17 days??!!!

[altiplano]

Right.

In the end, the richest person in the world would trade it all for more time.

Nobody looks back and regrets not spending more time at work.

[Texarcana]

There are problems with this deal, but that's the biggest one.

Not money, but time. Time is the most valuable thing and this company abuses our time because they aren't made to adequately pay for it.

50% duty day. 50% DH.

Still it's going to be a 65% yes vote I am sure. Maybe better. People here still don't value themselves properly, and they don't value their time.

You forgot a few things, obviously.


The hours and hours we work — for free — as we watch other departments fail all around us, weather, ATC inefficiencies, etc, etc. that’s a non starter for me.

I voted NO.

You and I are AC pilots, it’s our professional destiny. We’re a bunch with beaten spouse syndrome, democracy, all those good things. Suck it up.

It’s the 8.4 rule, it’s been the 8.4 rule since we joined in 95.

I hope you and RR will spend less time thinking and obsessing about something so out of your control.

Remember, 8.4

[Victory]

It was any easy no for me. Like, it's not even close. I have no fear of any backroom threats from the labour minister. I actually want them to force us back to work publicly. Not in the shadows, so nobody can see what they are doing to us.

[Texarcana]

It was any easy no for me. Like, it's not even close. I have no fear of any backroom threats from the labour minister. I actually want them to force us back to work publicly. Not in the shadows, so nobody can see what they are doing to us.

Post of the year.

Not enough of us unfortunately.

I wish we could have two unions at Air Canada.

[goingnowherefast]

As someone still under 30 who was debating making the jump to AC from a rival carrier, I’d like to thank the AC NC for making my decision to not apply to AC a no brainer. The more I hear about this TA from friends/online the more relieved I am that I stayed put.

Way to raise the bar, keep on flying that flag

Don't fault the NC, they'd have gone for it if they could. It lies with AC management for stubbornly denying the obvious, easy and cheap things to fix. Yr 1 and 2 are so low, and there's so few people that are at that level. It wouldn't take much money to pay them significantly more. $1.9B extra in this contract? Make it $1.95B and pay it mostly to yr. 1 and 2. Then the experience level of AC applicants will improve. Maybe even encourage young kids to get into this profession.

[Victory]

Not enough of us unfortunately.

There's a silent majority.

[altiplano]

There are problems with this deal, but that's the biggest one.

Not money, but time. Time is the most valuable thing and this company abuses our time because they aren't made to adequately pay for it.

50% duty day. 50% DH.

Still it's going to be a 65% yes vote I am sure. Maybe better. People here still don't value themselves properly, and they don't value their time.

You forgot a few things, obviously.

The hours and hours we work — for free — as we watch other departments fail all around us, weather, ATC inefficiencies, etc, etc. that’s a non starter for me.

I voted NO.

You and I are AC pilots, it’s our professional destiny. We’re a bunch with beaten spouse syndrome, democracy, all those good things. Suck it up.

It’s the 8.4 rule, it’s been the 8.4 rule since we joined in 95.

I hope you and RR will spend less time thinking and obsessing about something so out of your control.

Remember, 8.4

I didn't forget but didn't list out.everything, and you cut a bunch out, anyway, the essence remains - time and lack of respect for it. Slice it how you will.

I'm not sure what 8.4 or RR references. I'm not sure why you are telling me to "Suck it up"?

Not obsessing about anything, just posting my thoughts and partaking in discussion on avcanada.

[rudder]

It was any easy no for me. Like, it's not even close. I have no fear of any backroom threats from the labour minister. I actually want them to force us back to work publicly. Not in the shadows, so nobody can see what they are doing to us.

What about the treats from within? Subtle? Implied? But still threats.

[Victory]

What about the treats from within? Subtle? Implied? But still threats.

Which threats are you referring to specifically? Everything I read seemed completely made up and childlike.

[rudder]

What about the treats from within? Subtle? Implied? But still threats.

Which threats are you referring to specifically? Everything I read seemed completely made up and childlike.

Was referencing public comments (including Q&A or roadshow) from ALPA reps and/or counsel regarding the potential consequences of a ratification rejection result.

Hyperbole is not fact. It is at best conjecture and at worst simply opinion.

As for promises to resign - from the ACA MEC CHMN and others - that is barely worthy of comment. Leaders lead. They don’t play victim.

[Victory]

What about the treats from within? Subtle? Implied? But still threats.

Which threats are you referring to specifically? Everything I read seemed completely made up and childlike.

Was referencing public comments (including Q&A or roadshow) from ALPA reps and/or counsel regarding the potential consequences of a ratification rejection result.

Hyperbole is not fact. It is at best conjecture and at worst simply opinion.

As for promises to resign - from the ACA MEC CHMN and others - that is barely worthy of comment. Leaders lead. They don’t play victim.

I dunno it all seemed like fluff to me. I voted on the TA not a union official.

[Mr.Worldwide]

You guys are a bunch of dummies!!

After taking it on the chin for 20 years, AC pilots finally join ALPA to benefit from all their tremendous resources and knowledge. You elect a number of highly respected peers to lead this profession out of the gutter. They appoint a negotiating committee, who by all accounts, are among the best in the business. They employ all the resources available to them (EF&A, Legal, SMEs, etc.) from across the ALPA universe. They put in countless hours of work, meeting with the company, bargaining for over a year! Meanwhile the MEC leadership builds unity and whips the pilot group into a frenzy, providing the NC with the leverage it needed.

Finally they bring you a deal. A record breaking 42%!!

I've been flying for over 20 years, I've never seen raises like this! But all you keyboard cowboys can do is cry!! Suddenly you're all experts in labour law and everything the union says is a "sell job"! Everyone knows all the ins and outs of bargaining, and are well versed with all the political maneuvering in YOW. Supremely confident that AC had more to give more if only we pounded our fist on the table a little harder!! Cock sure that the public and politicos would still have our back after turning down 30% no wait, 42%!!! And blowing up their vacations at the same time! Yeah!!

Idiots!

Charlene plans to resign if this fails, well no duh! Delivering a record breaking contract, offering salvation! Only for AC pilots to vote it down, preferring to circle the toilet bowl of this 10 year deal for another year plus! How does that help you 1st year guys constantly beaking off on Slack? Goodbye retro, goodbye YOS grievance, goodbye 42%! Hello arbitration, how does WJ +$1.00 sound? Next time we enter open bargaining it'll be to get back what is on offer today! But hey at least we showed them!! right!!?

This vote is an intelligence test above all else, don't be a dummy!!

[yycflyguy]

No pilot should be forced to work more than 16 days. I don’t care if you’ve been at AC for 40 years or 40 hours.

Get over it.

I would argue 16 is too much. You should be able to be at home, uninterrupted at least half the month.

You can. It’s called seniority.

[ant_321]

No pilot should be forced to work more than 16 days. I don’t care if you’ve been at AC for 40 years or 40 hours.

Get over it.

I would argue 16 is too much. You should be able to be at home, uninterrupted at least half the month.

You can. It’s called seniority.

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

[Tbayer2021]

I would argue 16 is too much. You should be able to be at home, uninterrupted at least half the month.

You can. It’s called seniority.

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Most boomers with tell you a resounding yes. Since in their view, everyone else should have to go through what they did.

[yycflyguy]

I would argue 16 is too much. You should be able to be at home, uninterrupted at least half the month.

You can. It’s called seniority.

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Glad you got the point….

Oh don’t forget. That 60 year old CA was once junior too. Difference is, not many had the career chance to be an AC Captain at 35!

[Tbayer2021]

You can. It’s called seniority.

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Glad you got the point….

Oh don’t forget. That 60 year old CA was once junior too. Difference is, not many had the career chance to be an AC Captain at 35!

Yeah, all those skippers retiring with 40+ years of service sure had it tough!

[yycflyguy]

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Glad you got the point….

Oh don’t forget. That 60 year old CA was once junior too. Difference is, not many had the career chance to be an AC Captain at 35!

Yeah, all those skippers retiring with 40+ years of service sure had it tough!

Pretty rare you see anyone with 40 YOS. They exist for sure but the golden boys were the exception to the rule.

[Hangry]

You can. It’s called seniority.

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Glad you got the point….

Oh don’t forget. That 60 year old CA was once junior too. Difference is, not many had the career chance to be an AC Captain at 35!

Boomer Alert! I’m glad this way of thinking is disappearing as the dinosaurs retire.

Punishment of the juniors has its days numbered.

Will take time but hopefully this will be a thing of the past.

[Texarcana]

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Glad you got the point….

Oh don’t forget. That 60 year old CA was once junior too. Difference is, not many had the career chance to be an AC Captain at 35!

Boomer Alert! I’m glad this way of thinking is disappearing as the dinosaurs retire.

Punishment of the juniors has its days numbered.

Will take time but hopefully this will be a thing of the past.

Im sure it will.
Only to be replaced with another division.
It’s the way we do things around here.
Short term personal greed over long term collective health.

One boomers opinion
One boomer who voted no
But I suspect I’ll be outvoted
It’s a democracy

It’s the 8.4 thing

[ItsGoodEnough]

You guys are a bunch of dummies!!

After taking it on the chin for 20 years, AC pilots finally join ALPA to benefit from all their tremendous resources and knowledge. You elect a number of highly respected peers to lead this profession out of the gutter. They appoint a negotiating committee, who by all accounts, are among the best in the business. They employ all the resources available to them (EF&A, Legal, SMEs, etc.) from across the ALPA universe. They put in countless hours of work, meeting with the company, bargaining for over a year! Meanwhile the MEC leadership builds unity and whips the pilot group into a frenzy, providing the NC with the leverage it needed.

Finally they bring you a deal. A record breaking 42%!!

I've been flying for over 20 years, I've never seen raises like this! But all you keyboard cowboys can do is cry!! Suddenly you're all experts in labour law and everything the union says is a "sell job"! Everyone knows all the ins and outs of bargaining, and are well versed with all the political maneuvering in YOW. Supremely confident that AC had more to give more if only we pounded our fist on the table a little harder!! Cock sure that the public and politicos would still have our back after turning down 30% no wait, 42%!!! And blowing up their vacations at the same time! Yeah!!

Idiots!

Charlene plans to resign if this fails, well no duh! Delivering a record breaking contract, offering salvation! Only for AC pilots to vote it down, preferring to circle the toilet bowl of this 10 year deal for another year plus! How does that help you 1st year guys constantly beaking off on Slack? Goodbye retro, goodbye YOS grievance, goodbye 42%! Hello arbitration, how does WJ +$1.00 sound? Next time we enter open bargaining it'll be to get back what is on offer today! But hey at least we showed them!! right!!?

This vote is an intelligence test above all else, don't be a dummy!!

What’s “Slack”?

[freighter27]

I would argue 16 is too much. You should be able to be at home, uninterrupted at least half the month.

You can. It’s called seniority.

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Not an expert, but isn't part of the attraction of Air Canada the ability to bid for lifestyle over pay?

I heard that the union surveys showed an overwhelming preference for pay over scheduling improvements.

Couldn't your 35 yr old Captain choose to bjd for a position where he or she would be senior enough to get a decent schedule? Or is the pursuit of higher pay supposed to carry no adverse effects?

[yycflyguy]

You can. It’s called seniority.

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Not an expert, but isn't part of the attraction of Air Canada the ability to bid for lifestyle over pay?

I heard that the union surveys showed an overwhelming preference for pay over scheduling improvements.

Couldn't your 35 yr old Captain choose to bjd for a position where he or she would be senior enough to get a decent schedule? Or is the pursuit of higher pay supposed to carry no adverse effects?

Exactly. That’s the beauty of a seniority based system. Chase the money, chase a destination or chase a lifestyle. The options are yours.

So the 35 year old captain with 2 young kids at home should be on the road 18 per month so the 60 year old can only work 8. Got it. Makes sense.

Glad you got the point….

Oh don’t forget. That 60 year old CA was once junior too. Difference is, not many had the career chance to be an AC Captain at 35!

Boomer Alert! I’m glad this way of thinking is disappearing as the dinosaurs retire.

Punishment of the juniors has its days numbered.

Will take time but hopefully this will be a thing of the past.

Hangry

If you don’t understand demographic basics (hint: I’m not a Boomer) I don’t expect you to understand the wildly complicated concept of seniority

Carry on with your millennial entitlement. (You see? Two can play the generalization game)

[cdnavater]

What a friggen generation we have to deal with now!
This is not a situation where because I had to deal with it so do you, seniority is something that takes time to accrue and benefit from all the things that come with it.
When my kids we young, Christmas was when ever dad could be home around that time, now that my kids are older, I have the seniority to be home for Christmas, guess what, both are in their 30s and married but still come home for Christmas and I am supposed to what, let you friggen want it now generation have it instead!
If you want social bidding, GO TO WESTJET!

[Hangry]

What a friggen generation we have to deal with now!
This is not a situation where because I had to deal with it so do you, seniority is something that takes time to accrue and benefit from all the things that come with it.
When my kids we young, Christmas was when ever dad could be home around that time, now that my kids are older, I have the seniority to be home for Christmas, guess what, both are in their 30s and married but still come home for Christmas and I am supposed to what, let you friggen want it now generation have it instead!
If you want social bidding, GO TO WESTJET!

Lolz