“2” on Initial/Recurrent PPC

[Avworld1984]

Just wondering how relevant is a “2” (major error) on an initial or recurrent PPC (705 ops) in terms of future captain upgrade or applying to other airlines in Canada and overseas. Just had my first “2” on a recurrent PPC even though I prepared for it as best as I could. It was a stupid mistake that got me a 2 and I own to it.

Thanks!

[nohojob]

I am not sure you can find someone who never got a 2 on a PPC.

[cdnavater]

Just wondering how relevant is a “2” (major error) on an initial or recurrent PPC (705 ops) in terms of future captain upgrade or applying to other airlines in Canada and overseas. Just had my first “2” on a recurrent PPC even though I prepared for it as best as I could. It was a stupid mistake that got me a 2 and I own to it.

Thanks!

I wouldn’t worry about it too much, in general your training record at the 705 level is in house use, failures would be an issue if it’s a common occurrence.
For example, Captains are allowed two 2s on a PPC, a third 2 is a failure, where FOs are allowed four, five 2s is a failure, your training record is used for becoming a training pilot and I’m sure to an extent for the upgrade but not to deny you the chance, more so if you’re struggling and end up at the review board

[goingnowherefast]

Pretty sure getting a 2 on ocassion makes no difference. Honestly, they'll probably file it away and never consider it.

What's more important than the 2, is how you react to it. Fight with the ACP, rant to the chief pilot, and be a general asshole? Yeah you're gonna have a bad name, and it will affect the future. (There is a process for challenging a PPC report, but not going into that here). As you said, it was a mistake, you owned it, and no doubt learned from it. Thats the correct way to handle it. I've gotten lots of 2s spread across many PPC rides. Each one a lesson learned. Despite it, they let me be a 705 training captain.

There are many more important considerations when being considered for an upgrade or a reference check.

[co-joe]

I've had a couple 2's that I really would have loved to challenge, I may have a 2 (or two) that could have been a 1 though, but you just never know how the ACP sees it. If you passed, take it as a learning experience. If you never had to work at any exercises are you really learning? When it comes time for the command course, they just want to see that you learn from your mistakes and better yourself. Unless you're at Cathay, then they might bring up a 2 from 20 years ago and fail your entire command course even though you passed everything.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Just wondering how relevant is a “2” (major error) on an initial or recurrent PPC (705 ops) in terms of future captain upgrade or applying to other airlines in Canada and overseas. Just had my first “2” on a recurrent PPC even though I prepared for it as best as I could. It was a stupid mistake that got me a 2 and I own to it.

Thanks!

You’re good. It’s a pass. Don’t fight it, it opens up your entire file to the public thru the tribunal.

Chalk it up to a nice debrief, explain yourself and why you made errors or choices. Go home, pour a Whiskey and smile that you made it 6 more months.

Generally when applying to new airlines : they only ask if you’ve ever “failed” a ppc. Which you haven’t and even if you have.., it’s not a problem. Actually, I think they like someone that is honest about the situation and give them the story.


Your upgrade will come. Especially in this world.

[Oleo 4]

We are creatures of habit and I believe you've already learned more about the singular mark than you would have if you had received a 3 or 4. Don't give it a second thought when it comes to upgrades. When time comes for your upgrade I'm sure you can request your Pilot Training Record and look for consistent patterns of irregularities/signs or areas of concern. I still keep a book used for every simulator/training event that I make notes in for my own use to ensure I correct any bad habits or understand the "why" behind the human factors or Swiss cheese model that lead to my earned mark.

Difference of being a professional pilot vs pilot.

O

[Speedbrakes]

A single 2 on a PPC is irrelevant when it comes to an upgrade. I'm a training captain at my airline and on my second-to-last PPC I got a 2 on my V1 cut. I've been flying for 20 years and I think it's the first time I've ever gotten a 2 on a V1 cut. I was annoyed because I don't like getting twos but it's certainly not something I lost the slightest bit of sleep over.

As far as applying to other airlines they will not have access to your flight test reports. At most they will ask you if you've ever failed a PPC to which you will be able to respond "no".

You're good to go. Don't give it a second though.

[CaptDukeNukem]

A single 2 on a PPC is irrelevant when it comes to an upgrade. I'm a training captain at my airline and on my second-to-last PPC I got a 2 on my V1 cut. I've been flying for 20 years and I think it's the first time I've ever gotten a 2 on a V1 cut. I was annoyed because I don't like getting twos but it's certainly not something I lost the slightest bit of sleep over.

As far as applying to other airlines they will not have access to your flight test reports. At most they will ask you if you've ever failed a PPC to which you will be able to respond "no".

You're good to go. Don't give it a second though.

Some airlines…. Air Canada mostly, can request you to print off your TC file that would show your training records because PPCs aren’t a company document, they are a transport Canada document. In that sense, they could have the information, but you’d have to provide them with it. Again, a single 2 means nothing

[nohojob]

When I get a 2, I drink a cup of tea.