Porter YYC Base

[Sponge]

Is Porter thinking of creating a YYC pilot base?

[lowoleo22]

Not on the radar. YVR is next, along with possible mention of a YEG. No YYC has ever been stated or confirmed on any pilot call.

[wcpilot]

Not on the radar. YVR is next, along with possible mention of a YEG. No YYC has ever been stated or confirmed on any pilot call.

YVR is already open.

[Me262]

Not on the radar. YVR is next, along with possible mention of a YEG. No YYC has ever been stated or confirmed on any pilot call.

YVR is already open.

Question is if they will hire directly into YVR, since DukeNukem is always dissing Jazz's/AC's ad posts with "I would never go to a company you don't know the base". Currently for anyone not wanting YYZ, Porter's hiring only in YYZ and flowing from there is worse than Jazz/AC approach.

[propstojets]

Not on the radar. YVR is next, along with possible mention of a YEG. No YYC has ever been stated or confirmed on any pilot call.

YVR is already open.

Question is if they will hire directly into YVR, since DukeNukem is always dissing Jazz's/AC's ad posts with "I would never go to a company you don't know the base". Currently for anyone not wanting YYZ, Porter's hiring only in YYZ and flowing from there is worse than Jazz/AC approach.

I guess, though technically, AC is only hiring for YYZ lately, and you gotta bid for your base and pray that there is an opening.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Not on the radar. YVR is next, along with possible mention of a YEG. No YYC has ever been stated or confirmed on any pilot call.

YVR is already open.

Question is if they will hire directly into YVR, since DukeNukem is always dissing Jazz's/AC's ad posts with "I would never go to a company you don't know the base". Currently for anyone not wanting YYZ, Porter's hiring only in YYZ and flowing from there is worse than Jazz/AC approach.

At the moment there are enough base transfers to not have hiring at YVR. And yes I diss jazz career ads. Porter’s ads state where you will be applying directly in the subject line. Unlike jazz. I will always say it’s crazy to accept a position that you don’t know where you’ll be or what you’ll fly.

[Speedbrakes]

I will always say it’s crazy to accept a position that you don’t know where you’ll be or what you’ll fly.

Agreed. Not knowing the equipment you'll be on I can deal with. But not knowing your base is a deal breaker for me.

With regards to OP's question, there has been no mention of a Western base outside of Vancouver which is already open. Personally I would love to see a Calgary or Edmonton base as I think it would make us a much more attractive option to a lot of pilots.

[rudder]

I will always say it’s crazy to accept a position that you don’t know where you’ll be or what you’ll fly.

Agreed. Not knowing the equipment you'll be on I can deal with. But not knowing your base is a deal breaker for me.

With regards to OP's question, there has been no mention of a Western base outside of Vancouver which is already open. Personally I would love to see a Calgary or Edmonton base as I think it would make us a much more attractive option to a lot of pilots.

Why would Porter want to venture in to WJ back yard? You think that is going to end well?

[Sponge]

...that's why I am asking. I think a Porter YYC base would be the literal end of Encore.

As for Porter being in WJ's backyard....Porter is already in the backyard of WJ and AC...and they seem to be doing just fine...

[CaptDukeNukem]

I will always say it’s crazy to accept a position that you don’t know where you’ll be or what you’ll fly.

Agreed. Not knowing the equipment you'll be on I can deal with. But not knowing your base is a deal breaker for me.

With regards to OP's question, there has been no mention of a Western base outside of Vancouver which is already open. Personally I would love to see a Calgary or Edmonton base as I think it would make us a much more attractive option to a lot of pilots.

Why would Porter want to venture in to WJ back yard? You think that is going to end well?

I think it would go great. Maybe fire up some YVR-YYC routes from the YVR base to test the waters. Porter has always considered themselves to be a disrupter in the industry. And seeing its latest customer complaints scores per 100 flights shows me they can probably find a place in the wolf’s lair.

https://www.blogto.com/travel/2024/10/o ... ts-canada/

[Canadaflyer46]

As a WJ pilot I would love to see a bigger Porter presence in YYC. Our product is nothing short of a disgrace lately, some competition would be healthy. Here’s hoping the rumours are true.

[fish4life]

Porter has a good product but if they try to attack every carrier on all fronts it’s not a recipe for success. To go into an incumbents back yard takes serious financial backing. Going into 2 incumbents back yards at the same time would be suicide as you won’t have the market share to charge enough to make any yield in either location.

[flyinhigh]

At the moment there are enough base transfers to not have hiring at YVR. And yes I diss jazz career ads. Porter’s ads state where you will be applying directly in the subject line. Unlike jazz. I will always say it’s crazy to accept a position that you don’t know where you’ll be or what you’ll fly.

The YVR base is quite large for the amount of flying so I wouldn't count on and expansion to the base anytime soon. YYC won't happen anytime soon as there is not enough flying, whereas YEG could work as there is tons of flying there.

On a separate note, the way Porter does the bases and flying is a great way to circumvent seniority (I.e, YUL base. No internal bids even though there was tons of pilots from YUL, all direct hires in). Complete BS.

[Grey_Wolf]

On a separate note, the way Porter does the bases and flying is a great way to circumvent seniority (I.e, YUL base. No internal bids even though there was tons of pilots from YUL, all direct hires in). Complete BS.

Agreed! There were internal bids in the spring of 2023 that were not honored. Email that was sent out internally, was any one interested could apply. Once the bid closed; the internal candidates were told that they weren't qualified to take the transfer; as they had no jet experience. Anecdotally, one of the internal candidate had over 10K hours, with 5k on the Dash, and about 3.5k Multi-PIC.

Instead they brought in DEC's with previous type experience. The DFO at the time was approached and asked why. The reason was that Porter needed Captains that could help build the training department so as to be able to expand and avoid the green-on-green type of scenario. They also noted that 'cannibalizing' the Dash Fleet was counterproductive (as the Dash Ops was making money, while the Jet ops was taking capital in the start up phase).

That said, the majority of those who were interested in moving bases, have done so; as far as I know. The expansion of bases (YOW, YUL, YVR) has been steadily increasing. Once again anecdotally, some bases have been able to be filled rather quickly while others have not. The most recent being 5 spots for CA and 5 spots for FO being advertised in YOW, with the result of 1 CA and 3 FO actually filling it.

YYC/YEG have been informally talked about amongst the pilot group in a speculative manner, at best. I'd love to see our western commuters not have to commute. I suspect once we have enough planes, pilots, and presence (routes); Porter may opt to open other bases. (I'd love for our eastern commuters to see a jet base at YHZ!)

[CaptDukeNukem]

On a separate note, the way Porter does the bases and flying is a great way to circumvent seniority (I.e, YUL base. No internal bids even though there was tons of pilots from YUL, all direct hires in). Complete BS.

Agreed! There were internal bids in the spring of 2023 that were not honored. Email that was sent out internally, was any one interested could apply. Once the bid closed; the internal candidates were told that they weren't qualified to take the transfer; as they had no jet experience. Anecdotally, one of the internal candidate had over 10K hours, with 5k on the Dash, and about 3.5k Multi-PIC.

Instead they brought in DEC's with previous type experience. The DFO at the time was approached and asked why. The reason was that Porter needed Captains that could help build the training department so as to be able to expand and avoid the green-on-green type of scenario. They also noted that 'cannibalizing' the Dash Fleet was counterproductive (as the Dash Ops was making money, while the Jet ops was taking capital in the start up phase).

That said, the majority of those who were interested in moving bases, have done so; as far as I know. The expansion of bases (YOW, YUL, YVR) has been steadily increasing. Once again anecdotally, some bases have been able to be filled rather quickly while others have not. The most recent being 5 spots for CA and 5 spots for FO being advertised in YOW, with the result of 1 CA and 3 FO actually filling it.

YYC/YEG have been informally talked about amongst the pilot group in a speculative manner, at best. I'd love to see our western commuters not have to commute. I suspect once we have enough planes, pilots, and presence (routes); Porter may opt to open other bases. (I'd love for our eastern commuters to see a jet base at YHZ!)

This is definitely a sad event in Porter’s history. However, do you think someone with 16 years of dash-8 flying is able to pick up a slippery jet at FL390 and make it work like yesterday?

Jet experience was needed to make the training work, and those senior captains that wanted to come over have all been moved over. Yes it took time, but it was done in a way that had to be.

Internal FO to CA are happening, no more DEC. Also, with DTIP, those who get deferred are making E2 bucks.

It was a struggle, for sure.

[cjp]

On a separate note, the way Porter does the bases and flying is a great way to circumvent seniority (I.e, YUL base. No internal bids even though there was tons of pilots from YUL, all direct hires in). Complete BS.

Agreed! There were internal bids in the spring of 2023 that were not honored. Email that was sent out internally, was any one interested could apply. Once the bid closed; the internal candidates were told that they weren't qualified to take the transfer; as they had no jet experience. Anecdotally, one of the internal candidate had over 10K hours, with 5k on the Dash, and about 3.5k Multi-PIC.

Instead they brought in DEC's with previous type experience. The DFO at the time was approached and asked why. The reason was that Porter needed Captains that could help build the training department so as to be able to expand and avoid the green-on-green type of scenario. They also noted that 'cannibalizing' the Dash Fleet was counterproductive (as the Dash Ops was making money, while the Jet ops was taking capital in the start up phase).

That said, the majority of those who were interested in moving bases, have done so; as far as I know. The expansion of bases (YOW, YUL, YVR) has been steadily increasing. Once again anecdotally, some bases have been able to be filled rather quickly while others have not. The most recent being 5 spots for CA and 5 spots for FO being advertised in YOW, with the result of 1 CA and 3 FO actually filling it.

YYC/YEG have been informally talked about amongst the pilot group in a speculative manner, at best. I'd love to see our western commuters not have to commute. I suspect once we have enough planes, pilots, and presence (routes); Porter may opt to open other bases. (I'd love for our eastern commuters to see a jet base at YHZ!)

This is definitely a sad event in Porter’s history. However, do you think someone with 16 years of dash-8 flying is able to pick up a slippery jet at FL390 and make it work like yesterday?

Jet experience was needed to make the training work, and those senior captains that wanted to come over have all been moved over. Yes it took time, but it was done in a way that had to be.

Internal FO to CA are happening, no more DEC. Also, with DTIP, those who get deferred are making E2 bucks.

It was a struggle, for sure.

I think there are unfortunately people who are still quietly disappointed with anyone who came in direct despite realizing this operation couldn't have been insured without significant jet experience and time above FL250 flying outside of the Porter Dash operational triangle. The way it was done was to mitigate liability while continuing to honour, where possible, seniority.

Regarding the Montreal comment, I certainly didn't see multitudes of former Dash pilots jumping at the Montreal base when it finally became open - Ottawa yes, but Montreal not so much. Most seats after the initial E1 DECs, that were mentioned as seniority jumpers, went to DEC and FOs in the later classes.

[accountant]

*IF* porter was to have a YYC base, other than trying to compete on YYC-YVR turns, there's still a big gap for YXE/YQA/YWG from when AC pulled back / out and left a void with just WS. Not sure what current yields are like there, but potentially there could be opportunity. Not sure if its enough to fill an E2 though unless it's 1x a day?

I'd pick Porter any day over WS/AC. .

Nicer crews (Pilots and FAs), clean planes, consistent service (you're not going to see a E2 replaced by a Dash on routes that they won't work on). Lack of labour unrest. Crews seem to want to work there....

[braaap Braap]

This is definitely a sad event in Porter’s history. However, do you think someone with 16 years of dash-8 flying is able to pick up a slippery jet at FL390 and make it work like yesterday?

Jet experience was needed to make the training work, and those senior captains that wanted to come over have all been moved over. Yes it took time, but it was done in a way that had to be.

Internal FO to CA are happening, no more DEC. Also, with DTIP, those who get deferred are making E2 bucks.

It was a struggle, for sure.

Nobody denies that DEC were necessary but the whole thing was given to us by KW as "We just need a few (I remember the number 25 being given in a call) DEC to get the training program going". 143 more DECs later and we still have D8 CAs and FOs unable to get into the seat that their seniority should allow them to hold.

It took time and it will continue to take more time than it should because the 3/class is a joke now that classes are so sporadic. DTIP is reserved for trainers. The Bypass list is jammed with people waiting for classes that are now full/suspended till the spring. But yay FO to CA upgrade program on the E2 so seniority can be abused even more.

It is still a struggle and it sucks that such a fun and exciting chapter of Porter's history is happening at the expense of the culture, comradery amongst crews, and enjoyment of the job.

I think there are unfortunately people who are still quietly disappointed with anyone who came in direct despite realizing this operation couldn't have been insured without significant jet experience and time above FL250 flying outside of the Porter Dash operational triangle. The way it was done was to mitigate liability while continuing to honour, where possible, seniority.

Regarding the Montreal comment, I certainly didn't see multitudes of former Dash pilots jumping at the Montreal base when it finally became open - Ottawa yes, but Montreal not so much. Most seats after the initial E1 DECs, that were mentioned as seniority jumpers, went to DEC and FOs in the later classes.

Unfortunate to hear people's disappointment being directed towards their fellow pilots. The disappointment should be directed towards the senior leadership that continues to allow seniority to be a flexible guideline even as the E2 operation hits its stride. We all could benefit from some teambuilding activities to get to know each other so its no longer these cliques of: OG Dash vs Sky Regional vs Overseas DEC

Regarding YUL. Of course not, it wasn't a legacy Porter base so most people with the seniority that allowed them to get off the Dash and onto the E2 had adjusted their lives to previous Porter bases years ago. Same reason YVR is going basically bottom of the list. People living in YUL, YVR, have come to Porter on the rumours and prospects of getting based at home with great seniority thanks to new bases. A few current dash pilots would have bid for YUL but you weren't allowed to bid for YUL unless you were on the E2 already. Subsequent bids had no ability to add backup bids.

[Canadaflyer46]

Reading posts like the last about guys in seats out of seniority I gotta wonder, when the hell are you unionizing?

[cjp]

Reading posts like the last about guys in seats out of seniority I gotta wonder, when the hell are you unionizing?

It's two separate OCs right now trying to act as one. Unionizing isn't fixing anything in the short to medium term with regards to staffing bypass. If I understand correctly, those from the Dash who can bid to the E2, are receiving bypass pay equivalent to their position on the E2 if they are to remain on the Dash. I believe a number of pilots are in this position.

It's a bandaid solution at best, but it is something.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Reading posts like the last about guys in seats out of seniority I gotta wonder, when the hell are you unionizing?

lol. So I can pay 2% of my salary to be dissapointed? I’m good for now. Thanks

Seniority is still a thing at porter. All the FOs or CAs hired before me will still be ahead of me. It’s just the flow that is slow.

And now that things are a little more stable, I hope this can be rectified

[braaap Braap]

Reading posts like the last about guys in seats out of seniority I gotta wonder, when the hell are you unionizing?

It's two separate OCs right now trying to act as one. Unionizing isn't fixing anything in the short to medium term with regards to staffing bypass. If I understand correctly, those from the Dash who can bid to the E2, are receiving bypass pay equivalent to their position on the E2 if they are to remain on the Dash. I believe a number of pilots are in this position.

It's a bandaid solution at best, but it is something.

Anybody can "bid for the E2" but only the top 3 most senior people's bids are awarded per class - not per month because "well don't worry we have a class every month so class/month is the same". Cue classes being cancelled/postponed due to the GTF issue. Anyway, If they're trainers they go on DTIP and the E2 pay starts the day the E2 groundschool runs that month. If they're not trainers, they begin accruing E2 years of service and pay after 90 days if they're still not in a class. No idea how long the bypass list is at this point.

lol. So I can pay 2% of my salary to be dissapointed? I’m good for now. Thanks

What a naive statement. I'm guessing and hoping you're being sarcastic but you're probably serious Good for now eh? Obviously not wanting to fearmonger, but what happens if you're not good? You'll snap your fingers and the ALPA people will roll in and save you?

Seniority is still a thing at porter. All the FOs or CAs hired before me will still be ahead of me. It’s just the flow that is slow.

And now that things are a little more stable, I hope this can be rectified

Thank you for not being one of these Direct Entry people that somehow rationalize the idea that dash transfers should go behind them. What did JA say at the info meeting? "Hope is not a strategy" or something like that

[cjp]

Reading posts like the last about guys in seats out of seniority I gotta wonder, when the hell are you unionizing?

It's two separate OCs right now trying to act as one. Unionizing isn't fixing anything in the short to medium term with regards to staffing bypass. If I understand correctly, those from the Dash who can bid to the E2, are receiving bypass pay equivalent to their position on the E2 if they are to remain on the Dash. I believe a number of pilots are in this position.

It's a bandaid solution at best, but it is something.

Anybody can "bid for the E2" but only the top 3 most senior people's bids are awarded per class - not per month because "well don't worry we have a class every month so class/month is the same". Cue classes being cancelled/postponed due to the GTF issue. Anyway, If they're trainers they go on DTIP and the E2 pay starts the day the E2 groundschool runs that month. If they're not trainers, they begin accruing E2 years of service and pay after 90 days if they're still not in a class. No idea how long the bypass list is at this point.

I take it you've got a ways till you make it to an E2 Ground school? I know that ALPA met with a number of pilots last month, looks like a mixed reaction from those that attended.

Let's see what the next benchmark is for both E2 and Dash. I imagine Dash will have to come up to drive the flow through.

[braaap Braap]

Anybody can "bid for the E2" but only the top 3 most senior people's bids are awarded per class - not per month because "well don't worry we have a class every month so class/month is the same". Cue classes being cancelled/postponed due to the GTF issue. Anyway, If they're trainers they go on DTIP and the E2 pay starts the day the E2 groundschool runs that month. If they're not trainers, they begin accruing E2 years of service and pay after 90 days if they're still not in a class. No idea how long the bypass list is at this point.

I take it you've got a ways till you make it to an E2 Ground school? I know that ALPA met with a number of pilots last month, looks like a mixed reaction from those that attended.

Let's see what the next benchmark is for both E2 and Dash. I imagine Dash will have to come up to drive the flow through.

I'm not sure how far I am from getting over. It's really hard to keep track as bypass/DTIP doesn't mean you're any closer to E2 GS date. Sometimes it feels around the corner, other times it's probably another year or 2 away.

Yes this next benchmark is setting up to be a pivotal moment for life here at Porter. Lot of people on the outside impressed with the payscale increases in the last 2 years. Lot of people on the inside getting fed up with the FOAG.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Anybody can "bid for the E2" but only the top 3 most senior people's bids are awarded per class - not per month because "well don't worry we have a class every month so class/month is the same". Cue classes being cancelled/postponed due to the GTF issue. Anyway, If they're trainers they go on DTIP and the E2 pay starts the day the E2 groundschool runs that month. If they're not trainers, they begin accruing E2 years of service and pay after 90 days if they're still not in a class. No idea how long the bypass list is at this point.

I take it you've got a ways till you make it to an E2 Ground school? I know that ALPA met with a number of pilots last month, looks like a mixed reaction from those that attended.

Let's see what the next benchmark is for both E2 and Dash. I imagine Dash will have to come up to drive the flow through.

I'm not sure how far I am from getting over. It's really hard to keep track as bypass/DTIP doesn't mean you're any closer to E2 GS date. Sometimes it feels around the corner, other times it's probably another year or 2 away.

Yes this next benchmark is setting up to be a pivotal moment for life here at Porter. Lot of people on the outside impressed with the payscale increases in the last 2 years. Lot of people on the inside getting fed up with the FOAG.

I heard a great word from one of our amazing cabin crew that was addicted to social media.

If you say the word “respectfully” in a sentence, you can say anything to anyone.

“Respectfully, the DECs were required. I’m sorry you’re still on the dash and waiting for the E2.”
It’ll happen for you sooner than later I hope. The irony of it all, the E2 is crazy different flying than the dash. So if you bring any of that mentality about how to fly airplanes, it won’t work.

Just a reminder, I said “respectfully”, so you can’t be upset at my comment as per new social rules. Lol. F*ck where is this world going