Has anyone had success with PICUS?

[avengingjeremy]

I'm wondering if there are any success stories with PICUS programs. I've read a lot of people cannot complete the process within the timeframe allowed.

I was wondering if anyone has been able to complete it, where they started hours-wise in the program, and which company they completed it with.
I recently wrote the A's and am looking to rent a plane to get to the 150-hour mark needed to start PICUS but I was wondering if it's even worth it?

[‘Bob’]

Back in my day you flew a single engine plane for hire until you had the requisite hours for PIC for your ATPL. Do it as an instructor and you get all your night PIC as well. Then you moved on to an aircraft that required an ATPL to command it.

We were warned about the Cinderella stories of the lucky guy who got a turbine FO job right out of school. Because when midnight strikes, he had to rent a Cessna 150 on his own dime to get the hours for the AAs and upgrade.

[goingnowherefast]

I flew Navajos at a 703 to get my night PIC. Lots of King Air, Caravan and PC12 PIC jobs don't need an ATPL either.

[Flygirl42]

Okay… everyone responding.. literally not the question he asked. But Anyways, multiple pilots I work with have got their ATPL though picus. I work at air north and we fly 800+ hours a year and it’s dark all winter in the Yukon so it’s pretty easy.

[cdnavater]

I'm wondering if there are any success stories with PICUS programs. I've read a lot of people cannot complete the process within the timeframe allowed.

I was wondering if anyone has been able to complete it, where they started hours-wise in the program, and which company they completed it with.
I recently wrote the A's and am looking to rent a plane to get to the 150-hour mark needed to start PICUS but I was wondering if it's even worth it?

I wouldn’t come to Jazz hoping for PICUS, I know of more than a couple who tried to get some and just not able so they ended up renting.
There are too many needing it and not enough Captains to fly with for it!

[safetyfirst123]

Right now there's an exemption to the one year limitation for accumulating PICUS, but it expires next year.

Issued: 2020-11-24

Expiry: 2025-11-30

Region: HQ

Routing: AARTJ

CARS provision(s): 401.11

Applicant provision(s): GLOBAL

Aircraft model: n/a

Registration no.: n/a

NCR-124-2020 This exemption will extend the validity period of the Pilot-in-command-Under-Supervision (PICUS) experience that was recorded between March 12, 2019 and the expiry of this exemption, while a Notice of Proposed Amendment (NPA) is drafted and presented for processing to permanently amend the provision to eliminate the 12 month restriction imposed by 421.11(5)(b). This exemption will allow temporary measures in the public interest to reduce the regulatory demand on applicants for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence by retaining the validity of PICUS experience on record. It will also ease the unnecessary risk of exposing healthy applicants to potentially hazardous settings in Canada, following the declaration of a pandemic outbreak of COVID-19 by the World Health Organization on March 11, 2020.

[‘Bob’]

Okay… everyone responding.. literally not the question he asked. But Anyways, multiple pilots I work with have got their ATPL though picus. I work at air north and we fly 800+ hours a year and it’s dark all winter in the Yukon so it’s pretty easy.

Thanks for mansplaining it to us.

OP asked if anyone had PICUS success stories. In most of the industry the answer is no other than for small top ups to existing time. Especially given how many threads pop up of FOs in dead end positions having to rent a Cessna to get their As.

Just give your experience and move on, thanks.

[cdnavater]

Okay… everyone responding.. literally not the question he asked. But Anyways, multiple pilots I work with have got their ATPL though picus. I work at air north and we fly 800+ hours a year and it’s dark all winter in the Yukon so it’s pretty easy.

Considering the OP wanted to know about success stories, it’s logical to conclude they would like to hear about the other side of it, perhaps where not to go for this.
Clearly it sounds like Air North has a successful program, where as I said Jazz does not have a successful program, mostly due to the unavailability of Captains providing PICUS.
The programs not working tell a story and maybe the OP can speak for themselves about whether or not they find value to the negative stories!

[CaptDukeNukem]

Porter has a PICUS program as well. I’ve never heard about it utilized on the E2. Possibly on the dash. I think it’s one of those things that get included in a ops manual but never gets done. It needs approval from managers to get on the PICUS program, and frankly I don’t see much value in it. It’s fake PIC, yes you are the one “making decisions” but really you’re not. How much experience can you actually get from that. The whole thing with PIC, is that you were the one at the bottom line. PICUS is a cucked version of it.

The requirements for the ATPL haven’t changed, it’s kinda on you to get it done

[Adam Oke]

I needed roughly 6 hours of night PIC XC after a few thousand hours of PIC from a decade of crop dusting and water bombing. My experience was about 98% day VFR in piston bangers and turbines. A few decisions were made over all those years...

I finished off my AAs with PICUS at Porter many years ago. I don't think the intent of the program is to build all of your PIC time via PICUS due to the restrictions put in place. It must be conducted in 1 year and is valued at 50%, which makes it very challenging to achieve If you're after the max allowable.

If you're on the cusp, it's a nice convenient formality to get the AAs signed off. The night PICUS XC in a 2 crew, IFR 705 aircraft navigating around weather while muddling around with the radar is a lot more relevant than knocking some VFR cross country flights in the light of the moon on a beautiful high pressure night in a 150. I see the value in it.

Was flying as a CA promptly after my "fake PIC" was inked.

[newlygrounded]

Back in my day you flew a single engine plane for hire until you had the requisite hours for PIC for your ATPL. Do it as an instructor and you get all your night PIC as well. Then you moved on to an aircraft that required an ATPL to command it.

We were warned about the Cinderella stories of the lucky guy who got a turbine FO job right out of school. Because when midnight strikes, he had to rent a Cessna 150 on his own dime to get the hours for the AAs and upgrade.

seems like a small price to pay to avoid the horrors of instructing

[Me262]

Back in my day you flew a single engine plane for hire until you had the requisite hours for PIC for your ATPL. Do it as an instructor and you get all your night PIC as well. Then you moved on to an aircraft that required an ATPL to command it.

We were warned about the Cinderella stories of the lucky guy who got a turbine FO job right out of school. Because when midnight strikes, he had to rent a Cessna 150 on his own dime to get the hours for the AAs and upgrade.

Those turbine FO jobs right out of school pay a lot better than below poverty wage flight instructor is paying. With the profits you can easily go rent out a 150 and do 25NM "circuits" just to satisfy TC's stupid rules. Because those C150s hours are undoubtedly a true asset for someone with 1000hrs+ right seat CRJ or E2 upgrading on the same metal.

I needed roughly 6 hours of night PIC XC after a few thousand hours of PIC from a decade of crop dusting and water bombing. My experience was about 98% day VFR in piston bangers and turbines. A few decisions were made over all those years...

I finished off my AAs with PICUS at Porter many years ago. I don't think the intent of the program is to build all of your PIC time via PICUS due to the restrictions put in place. It must be conducted in 1 year and is valued at 50%, which makes it very challenging to achieve If you're after the max allowable.

If you're on the cusp, it's a nice convenient formality to get the AAs signed off. The night PICUS XC in a 2 crew, IFR 705 aircraft navigating around weather while muddling around with the radar is a lot more relevant than knocking some VFR cross country flights in the light of the moon on a beautiful high pressure night in a 150. I see the value in it.

Was flying as a CA promptly after my "fake PIC" was inked.

The "fake PIC" valued at 50% is worth 10000% more than "true PIC" bombing in an irrelevant 150 25NM from the airport.

[cdnavater]

I needed roughly 6 hours of night PIC XC after a few thousand hours of PIC from a decade of crop dusting and water bombing. My experience was about 98% day VFR in piston bangers and turbines. A few decisions were made over all those years...

I finished off my AAs with PICUS at Porter many years ago. I don't think the intent of the program is to build all of your PIC time via PICUS due to the restrictions put in place. It must be conducted in 1 year and is valued at 50%, which makes it very challenging to achieve If you're after the max allowable.

If you're on the cusp, it's a nice convenient formality to get the AAs signed off. The night PICUS XC in a 2 crew, IFR 705 aircraft navigating around weather while muddling around with the radar is a lot more relevant than knocking some VFR cross country flights in the light of the moon on a beautiful high pressure night in a 150. I see the value in it.

Was flying as a CA promptly after my "fake PIC" was inked.

Your situation is exactly where it makes sense, unfortunately what is actually going on is pilots like me262 who think TC rules are”stupid” are getting PICUS after coming to the airline with a wet ink CPL and even then they still thinks it’s bullshit they need the PICUS program.
FO time always, at least since I started flying, counted for half of the total time required for the ATPL, ie; if I only had FO time I would need around 3000 hours to get the ATPL.
Now, other than the PIC requirements, you only need 1500 hours TT, how much easier do they need to make it, it’s pathetic and other than buying your licence in India, quite likely the easiest ATPL on the planet

[KN84]

I needed roughly 6 hours of night PIC XC after a few thousand hours of PIC from a decade of crop dusting and water bombing. My experience was about 98% day VFR in piston bangers and turbines. A few decisions were made over all those years...

I finished off my AAs with PICUS at Porter many years ago. I don't think the intent of the program is to build all of your PIC time via PICUS due to the restrictions put in place. It must be conducted in 1 year and is valued at 50%, which makes it very challenging to achieve If you're after the max allowable.

If you're on the cusp, it's a nice convenient formality to get the AAs signed off. The night PICUS XC in a 2 crew, IFR 705 aircraft navigating around weather while muddling around with the radar is a lot more relevant than knocking some VFR cross country flights in the light of the moon on a beautiful high pressure night in a 150. I see the value in it.

Was flying as a CA promptly after my "fake PIC" was inked.

Your situation is exactly where it makes sense, unfortunately what is actually going on is pilots like me262 who think TC rules are”stupid” are getting PICUS after coming to the airline with a wet ink CPL and even then they still thinks it’s bullshit they need the PICUS program.
FO time always, at least since I started flying, counted for half of the total time required for the ATPL, ie; if I only had FO time I would need around 3000 hours to get the ATPL.
Now, other than the PIC requirements, you only need 1500 hours TT, how much easier do they need to make it, it’s pathetic and other than buying your licence in India, quite likely the easiest ATPL on the planet

If airlines would hire experienced applicants with experience outside the circuit there wouldn’t need to be any such thing as PICUS.

[Pratt X 3]

If airlines would hire experienced applicants with experience outside the circuit there wouldn’t need to be any such thing as PICUS.

[cdnavater]

I needed roughly 6 hours of night PIC XC after a few thousand hours of PIC from a decade of crop dusting and water bombing. My experience was about 98% day VFR in piston bangers and turbines. A few decisions were made over all those years...

I finished off my AAs with PICUS at Porter many years ago. I don't think the intent of the program is to build all of your PIC time via PICUS due to the restrictions put in place. It must be conducted in 1 year and is valued at 50%, which makes it very challenging to achieve If you're after the max allowable.

If you're on the cusp, it's a nice convenient formality to get the AAs signed off. The night PICUS XC in a 2 crew, IFR 705 aircraft navigating around weather while muddling around with the radar is a lot more relevant than knocking some VFR cross country flights in the light of the moon on a beautiful high pressure night in a 150. I see the value in it.

Was flying as a CA promptly after my "fake PIC" was inked.

Your situation is exactly where it makes sense, unfortunately what is actually going on is pilots like me262 who think TC rules are”stupid” are getting PICUS after coming to the airline with a wet ink CPL and even then they still thinks it’s bullshit they need the PICUS program.
FO time always, at least since I started flying, counted for half of the total time required for the ATPL, ie; if I only had FO time I would need around 3000 hours to get the ATPL.
Now, other than the PIC requirements, you only need 1500 hours TT, how much easier do they need to make it, it’s pathetic and other than buying your licence in India, quite likely the easiest ATPL on the planet

If airlines would hire experienced applicants with experience outside the circuit there wouldn’t need to be any such thing as PICUS.

Have you applied?

[KN84]

Your situation is exactly where it makes sense, unfortunately what is actually going on is pilots like me262 who think TC rules are”stupid” are getting PICUS after coming to the airline with a wet ink CPL and even then they still thinks it’s bullshit they need the PICUS program.
FO time always, at least since I started flying, counted for half of the total time required for the ATPL, ie; if I only had FO time I would need around 3000 hours to get the ATPL.
Now, other than the PIC requirements, you only need 1500 hours TT, how much easier do they need to make it, it’s pathetic and other than buying your licence in India, quite likely the easiest ATPL on the planet

If airlines would hire experienced applicants with experience outside the circuit there wouldn’t need to be any such thing as PICUS.

Have you applied?

No, I haven’t. If experienced king air training captains aren’t being hired, me being a newish king air captain wouldn’t have a chance. I’m currently looking into getting an instructor rating in order to gain experience to advance career. You’ve mentioned Jazz has hired lots of instructors in past few years.

[cdnavater]

If airlines would hire experienced applicants with experience outside the circuit there wouldn’t need to be any such thing as PICUS.

Have you applied?

No, I haven’t. If experienced king air training captains aren’t being hired, me being a newish king air captain wouldn’t have a chance. I’m currently looking into getting an instructor rating in order to gain experience to advance career. You’ve mentioned Jazz has hired lots of instructors in past few years.

You are a HUGE troll!
If you don’t realize that because your “colleague” wasn’t hired has zero bearing on your chances, you might actually lack the brain bandwidth to further continue as a professional pilot, you should probably just quit and do something else!
Surely you must know someone who knows someone that knows of this unicorn pilot who only has King Air training pilot experience and was hired by a 705!
I know of several who I have personally trained in the last few years, even last month there was a 1900 training pilot going through initial training, he will be a Captain by next spring, guaranteed, unless of course he chooses not to bid it.

[‘Bob’]

If airlines would hire experienced applicants with experience outside the circuit there wouldn’t need to be any such thing as PICUS.

Do you have a criminal record?

[KN84]

If airlines would hire experienced applicants with experience outside the circuit there wouldn’t need to be any such thing as PICUS.

Do you have a criminal record?

No

[goingnowherefast]

The best PIC time is actual 703 command time. Ripping around the north in a Pilatus, Navajo or Caravan. That's the best way to make decisions and learn from them. It's also the way our licensing experience metric is designed.

PICUS is the next best. TC trusts a CPL enough with a Pilatus, but to be a "captain" on a transport category airplane they need supervision. Thus PICUS, and since it's supervised, it has a bunch of conditions.

172 PIC time is for learning how to fly, or taking friends for a scenic tour. It does still count towards an ATPL, but I'm not sure why.

[KN84]

The best PIC time is actual 703 command time. Ripping around the north in a Pilatus, Navajo or Caravan. That's the best way to make decisions and learn from them. It's also the way our licensing experience metric is designed.

PICUS is the next best. TC trusts a CPL enough with a Pilatus, but to be a "captain" on a transport category airplane they need supervision. Thus PICUS, and since it's supervised, it has a bunch of conditions.

172 PIC time is for learning how to fly, or taking friends for a scenic tour. It does still count towards an ATPL, but I'm not sure why.

You’re speaking logically however hiring committees at 705 operators like Jazz and Porter views 703 command time as a hindrance for success at 705. They’ve been hiring 172 instructors over experienced 703 Captains.

[‘Bob’]

.
172 PIC time is for learning how to fly, or taking friends for a scenic tour. It does still count towards an ATPL, but I'm not sure why.

You probably wouldn’t believe how many ATPs I’ve flown with who forgot to take out the chocks, forgot to order fuel, forgot to check NOTAMs or even check the weather.

You know.. basic Cessna 172 shit.

[goldeneagle]

FO time always, at least since I started flying, counted for half of the total time required for the ATPL, ie; if I only had FO time I would need around 3000 hours to get the ATPL.

When I got mine, half of the 1500 had to be PIC, and SIC time only counted half, so, if getting the license based on SIC time you required 750 PIC and 1500 SIC. I didn't know anybody from my cadre that was stuck on the PIC time for the license, but a few were shy on night time after spending some years on floats. Most of them ultimately took a job doing bag runs to get the night and ifr requirements. But even those jobs were significantly different back then, most were in the navajo, and there was nobody sitting in the right seat.

I did know one person that was a few years older than me, went to AC strait out of selkirk (or it may have been the other college), then after a number of years right seat in the diesel 9, took an LOA to go fly floats for a season, get the required PIC so he could upgrade. At that time he needed 400 or so PIC in order to upgrade.

[cdnavater]

FO time always, at least since I started flying, counted for half of the total time required for the ATPL, ie; if I only had FO time I would need around 3000 hours to get the ATPL.

When I got mine, half of the 1500 had to be PIC, and SIC time only counted half, so, if getting the license based on SIC time you required 750 PIC and 1500 SIC. I didn't know anybody from my cadre that was stuck on the PIC time for the license, but a few were shy on night time after spending some years on floats. Most of them ultimately took a job doing bag runs to get the night and ifr requirements. But even those jobs were significantly different back then, most were in the navajo, and there was nobody sitting in the right seat.

I did know one person that was a few years older than me, went to AC strait out of selkirk (or it may have been the other college), then after a number of years right seat in the diesel 9, took an LOA to go fly floats for a season, get the required PIC so he could upgrade. At that time he needed 400 or so PIC in order to upgrade.

Yah, that sounds familiar, I had 1700 hours when it was signed off because I had 400 right seat, the rest was PIC.
I do see the benefit of PICUS if you had to gain double the TT, but at 1500 hours and a couple hundred “PIC”, you should not be in command of a 705 category aircraft but I will concede that PICUS is probably better than renting a C150.
My biggest problem is that they removed the FO time counting as half, seems like some airline lobbying effort paid off!