bonuses surely. If you want rid of flat pay, the company will want something in return. Just comes down to how much bargaining capital guys are prepared to give up for those that aren’t at the company yet.

[jpilot77]

I actually think the company will throw money at us, but they won’t budge an inch for QOL improvements (cause that will require hiring even more pilots).

[JHR]

Didn't the company already offer 2yrs flat instead of 4?

[Apestogetherstrong]

If the company gets rid of the flat pay and brings yr one salary to $130k what do you think is going to happen to the rest of they years? The numbers will go up anyway. So dont be a fool by saying we shouldnt focus on yr 1. If you set a great yr one salary i. $130k, the rest of the pilot group salary is going to increase itself. Dont repeat past mistakes by not focusing on the yr 1 salary. This sole reason has kept canadian pilots poor across the board. Think like an American. Know your value! Dont sell out cheap. Dont be a cheap Canadian!

[BTD]

Why would the company care about the quality of applicants/experience level. This is Canada. They can go down to 250 hours if they really need to. AC mgmt would likely prefer to keep the pay as low as possible to maximize their bonuses surely. If you want rid of flat pay, the company will want something in return. Just comes down to how much bargaining capital guys are prepared to give up for those that aren’t at the company yet.

There is a reason the company is forcing those with jet time on to the widebody. There is a reason the VP is telling people consider not going RP to captain. They don’t want new hires with only 1900 time paired together over the pacific at night, or dodging thunderstorms heading south to Lima, while the captain sleeps in the bunk. They recognize the conundrum, and while some lower time new hires is no problem, they can’t have 50 a month coming in to all seats with only 2000 hrs of light turboprop time. Removing flat pay eases some of that pressure, because the financial incentives for the pilot aligns with the more experience (senior) taking the higher paying position. Not always and not for everyone but it helps.

[BTD]

If the company gets rid of the flat pay and brings yr one salary to $130k what do you think is going to happen to the rest of they years? The numbers will go up anyway. So dont be a fool by saying we shouldnt focus on yr 1. If you set a great yr one salary i. $130k, the rest of the pilot group salary is going to increase itself. Dont repeat past mistakes by not focusing on the yr 1 salary. This sole reason has kept canadian pilots poor across the board. Think like an American. Know your value! Dont sell out cheap. Dont be a cheap Canadian!

Focus on the salary yes, but not the flat pay structure. That is more than likely on the way out regardless.

[Core]

As someone on the outside here, I feel this 130K year 1 is touted by those hoping to go to AC but can't afford the pay cut.

Most pilots will be passed year 1 so why would they focus their energy on year 1.

Typical eat your young mentality, they are forecasting 1200 new hire pilot by the end of 2025, I suspect they will need to up the ante to continue to attract that many pilots.

100%. At my spot the 4 year pay cut is the single overwhelming factor preventing people from moving to AC. Schedule is second. Fix that and you'd have an overnight flood of experienced applicants from places other than the regionals.

[dillpickle]

Focus on the salary yes, but not the flat pay structure. That is more than likely on the way out regardless.

Personally I'd like to see it changed to "probationary pay" and have a similar system to Delta. One that can get you off probation faster or slower depending on total time flown, and recurrent etc. No more of this bullshit 3 months + 1 year and an interview to be released. The interview portion isn't even a contractual requirement to be released, yet somehow we still allow the FOM to govern this.

[dillpickle]

Didn't the company already offer 2yrs flat instead of 4?

Yeah, coupled with a ton of bullshit gives in the failed MOA. The flat pay going to 2 years was a distraction.

[altiplano]

Remove 4 year flat and the seniority on WB FO spots will realign after the first bid.. There won't be new hires on them any more. Same with 320/737 to an extent once the shortage is further addressed.

New hires will be joining as RPs and 220 FOs for the most part.

I'd love to see $130K year 1, but I think everyone is going to be disappointed if that's their expectation. I have high expectations across the board, but I believe you will see $80-90K first year probation pay and then go formula pay and that's a big win. I would take that over 2 year flat at a higher rate. Get everyone on formula ASAP.

[daedalusx]

Remove 4 year flat and the seniority on WB FO spots will realign after the first bid.. There won't be new hires on them any more.

Exactly this. 100%.

[accountant]

Remove 4 year flat and the seniority on WB FO spots will realign after the first bid.. There won't be new hires on them any more.

Exactly this. 100%.

Good luck getting this when the hold the liners want to eat cake before you do.

Get in line and fight it out.

Hunger Games here we go!

[RippleRock]

Remove 4 year flat and the seniority on WB FO spots will realign after the first bid.. There won't be new hires on them any more.

Exactly this. 100%.

Good luck getting this when the hold the liners want to eat cake before you do.

Get in line and fight it out.

Hunger Games here we go!

You're descending into the "idiotic pathological depths" now. It's clear you have a vendetta.

Get help before it's too late. Or just do everyone a big favour and GF yourself.


Everyone else...

HOLD THE LINE

[flying4dollars]

I really don't understand the obsession with entertaining 'accountant'. It doesn't matter what the outsiders think. Don't feed the trolls kids!!

[kevin552000]

From 130k expected about a year ago to about 80k offered today...

[rudder]

From 130k expected about a year ago to about 80k offered today...

$110k @ DL/US/AA/SWA/FDX

2nd yr $170k.

Canadian discount.

[CaptDukeNukem]

From 130k expected about a year ago to about 80k offered today...

$110k @ DL/US/AA/SWA/FDX

2nd yr $170k.

Canadian discount.

The NHL of airlines.

[cjp]

These posts did not age well.

[Launchpad1]

These posts did not age well.

This is what happens when you believe 'the maximum leverage point' is before you strike