Jazz Approach Pilot Cadet Program - 44 year old

[coolmacs]

Hello everyone,

I am a mid career professional, and used to work in corporate as a business consultant. I would like to know if learning to become a pilot at the of age 44 is a good idea or not.

I came across Jazz Approach program, and they provide a conditional offer letter for successful candidates. However, from a pragmatic standpoint, is it advisable pursuing a flying career at age 44? Is it possible to adapt to new schedules and sleep patterns at this age (as I always worked 9-5). Is the career pathway still worth it? Any advice on the Jazz approach program itself in terms of ROI, as it costs at least 150000 CAD.

Looking forward to your advice and feedback, thanks!

[khedrei]

At 150k, I couldn't see you getting any ROI before you retire. Unless you love to fly, I wouldnt see that as a good career move at 44.

[digits_]

Nah. Go fly privately. For the next 10 years you'll be better off financially by keeping your career job and spending 150k on private flying. Judging by the questions you're asking, you'll like it better as well.

[Canadaflyer46]

I have a family friend doing all his training at a private school in AB for $75k. Not sure why you’d spend double that for the chance at working for Jazz.

[‘Bob’]

Jazz is so desperate they will take anyone. Save your money.

The schedule isn’t that bad. There’s no way I’d ever want to work a 9-5 and only have weekends off and most pilots feel the same way. The only thing that sucks is flying on the wrong side of the clock and hotel life.

[altiplano]

There's no way I would spend that for a job at Jazz. As said, they'll take anyone willing at this point anyway.

And somewhat dependant on your goals here, but for a short career window what does Jazz really offer?

You'd make more money and open up more opportunity flying a 703/704 turboprop for a few years and then either settle in there or a decent small sched operator at 100K+ as a Captain or jump straight to WJ/AC if you really want to do the big airline thing until you're 65.

Also if you're motivated and capable, you lose opportunity taking a long drawn out program. How long is that course? A couple years? Go start tomorrow and get your your PPL by early new year, then get your CPL and IFR fine immediately. If you're funded. there's no reason you can't be applying for jobs next summer if you go and start tomorrow.

[RayJr]

Another vote against that pathway thing.
I'm 43 and making the switch. Though, I already had my ppl and night rating when i decided to go for it. I own my own plane too. If you can swing it, buy and airplane and do your training in that. You can even sell the plane when you're done. Waiting on airplanes is the biggest slowdown in training in my experience. If you find the right freelance instructor and have your own IFR airplane, you can get done extremely fast and for a tiny fraction of the cost of that pathway business.

[khedrei]

If you are financially stable and like the idea of flying, definitely go learn as much as you can and fly for fun. Even though I still like flying and I am still learning lots, I have not enjoyed it as much as I did since I started working as a pilot.

In my opinion, Flying your own plane to Oshkosh, or to visit family and friends is way cooler, more enjoyable and satisfying than flying pax or cargo to the same places day in and day out.

I would not hesitate to learn how to fly, but I don't think I'd change my career unless you are really unhappy there.

[RayJr]

I'm a new guy in professional aviation but I am a veteran in amateur GA/Private ownership/"fun flying". I've been involved for many years, know dozens of private pilots and owners. Own a plane myself. Here's a little peek behind that curtain.

Without writing a whole novel I'll say this. Unless you are able to dedicate the equivalent cost of a house (or two) up front and a new corvette (or two) every year, us Canadians are pretty well limited to weekend/evening VFR scooting around - possible even only in the summer depending where you park. Which is fine, but it's not going to scratch the itch of wanting to be a proper pilot, fly cool planes, etc. In my humble opinion

[digits_]

I'm a new guy in professional aviation but I am a veteran in amateur GA/Private ownership/"fun flying". I've been involved for many years, know dozens of private pilots and owners. Own a plane myself. Here's a little peek behind that curtain.

Without writing a whole novel I'll say this. Unless you are able to dedicate the equivalent cost of a house (or two) up front and a new corvette (or two) every year, us Canadians are pretty well limited to weekend/evening VFR scooting around - possible even only in the summer depending where you park. Which is fine, but it's not going to scratch the itch of wanting to be a proper pilot, fly cool planes, etc. In my humble opinion

You must be quite unlucky then in your airplane ownership adventure. 150k should buy you a fairly well equipped and used IFR machine.

[RayJr]

I'm a new guy in professional aviation but I am a veteran in amateur GA/Private ownership/"fun flying". I've been involved for many years, know dozens of private pilots and owners. Own a plane myself. Here's a little peek behind that curtain.

Without writing a whole novel I'll say this. Unless you are able to dedicate the equivalent cost of a house (or two) up front and a new corvette (or two) every year, us Canadians are pretty well limited to weekend/evening VFR scooting around - possible even only in the summer depending where you park. Which is fine, but it's not going to scratch the itch of wanting to be a proper pilot, fly cool planes, etc. In my humble opinion

You must be quite unlucky then in your airplane ownership adventure. 150k should buy you a fairly well equipped and used IFR machine.

Should indeed. But doesn't. There's more too it. Nobody is out there flying regular IFR with passengers in a 150k airplane. Especially now with that the clouds are frozen until spring.

[digits_]

I'm a new guy in professional aviation but I am a veteran in amateur GA/Private ownership/"fun flying". I've been involved for many years, know dozens of private pilots and owners. Own a plane myself. Here's a little peek behind that curtain.

Without writing a whole novel I'll say this. Unless you are able to dedicate the equivalent cost of a house (or two) up front and a new corvette (or two) every year, us Canadians are pretty well limited to weekend/evening VFR scooting around - possible even only in the summer depending where you park. Which is fine, but it's not going to scratch the itch of wanting to be a proper pilot, fly cool planes, etc. In my humble opinion

You must be quite unlucky then in your airplane ownership adventure. 150k should buy you a fairly well equipped and used IFR machine.

Should indeed. But doesn't. There's more too it. Nobody is out there flying regular IFR with passengers in a 150k airplane. Especially now with that the clouds are frozen until spring.

That's just factually wrong. Plenty of IFR flights can still happen during winter time. Take off VMC and land at a southern destination IMC.

Flying and aircraft ownership can be expensive, but you don't need to be a millionaire to make it work.

[RayJr]

You must be quite unlucky then in your airplane ownership adventure. 150k should buy you a fairly well equipped and used IFR machine.

Should indeed. But doesn't. There's more too it. Nobody is out there flying regular IFR with passengers in a 150k airplane. Especially now with that the clouds are frozen until spring.

That's just factually wrong. Plenty of IFR flights can still happen during winter time. Take off VMC and land at a southern destination IMC.

Flying and aircraft ownership can be expensive, but you don't need to be a millionaire to make it work.

Haha, that's true. I should know, I've done it. I've flowing all over the continent in tiny airplanes.

The point is 2 fold. Private ownership doesn't live up to the fantasy that non-owners have about jumping in their plane and travelling around with their friends willynilly. Also, private ownership probably won't scratch the itch for OP unless he can afford an M500 or something along those lines.

I'm curious about the airplanes you've owned that have had so much travelling success. Friends and family and all for 150k. Very curious indeed.

[digits_]

Should indeed. But doesn't. There's more too it. Nobody is out there flying regular IFR with passengers in a 150k airplane. Especially now with that the clouds are frozen until spring.

That's just factually wrong. Plenty of IFR flights can still happen during winter time. Take off VMC and land at a southern destination IMC.

Flying and aircraft ownership can be expensive, but you don't need to be a millionaire to make it work.

Haha, that's true. I should know, I've done it. I've flowing all over the continent in tiny airplanes.

The point is 2 fold. Private ownership doesn't live up to the fantasy that non-owners have about jumping in their plane and travelling around with their friends willynilly. Also, private ownership probably won't scratch the itch for OP unless he can afford an M500 or something along those lines.

I'm curious about the airplanes you've owned that have had so much travelling success. Friends and family and all for 150k. Very curious indeed.

You keep changing the topic of discussion with every reply you make. First it was IFR flying that was impossible for 150k, now it's flying IFR during winter with friends AND family in a Piper M500. Because apparently that's what the OP wants? Of course you can't do that on a 150k budget. Nor is it required if you want to enjoy flying privately.

If you want to enjoy flying VFR, you can find C150 type aircraft, VFR Mooneys, or some experimental aircraft for the 40-60k mark.
If you want to fly IFR, you can find entry level IFR equipped singles (or even twins), such as Mooneys or Pipers for 80 to 120k. Or you can buy an ugly looking VFR aircraft for 40k, and spend 50k to 75k on instaling some IFR instruments.
Heck, you could even buy some old sovjet jet for 80k if you really wanted to. You'd be burning 1k an hour in jetfuel, but holy baloney would it be fun!

Either way, 150k can get you a lot of flying on your own terms. A sensation not a lot of commercial pilots will get to experience either, for what it's worth.

[RayJr]

That's just factually wrong. Plenty of IFR flights can still happen during winter time. Take off VMC and land at a southern destination IMC.

Flying and aircraft ownership can be expensive, but you don't need to be a millionaire to make it work.

Haha, that's true. I should know, I've done it. I've flowing all over the continent in tiny airplanes.

The point is 2 fold. Private ownership doesn't live up to the fantasy that non-owners have about jumping in their plane and travelling around with their friends willynilly. Also, private ownership probably won't scratch the itch for OP unless he can afford an M500 or something along those lines.

I'm curious about the airplanes you've owned that have had so much travelling success. Friends and family and all for 150k. Very curious indeed.

You keep changing the topic of discussion with every reply you make. First it was IFR flying that was impossible for 150k, now it's flying IFR during winter with friends AND family in a Piper M500. Because apparently that's what the OP wants? Of course you can't do that on a 150k budget. Nor is it required if you want to enjoy flying privately.

If you want to enjoy flying VFR, you can find C150 type aircraft, VFR Mooneys, or some experimental aircraft for the 40-60k mark.
If you want to fly IFR, you can find entry level IFR equipped singles (or even twins), such as Mooneys or Pipers for 80 to 120k. Or you can buy an ugly looking VFR aircraft for 40k, and spend 50k to 75k on instaling some IFR instruments.
Heck, you could even buy some old sovjet jet for 80k if you really wanted to. You'd be burning 1k an hour in jetfuel, but holy baloney would it be fun!

Either way, 150k can get you a lot of flying on your own terms. A sensation not a lot of commercial pilots will get to experience either, for what it's worth.

Yup, Lots of things you could do.

OP, if you are interested in flying privately maybe PM me. I would be happy to tell you all about the ins and outs.

You would never be insured on a Soviet jet though. Be careful about AVCanada advice

[digits_]

You would never be insured on a Soviet jet though.

Again, not true. Marsh's silver wings program covers liability on jets such as the L29 and L39. I'll admit this information is 4 years old, but nothing on their website indicates that this policy would have changed. It's linked to the pilot, not the airplane.

Be careful about AVCanada advice

Yes, be careful.

[RayJr]

You would never be insured on a Soviet jet though.

Again, not true. Marsh's silver wings program covers liability on jets such as the L29 and L39. I'll admit this information is 4 years old, but nothing on their website indicates that this policy would have changed. It's linked to the pilot, not the airplane.

Be careful about AVCanada advice

Yes, be careful.

Haha, OP, call them up and get a quote. I'll save you the trouble. Call us back when you have a few thousand hours plus jet PIC time.

[digits_]

You would never be insured on a Soviet jet though.

Again, not true. Marsh's silver wings program covers liability on jets such as the L29 and L39. I'll admit this information is 4 years old, but nothing on their website indicates that this policy would have changed. It's linked to the pilot, not the airplane.

Be careful about AVCanada advice

Yes, be careful.

Haha, OP, call them up and get a quote. I'll save you the trouble. Call us back when you have a few thousand hours plus jet PIC time.

*Sigh*

That's not how the silver wing program works. You apply online, and select a max value of hull insurance if you require ground coverage. It doesn't matter if you fly an 85k c172 or an 85k jet. It's mainly about liability.

For their goldwing program, which includes hull coverage while flying, experience does become a factor, and warbirds aren't insurable.