67% yes

[JHR]

Hold the line What a joke!

[walkabout]

The number of times Captains cheap out on tips for the shuttle/taxi drivers is crazy, no excuse before and definitely they have no excuse now with new TA, I'll be sure to tear a strip off them if they do. A drink covered once and a while would be nice too lol.

[newlygrounded]

Well, the trip down the gutter for Canadian aviation continues...

Maybe respect the will of 2/3 of your colleagues.

Congrats to the AC pilots.

I understand your sentiment and would usually agree but:

The union promised the world and came up short. Did people vote because they thought it lived up to what they wanted OR did the labor minister in the room during negotiations and union stewards mentioning arbitration is a realistic outcome of a no vote sway people into voting for the best they thought they could get?

[thepoors]

Well, the trip down the gutter for Canadian aviation continues...

Maybe respect the will of 2/3 of your colleagues.

Congrats to the AC pilots.

I understand your sentiment and would usually agree but:

The union promised the world and came up short. Did people vote because they thought it lived up to what they wanted OR did the labor minister in the room during negotiations and union stewards mentioning arbitration is a realistic outcome of a no vote sway people into voting for the best they thought they could get?

Not to mention the cowardly MEC chair saying "if you don't vote this in, I'll quit and leave you in the lurch."
Disgusting, embarrassing behavior.

[bcflyer]

The number of times Captains cheap out on tips for the shuttle/taxi drivers is crazy, no excuse before and definitely they have no excuse now with new TA, I'll be sure to tear a strip off them if they do. A drink covered once and a while would be nice too lol.

Actually they have a valid excuse to not tip now. We lost our gratuity allowance.

[newlygrounded]

Air Canada was my one hope that things can be better in this country. The low (starting pay) and (high) cost of living in YYZ, YVR, YUL just makes this unbearable.

Q: How will someone like me with a mortgage and a family be able to make this work? When is the reward no longer worth the effort? At what point does one say "The work/life balance" is not adequate for somone in my possition? How do I raise a family in the GTA? When will this "short term pain for long term gain" end?

A: It doesn't matter. There are plenty of young pilots that don't have those problems. There are plenty of them that live with mom and dad in YYZ and AC will NEVER be short on pilots. Like my dad put it "You missed the train, my son... Now you have to walk"

They (AC) knew that... and played their cards right.

I for one am at a loss of words...

This is so true. The company pulled out so much BS to, yeah you can be a captain in 4 years if you want to work 20+ days a month with zero Christmas, holidays or new years off for a decade.

My opinion has always been 90% of pilots cannot see themselves doing another job, and like like the film industry they're going to be exploited forever

Didn't 600 junior pilots get years of service? I would think that is meaningful and not something an arbitrator would really consider in a contract.

Anyways there is such thing as just a Canadian pilot. It's not that you are a pilot, it is in fact that you are Canadian. Canadians are different. Canadians love socialism, they love taxes. If we paid 10 percent more carbon tax we could have prevented hurricane Milton right?

The trend we are on has nothing to do with being pilots and everything to do with our country as a whole and our government. I'm sorry to say but Canadians have little interest in being more like America. Or they want to cherry pick the good things but ignore the bad. It's a package deal you get here.

Think of Jordan Petersons take on the several reasons women may be paid less in the workplace. The generalizations, such as being less competitive, more compassionate etc.

Canadains are more like women, Americans are more like Men when it comes to our political landscape. If you want to be paid like an American, take the package as whole and embrace what it means to be American.

I don't think this is a totally fair take. Look how the US regionals and Majors were in the 90s? Bankruptcy's left and right. At least there was stability here. Then covid came around and the company didn't even take CEWS. I think the balance is different now and we are objectively far behind.

[Bede]

People are inherently selfish. This contract catered to 67% of the pilot group. People didn’t vote yes because they were afraid. They voted yes because it best suited them.

Happens all the time.

Apparently you weren’t paying attention. The threats of “what if” swayed the vote of a large group of pilots. It was clearly a fear vote.
Don’t worry. We’ll get em next time.

Thats called a risk analysis. Sometimes taking the sure thing outweighs the risk.

In 1998 pilots went on strike and camenout with 2 extra shirts and a shoe allowance. In 2014, AC pilots lost $50M in arbitration.

Sometimes when you roll the dice you win (WJ AME), sometime you lose.

[rudder]

The union who lied for over a year and sold out it's membership for these meager "gains?" And then fear mongered about arbitration to persuade a yes vote? Yeah, that one.

I make no apologies for supporting our union. My union speaks for me. They speak for me when I agree with them, and they speak for me when I don't. Welcome to trade unionism.

41% is not a meagre gain.

The obvious reason that any WJ pilot would be a cheerleader for this agreement is the ability to use the (top scale) pay rates and pension contribution rates for benchmarking purposes when their own CBA opens.

WJ pilots already have QOL. You won’t see them asking for AC work rules or scheduling rules.

[Mr. North]

Actually they have a valid excuse to not tip now. We lost our gratuity allowance.

You didn't lose it, that amount was rolled into the new TAFB per diem system. Which overall is a 30% increase over the old system (tax fee).

[bcflyer]

Actually they have a valid excuse to not tip now. We lost our gratuity allowance.

You didn't lose it, that amount was rolled into the new TAFB per diem system. Which overall is a 30% increase over the old system (tax fee).

“Rolled into” is another way of saying “used to finance the new increase” It’s not a 30% raise when you give up some else to get it.

[Mr. North]

The obvious reason that any WJ pilot would be a cheerleader for this agreement is the ability to use the (top scale) pay rates and pension contribution rates for benchmarking purposes when their own CBA opens.

WJ pilots already have QOL. You won’t see them asking for AC work rules or scheduling rules.

Duh, that's how pattern bargaining works, building on the strengths of each others collective agreements. WJ will fight to close their pay gap and we'll draw from their better QOL.

[Mr. North]

Actually they have a valid excuse to not tip now. We lost our gratuity allowance.

You didn't lose it, that amount was rolled into the new TAFB per diem system. Which overall is a 30% increase over the old system (tax fee).

“Rolled into” is another way of saying “used to finance the new increase” It’s not a 30% raise when you give up some else to get it.

Spoken like someone who's never talked to anyone on the negots committee.

[newlygrounded]

The obvious reason that any WJ pilot would be a cheerleader for this agreement is the ability to use the (top scale) pay rates and pension contribution rates for benchmarking purposes when their own CBA opens.

WJ pilots already have QOL. You won’t see them asking for AC work rules or scheduling rules.

Duh, that's how pattern bargaining works, building on the strengths of each others collective agreements. WJ will fight to close their pay gap and we'll draw from their better QOL.

WS doesn't have dozens of shiny WB planes to tempt their FO's to IG worthy destinations

[BrassCraft]

Pussy’s. 67% need to be taught a lesson.

[Pilotguy007]

I hope when wj goes into negotiations next year they say we are not aircanada pilots. We deserve more .

[Bede]

Pussy’s. 67% need to be taught a lesson.

Maybe they should deny you the JS.

[furloughedAC]

People are inherently selfish. This contract catered to 67% of the pilot group. People didn’t vote yes because they were afraid. They voted yes because it best suited them.

Happens all the time.

Not necessarily. I benefit a ton from this TA going through. YOS gained back. Still voted no simply because I was willing to gamble that we could do better. I think there's a multitude of reasons why two thirds voted yes.

[Bede]

The obvious reason that any WJ pilot would be a cheerleader for this agreement is the ability to use the (top scale) pay rates and pension contribution rates for benchmarking purposes when their own CBA opens.

WJ pilots already have QOL. You won’t see them asking for AC work rules or scheduling rules.

You raise a valid point, but I wouldn't call myself cheerleadering the agreement. TBH, I don't really like it, but not for the reasons that most of the posters on here are against it.

I will freely admit though I will cheerleader the union leadership at AC. If they say it's the best they can do, I would believe them. I

[freighter27]

Actually they have a valid excuse to not tip now. We lost our gratuity allowance.

You didn't lose it, that amount was rolled into the new TAFB per diem system. Which overall is a 30% increase over the old system (tax fee).

“Rolled into” is another way of saying “used to finance the new increase” It’s not a 30% raise when you give up some else to get it.

One of the most idiotic comments ever, taken in isolation...
A huge proportion of pairings will reportedly get much higher expense allowances by using TAFB.
Can I follow the "logic" here? According to the complaints; even though the total expense reimbursement is higher, there is no longer a gratuity amount included, so I am not going to pay the driver a tip. By the same reasoning, there is no longer a breakfast, lunch, dinner or snack amount included,, do I now not get to eat? What do I do with all this expense money? If no one tells me what it is for, how on earth will I know how to spend it????

[paytoplay]

FYI, Porter has a TAFB set up for per diem and also has a tipping credit paid separately for this very issue.

[777CA]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA EM-BAR-RA-SSING

[freighter27]

FYI, Porter has a TAFB set up for per diem and also has a tipping credit paid separately for this very issue.

Do they need to be reminded to eat?

[thepoors]

You raise a valid point, but I wouldn't call myself cheerleadering the agreement. TBH, I don't really like it, but not for the reasons that most of the posters on here are against it.

I will freely admit though I will cheerleader the union leadership at AC. If they say it's the best they can do, I would believe them. I

Like I said - shill.

I don't understand how you can defend this MEC/LEC in the vote for this TA and their actions since they presented it. It was a concerted effort to influence the membership into voting this in with what boils down to blackmail. These are not the actions of a union with their membership's interests at heart. They lied to our faces and squandered a position with the greatest leverage we ever had (or likely will have) to force a deal that benefits the company over its pilots.

[8895]

FYI, Porter has a TAFB set up for per diem and also has a tipping credit paid separately for this very issue.

Do they need to be reminded to eat?

I’m an E2 FO making more than my friends flying WB at AC. Not only do I not need to be reminded to eat, but unlike my friends I can actually afford rent!

[cdnavater]

You raise a valid point, but I wouldn't call myself cheerleadering the agreement. TBH, I don't really like it, but not for the reasons that most of the posters on here are against it.

I will freely admit though I will cheerleader the union leadership at AC. If they say it's the best they can do, I would believe them. I

Like I said - shill.

I don't understand how you can defend this MEC/LEC in the vote for this TA and their actions since they presented it. It was a concerted effort to influence the membership into voting this in with what boils down to blackmail. These are not the actions of a union with their membership's interests at heart. They lied to our faces and squandered a position with the greatest leverage we ever had (or likely will have) to force a deal that benefits the company over its pilots.

Ok, thepoors, it’s time for you to put up or stfu, you have a couple years to get involved in the union and make a difference, show them how it’s done!