Which airline offers the least amount of flying?

[digits_]

Which airline should one apply at if one's goal would be to fly the least amount as possible? Let's say the goal is to build seniority until you can hold your desired base/equipment, and frankly, fly (hypothetically) zero flights if at all possible the first few years.

For comparison sake, let's assume the AC TA gets accepted. I remember reading in the WestJet topics that the new contract allows for quite some trip drops. But what about the others?

[nohojob]

Ask for a leave of absence.

Zero flights for a few years while being paid for flying !

[Daigo]

I hear that Transat is second to none when it comes to QOL

[digits_]

Ask for a leave of absence.

Zero flights for a few years while being paid for flying !

I think the general idea is that during a LOA you don't accrue seniority. From what I understand it's also not guaranteed, you need a good reason, and the company might not be inclined to approve it to junior crew members?

To clarify: I'm not looking to get paid for no flights, perfectly happy to not get paid for anything, as long as the seniority accrues. Or 50% of 'normal' flying for 50% of the 'normal' salary. All that would work fine for this situation.

[Tbayer2021]

Ask for a leave of absence.

Zero flights for a few years while being paid for flying !

I think the general idea is that during a LOA you don't accrue seniority. From what I understand it's also not guaranteed, you need a good reason, and the company might not be inclined to approve it to junior crew members?

To clarify: I'm not looking to get paid for no flights, perfectly happy to not get paid for anything, as long as the seniority accrues. Or 50% of 'normal' flying for 50% of the 'normal' salary. All that would work fine for this situation.

I'm not aware of any company where your seniority changes while on LOA. Seniority is set in stone as your date of hire. What you may not accrue depending on the type of leave you're on is, YoS for the purposes of salary, vacation ,etc.

So let's assume you start at a company and immediately take a 5 year LOA. You return after 5 years to your year 1 FO salary and whatever your year 1 vacation accrual was. But you will still be senior to anyone hired after you for the purposes of schedule, equipment and vacation bidding.

[digits_]

Ask for a leave of absence.

Zero flights for a few years while being paid for flying !

I think the general idea is that during a LOA you don't accrue seniority. From what I understand it's also not guaranteed, you need a good reason, and the company might not be inclined to approve it to junior crew members?

To clarify: I'm not looking to get paid for no flights, perfectly happy to not get paid for anything, as long as the seniority accrues. Or 50% of 'normal' flying for 50% of the 'normal' salary. All that would work fine for this situation.

I'm not aware of any company where your seniority changes while on LOA. Seniority is set in stone as your date of hire. What you may not accrue depending on the type of leave you're on is, YoS for the purposes of salary, vacation ,etc.

So let's assume you start at a company and immediately take a 5 year LOA. You return after 5 years to your year 1 FO salary and whatever your year 1 vacation accrual was. But you will still be senior to anyone hired after you for the purposes of schedule, equipment and vacation bidding.

Thank you for the clarification!

[porcsord]

Seems like a good way around flat pay. Likely not approved, but that would be a brilliant scheme for someone with a good job, who doesn't want to take a massive pay cut for the eventual higher salary.

[Tbayer2021]

Seems like a good way around flat pay. Likely not approved, but that would be a brilliant scheme for someone with a good job, who doesn't want to take a massive pay cut for the eventual higher salary.

It isn't a way around flat pay as your salary progression stops. So even if you were to get an LoA approved and return after 4 years, you'd start at year 1 FO pay.

[digits_]

Seems like a good way around flat pay. Likely not approved, but that would be a brilliant scheme for someone with a good job, who doesn't want to take a massive pay cut for the eventual higher salary.

It isn't a way around flat pay as your salary progression stops. So even if you were to get an LoA approved and return after 4 years, you'd start at year 1 FO pay.

Right, but what about trip drops? Are there airlines that would allow you to drop 75% of your trips for example? Or is it limited to a certain degree?

[Me262]

Ask for a leave of absence.

Zero flights for a few years while being paid for flying !

I think the general idea is that during a LOA you don't accrue seniority. From what I understand it's also not guaranteed, you need a good reason, and the company might not be inclined to approve it to junior crew members?

To clarify: I'm not looking to get paid for no flights, perfectly happy to not get paid for anything, as long as the seniority accrues. Or 50% of 'normal' flying for 50% of the 'normal' salary. All that would work fine for this situation.

Jazz has reduced time blocks where you're basically on duty only 9 days a month for 50% pay. Seniority accrues, you still have the health, travel benefits, etc. Not sure what other company has this option out there. AC doesn't have this?

[thepoors]

Ask for a leave of absence.

Zero flights for a few years while being paid for flying !

I think the general idea is that during a LOA you don't accrue seniority. From what I understand it's also not guaranteed, you need a good reason, and the company might not be inclined to approve it to junior crew members?

To clarify: I'm not looking to get paid for no flights, perfectly happy to not get paid for anything, as long as the seniority accrues. Or 50% of 'normal' flying for 50% of the 'normal' salary. All that would work fine for this situation.

Jazz has reduced time blocks where you're basically on duty only 9 days a month for 50% pay. Seniority accrues, you still have the health, travel benefits, etc. Not sure what other company has this option out there. AC doesn't have this?

Yes, AC has VBR - voluntary block reduction.

[thepoors]

Seems like a good way around flat pay. Likely not approved, but that would be a brilliant scheme for someone with a good job, who doesn't want to take a massive pay cut for the eventual higher salary.

It isn't a way around flat pay as your salary progression stops. So even if you were to get an LoA approved and return after 4 years, you'd start at year 1 FO pay.

In theory you could take an LOA and return when your seniority allows you to hold left seat, thereby skipping flat pay. Right now that could be as little as 18 months. Whether you could pass a command course not having flown at AC for that long is another question.

[digits_]

I think the general idea is that during a LOA you don't accrue seniority. From what I understand it's also not guaranteed, you need a good reason, and the company might not be inclined to approve it to junior crew members?

To clarify: I'm not looking to get paid for no flights, perfectly happy to not get paid for anything, as long as the seniority accrues. Or 50% of 'normal' flying for 50% of the 'normal' salary. All that would work fine for this situation.

Jazz has reduced time blocks where you're basically on duty only 9 days a month for 50% pay. Seniority accrues, you still have the health, travel benefits, etc. Not sure what other company has this option out there. AC doesn't have this?

Yes, AC has VBR - voluntary block reduction.

How low could one theoretically go with this system?

[DanWEC]

Generally if your airline has pass-down on reserve, as all majors do, if you have decently high seniority you can bid reserve and then rarely fly. You'll actually have to take the occasional flight or go into the sim for recency.

[yowflyer23]

I think the general idea is that during a LOA you don't accrue seniority. From what I understand it's also not guaranteed, you need a good reason, and the company might not be inclined to approve it to junior crew members?

To clarify: I'm not looking to get paid for no flights, perfectly happy to not get paid for anything, as long as the seniority accrues. Or 50% of 'normal' flying for 50% of the 'normal' salary. All that would work fine for this situation.

Jazz has reduced time blocks where you're basically on duty only 9 days a month for 50% pay. Seniority accrues, you still have the health, travel benefits, etc. Not sure what other company has this option out there. AC doesn't have this?

Yes, AC has VBR - voluntary block reduction.

How does it work? Same as Jazz?

[Canadaflyer46]

Generally if your airline has pass-down on reserve, as all majors do, if you have decently high seniority you can bid reserve and then rarely fly. You'll actually have to take the occasional flight or go into the sim for recency.

Doesn’t work so well with the ‘best fit’ system that we have at WJ. Very rare you have the chance to pass off as we often only have a couple of captains on reserve per base if that.

[thepoors]

Jazz has reduced time blocks where you're basically on duty only 9 days a month for 50% pay. Seniority accrues, you still have the health, travel benefits, etc. Not sure what other company has this option out there. AC doesn't have this?

Yes, AC has VBR - voluntary block reduction.

How does it work? Same as Jazz?

Very similar, I'm too lazy to look up the details

[altiplano]

VBRs aren't always on offer for all positions.

Maybe get hired and then go on medical leave while on course. They can't refuse medical, it's protected human rights stuff, but you'll need to find a reason or get good at acting. We have guys with years of seniority that have never flown an Air Canada jet.

You'll acquire years of service for pay progression too on medical leave. I think the company even pays your pension contribution.

Or even better get hurt at work! Those stairs from the bridge are steep and everyone knows airside drivers are dangerous.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Amazing, get hired. And work zero or as little as possible until you hold a high ranking seniority position or command. Great way to further your career.

Where the sarcasm emoji

[DanWEC]

Generally if your airline has pass-down on reserve, as all majors do, if you have decently high seniority you can bid reserve and then rarely fly. You'll actually have to take the occasional flight or go into the sim for recency.

Doesn’t work so well with the ‘best fit’ system that we have at WJ. Very rare you have the chance to pass off as we often only have a couple of captains on reserve per base if that.

I didn't realize Westjet has best fit.

Was that a company sell at some point?
What's done is done, but for others, if It's something that if ever comes up in negotiations, do not ever accept!

[digits_]

Amazing, get hired. And work zero or as little as possible until you hold a high ranking seniority position or command. Great way to further your career.

Where the sarcasm emoji

How would working more benefit your career? If you join with some experience, it's only seniority that stands between you and your favorite base/equipment/seat. 5000, 10000 or 20000 hours doesn't matter ...

[Eric Janson]

How would working more benefit your career? If you join with some experience, it's only seniority that stands between you and your favorite base/equipment/seat. 5000, 10000 or 20000 hours doesn't matter ...

I've certainly benefitted from flying more.

Gained a great deal of experience and knowledge in the process.

I learn something on every flight - but maybe that's just me.

I fly to all 7 continents and to places most people have never heard of. I enjoy the challenge.

[nohojob]

Just common sense, the more experience you have the better you get (safer...etc.)

[digits_]

Just common sense, the more experience you have the better you get (safer...etc.)

That it potentially benefits your flying skills does not confirm or contradict my statement that after a certain skill level, once you're in a seniority environment, gaining more experience will not benefit your career. It won't hurt it either, but in itself I don't see 'career progression' as a reason to fly as much as possible. Will someone at AC or WJ have a faster career progression if they fly 800 hours a year instead of 300 (assuming they meet formal upgrade requirements if applicable)?

[nohojob]

Just common sense, the more experience you have the better you get (safer...etc.)

That it potentially benefits your flying skills does not confirm or contradict my statement that after a certain skill level, once you're in a seniority environment, gaining more experience will not benefit your career. It won't hurt it either, but in itself I don't see 'career progression' as a reason to fly as much as possible. Will someone at AC or WJ have a faster career progression if they fly 800 hours a year instead of 300 (assuming they meet formal upgrade requirements if applicable)?

You have a point, however flying as little as possible may lead you to lack proficiency.
That could hurt during an upgrade. Also, considering the job with the least possible effort doesn't make you happier. At least that's how I see it.