Looking for advice as a new immigrant pilot

[StrayPilot]

Hi all, I've been reading through and following this forum for a while to familiarize myself with the industry in Canada. By mid of this year, I'll be landing in Canada as a PR. I've completed my TC medicals early since I know how delayed it could get, and I'll be getting started on my license conversion process after landing. Following is my experience level:
CPL holder (due to lack of night flying time)
Total time: 5400+
Multi engine: 1300+
Night: 31
Instrument: 1000+

Majority of my experience is in 406 and around 400-500 hours in 702 and 703 operations, all in piston engines.

I wanted get some advice on how to proceed through my job applications after my conversion is done. I haven't attempted to apply in any company yet because I know it would be pointless without a PR card and TC license in hand. So here are my questions:

1) Is it better to study and write SARON and SAMRA along with my conversion, and try my luck directly with a 704 or 705? Would it be difficult to build up PIC hours to meet ATPL requirements of TC if that's the way I go (the 25 hours night cross PIC)?

2) Or would it make better sense to try to get a job with smaller operator and build some PIC experience and time before going to airlines? I would also get some better experience with the local airspace in this case

Any advice would be appreciated, since I'd prefer not to show up unprepared

[Me262]

Apply your forever company, rent a plane for the 25 night PIC cx

[StrayPilot]

Apply your forever company, rent a plane for the 25 night PIC cx

Thanks for your response, appreciate it.

I was also thinking along the same lines.

So is it recommended to apply for the airlines and rent for the 25 hours night PIC while I'm working on the side, or build the hours before starting to apply seriously?

If I attempt to apply at AC for example, they already require an ATPL as a minimum requirement, although the hours is 2000, while the other airlines are okay with an IATRA or SARON/SAMRA.

So if AC is the goal, what kind of operations would be best for me to build both my 100 hours night as well as the 25 hours night PIC cross and get the ATPL before moving on?

[digits_]

You have over 5000 hours. Lots of operators would love to hire you. But the best jobs will require you to have an ATPL.

Go rent a plane for 69 hours.

Alternatively, go fly for a medevac operator to get your night time up. But you'll likely spend more on paying out a bond when you want to leave than just paying for the night hours.

How many PIC or multi PIC hours do you have?

[StrayPilot]

You have over 5000 hours. Lots of operators would love to hire you. But the best jobs will require you to have an ATPL.

Go rent a plane for 69 hours.

Alternatively, go fly for a medevac operator to get your night time up. But you'll likely spend more on paying out a bond when you want to leave than just paying for the night hours.

That's nice to hear. The problem is while moving to Canada and initial conversion process and everything, I'd be burning through a huge chunk of my savings. So if there would be a way to work through the hours for ATPL before moving on, it would seem like a better alternative.

Would you know how many years on average a medevac operator's bond period usually last? What other such operations could you suggest to build up night and PIC time?

How many PIC or multi PIC hours do you have?

Around 1200 hours are PIC hours on the Seneca

[digits_]

I think most medevac bonds are 1 year, pro rated per month. Some are 18 months or 2 years. It's a fun job for a few months, after that it gets old really quickly.

[Bede]

I'd go to an operator that doesn't require an ATPL and has a quick upgrade (Metro, King Air, etc. - check out any of the operators in Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, etc.) Get a year under your belt to get your ATPL and get familiarized with Canada. After that, I'm sure you'll be able to pick a job wherever you want to live.

[StrayPilot]

Thank you all for your responses. This thread has been very helpful, I now have a quite solid idea on how to go about things once I arrive.

Hopefully things will go as smooth as I'm picturing right now in my head.

[propstojets]

Just out of pure curiosity, where are you coming from? Was all of your experience instructing? Cheers!

[StrayPilot]

Just out of pure curiosity, where are you coming from? Was all of your experience instructing? Cheers!

I would love to divulge more info but unfortunately where I'm coming from, the aviation community, especially general aviation is quite small, and this in turn makes me quite well known due to my position and experience. My plans are not completely finalized and I'd like to give my employer the required notice period only once they are.

I've been working as the chief flying instructor in a flight school and stayed in instructing for a long time because I enjoy teaching. The company also has 703 operations so I fly those as well when the main charter pilots are not around.

Now after years of instructing I find myself starting to get a bit impatient in the cockpit and feel like it's time to move on to something new. After the pandemic, all operators around this area are requiring new pilots to pay for their own type rating whether they have 200 hours or 5000 hours, hence looking for a new scenery with better and fair opportunities like Canada has.

[propstojets]

Cool, well good luck!

[StrayPilot]

Thank you

[Me262]

Just out of pure curiosity, where are you coming from? Was all of your experience instructing? Cheers!

I would love to divulge more info but unfortunately where I'm coming from, the aviation community, especially general aviation is quite small, and this in turn makes me quite well known due to my position and experience. My plans are not completely finalized and I'd like to give my employer the required notice period only once they are.

I've been working as the chief flying instructor in a flight school and stayed in instructing for a long time because I enjoy teaching. The company also has 703 operations so I fly those as well when the main charter pilots are not around.

Now after years of instructing I find myself starting to get a bit impatient in the cockpit and feel like it's time to move on to something new. After the pandemic, all operators around this area are requiring new pilots to pay for their own type rating whether they have 200 hours or 5000 hours, hence looking for a new scenery with better and fair opportunities like Canada has.

How did you manage not to fly at all at night working as an instructor? I guess CFI you only had 9-5 type schedule. But not even during the 703 ops?

[StrayPilot]

Just out of pure curiosity, where are you coming from? Was all of your experience instructing? Cheers!

I would love to divulge more info but unfortunately where I'm coming from, the aviation community, especially general aviation is quite small, and this in turn makes me quite well known due to my position and experience. My plans are not completely finalized and I'd like to give my employer the required notice period only once they are.

I've been working as the chief flying instructor in a flight school and stayed in instructing for a long time because I enjoy teaching. The company also has 703 operations so I fly those as well when the main charter pilots are not around.

Now after years of instructing I find myself starting to get a bit impatient in the cockpit and feel like it's time to move on to something new. After the pandemic, all operators around this area are requiring new pilots to pay for their own type rating whether they have 200 hours or 5000 hours, hence looking for a new scenery with better and fair opportunities like Canada has.

How did you manage not to fly at all at night working as an instructor? I guess CFI you only had 9-5 type schedule. But not even during the 703 ops?

Where I'm flying, night operations are practically non-existent unless you're a 704/705. Night VFR is against regulations and IFR flights mandate dual crew, or an auto-pilot on board if single-pilot, irrespective of what aircraft you're flying. Number of airports certified for night operations are also very few, in single digit. Our 703 aircraft still only carry basic instrumentation and the most advanced might be a GNC 355 coupled with dual G5.

Even for the sake of issue of CPL/IR for students, the 200 hours towards the license does not include any night time in the local regulations (as I mentioned, the general aviation community is very small, so the path for pilots is generally CPL/IR>>Type rating>>Junior FO in a 705). We fly night only for international students who have the requirement in their country for license conversion.

That being said, I should mention I didn't enthusiastically go forward to teach night flying to those who required it and build my time, because my workload in the day-time was high and the times I did night, I could really feel the fatigue weighing in. I also never saw getting an ATPL before joining airlines as important because I didn't have such plans of migration before, and the local operators didn't value it in the resume as much. So my lack of enthusiasm has circled back to bite me in the ass.

[Me262]

I would love to divulge more info but unfortunately where I'm coming from, the aviation community, especially general aviation is quite small, and this in turn makes me quite well known due to my position and experience. My plans are not completely finalized and I'd like to give my employer the required notice period only once they are.

I've been working as the chief flying instructor in a flight school and stayed in instructing for a long time because I enjoy teaching. The company also has 703 operations so I fly those as well when the main charter pilots are not around.

Now after years of instructing I find myself starting to get a bit impatient in the cockpit and feel like it's time to move on to something new. After the pandemic, all operators around this area are requiring new pilots to pay for their own type rating whether they have 200 hours or 5000 hours, hence looking for a new scenery with better and fair opportunities like Canada has.

How did you manage not to fly at all at night working as an instructor? I guess CFI you only had 9-5 type schedule. But not even during the 703 ops?

Where I'm flying, night operations are practically non-existent unless you're a 704/705. Night VFR is against regulations and IFR flights mandate dual crew, or an auto-pilot on board if single-pilot, irrespective of what aircraft you're flying. Number of airports certified for night operations are also very few, in single digit. Our 703 aircraft still only carry basic instrumentation and the most advanced might be a GNC 355 coupled with dual G5.

Even for the sake of issue of CPL/IR for students, the 200 hours towards the license does not include any night time in the local regulations (as I mentioned, the general aviation community is very small, so the path for pilots is generally CPL/IR>>Type rating>>Junior FO in a 705). We fly night only for international students who have the requirement in their country for license conversion.

That being said, I should mention I didn't enthusiastically go forward and to teach night flying to those who required it and build my time, because of my workload in the day-time was high and the times I did night, I could really feel the fatigue weighing in. I also never saw getting an ATPL before joining airlines as important because I didn't have such plans of migration before, and the local operators didn't value it in the resume as much. So my lack of enthusiasm has circled back to bite me in the ass.

Are you training EASA pilots? Those that just get a FO 705 jobs after fight school, how are they going to build up PIC required for ATPL unless they are EASA where they can get all their ATPL requirements as PICUS after finishing CPL from flight school.

[StrayPilot]

How did you manage not to fly at all at night working as an instructor? I guess CFI you only had 9-5 type schedule. But not even during the 703 ops?

Where I'm flying, night operations are practically non-existent unless you're a 704/705. Night VFR is against regulations and IFR flights mandate dual crew, or an auto-pilot on board if single-pilot, irrespective of what aircraft you're flying. Number of airports certified for night operations are also very few, in single digit. Our 703 aircraft still only carry basic instrumentation and the most advanced might be a GNC 355 coupled with dual G5.

Even for the sake of issue of CPL/IR for students, the 200 hours towards the license does not include any night time in the local regulations (as I mentioned, the general aviation community is very small, so the path for pilots is generally CPL/IR>>Type rating>>Junior FO in a 705). We fly night only for international students who have the requirement in their country for license conversion.

That being said, I should mention I didn't enthusiastically go forward and to teach night flying to those who required it and build my time, because of my workload in the day-time was high and the times I did night, I could really feel the fatigue weighing in. I also never saw getting an ATPL before joining airlines as important because I didn't have such plans of migration before, and the local operators didn't value it in the resume as much. So my lack of enthusiasm has circled back to bite me in the ass.

Are you training EASA pilots? Those that just get a FO 705 jobs after fight school, how are they going to build up PIC required for ATPL unless they are EASA where they can get all their ATPL requirements as PICUS after finishing CPL from flight school.

Not EASA pilots, but the requirements for ATPL are different country to country. The definition of PIC varies as per the individual interpretation of what's handed out by ICAO. Even PIC requirements are different for different licences.

In the regulations here, time built as a co-pilot of a 705 is allowed to be credited towards ATPL requirements. Attached is an excerpt from the local regulations as a sample.

IMG_20240112_205247.jpg (394.11 KiB) Viewed 4777 times

You can see how easy it is to enter into the airlines as a fresh graduate and eventually become captain

[Me262]

Where I'm flying, night operations are practically non-existent unless you're a 704/705. Night VFR is against regulations and IFR flights mandate dual crew, or an auto-pilot on board if single-pilot, irrespective of what aircraft you're flying. Number of airports certified for night operations are also very few, in single digit. Our 703 aircraft still only carry basic instrumentation and the most advanced might be a GNC 355 coupled with dual G5.

Even for the sake of issue of CPL/IR for students, the 200 hours towards the license does not include any night time in the local regulations (as I mentioned, the general aviation community is very small, so the path for pilots is generally CPL/IR>>Type rating>>Junior FO in a 705). We fly night only for international students who have the requirement in their country for license conversion.

That being said, I should mention I didn't enthusiastically go forward and to teach night flying to those who required it and build my time, because of my workload in the day-time was high and the times I did night, I could really feel the fatigue weighing in. I also never saw getting an ATPL before joining airlines as important because I didn't have such plans of migration before, and the local operators didn't value it in the resume as much. So my lack of enthusiasm has circled back to bite me in the ass.

Are you training EASA pilots? Those that just get a FO 705 jobs after fight school, how are they going to build up PIC required for ATPL unless they are EASA where they can get all their ATPL requirements as PICUS after finishing CPL from flight school.

Not EASA pilots, but the requirements for ATPL are different country to country. The definition of PIC varies as per the individual interpretation of what's handed out by ICAO. Even PIC requirements are different for different licences.

In the regulations here, time built as a co-pilot of a 705 is allowed to be credited towards ATPL requirements. Attached is an excerpt from the local regulations as a sample.

IMG_20240112_205247.jpg

You can see how easy it is to enter into the airlines as a fresh graduate and eventually become captain

Curious, which country if this?

[StrayPilot]

Curious, which country if this?

As I mentioned earlier, I'd rather not be too specific at the interest of maintaining anonymity, but I'll be sure to re-update this thread with specifics once I'm out of here and in the clear

But just for info since I've dealt with CARs of many different countries, outside of the US and Canada, the only thing common among the ATPL requirements is the 1500 hours total time, 100 hours night and the age restriction. Other than that, the PIC requirements are just at the behest at the local regulator, mostly because in some countries, a "pilot" 90% of the time means only "airline pilot" (to the general public).

[StrayPilot]

Hi all, just wanted to post an update here and looking for some additional advice from you all. It's been a long since I made my original post and an extremely hectic year for me, since I've done the following things:

1) I've already moved to Canada.
2) I completed all my night requirements for ATPL where I was flying earlier, before moving here.
3) I did not apply for ATPL in my country of origin because by the time I completed my requirements, it was already time to move to Canada.
4) I finished all exams (CPAER, INRAT, SARON, SAMRA) as well as the CPL and Group 1 IFR flight tests.
5) Applied for CPL conversion.
6) Applied also for ATPL.

So basically I've completed everything I have to do from my side and the ball is in TC's court.

What came out of all the above is that I'm sitting around doing nothing, holding just a Canadian Cat 1 medical and Radio Operators license and waiting for TC to issue me something (ADB, CPL with group 1, ATPL)

My doubt is, should I wait until I get one of the above licenses in hand before I start applying for jobs? Because most websites ask "Do you possess a valid ATPL", with a "Yes" or "No" option, can't really say there that I hold it, but there isn't also a way to say it's processing.

I had also talked to TC representatives in the office regarding expediting my application, and they told me that if I get a job offer letter and send it to them, they might be able to expedite the application before the prescribed 30 to 40 business days.

I'm foreseeing myself sitting idle waiting for my license until January at minimum if I don't start doing something.

What do you think I should do in this situation?

[digits_]

Say that you hold the license while applying. Once you talk to a human being you can tell them TC is processing it.

Also ask TC for a temporary license. You'll likely have to pay for it, but it should be emailed to you within a week, unless that policy has changed lately as well.

[StrayPilot]

Say that you hold the license while applying. Once you talk to a human being you can tell them TC is processing it.

I was considering doing that but I wasn't really sure if it was okay due to technicalities. I guess I'll just start applying and see where it goes, thanks for your reassurance.

Also ask TC for a temporary license. You'll likely have to pay for it, but it should be emailed to you within a week, unless that policy has changed lately as well.

I will definitely try and contact them regarding that. Things would've been so much easier if I can talk to a human being in TC face to face, they take quite a while to respond to emails.

[canadianfly]

First of all welcome to your new country, it's always nice to have some extra hands.
If you're missing 25 hrs only, don't waist time and go straight for the main course.

I recommend you start applying asap even if you don't have your booklet, i suppose you have your green license and your writtens, that should be enough to get you started.

If not already done so, start your C1/D visa application asap, no 705 ops will hire you without it.

If you're out west, i suggest you apply at WJ, if near YYZ area your best bet would be Porter or Jazz, if in YUL area, i would recommend Jazz or PAL.
Please avoid cargo ops, eveyone i know ended up or is about to leave.

Since you are a new immigrant, i highly recommend not to commute, it's already hard enough to come to a new country but leaving your family for strings of days alone is difficult.

I know you've been living on your savings but please resist the temptation of grabbing the first call that comes, you have enough hours to grab something descent.

Don't hesitate to reach out mate, best of luck

[StrayPilot]

First of all welcome to your new country, it's always nice to have some extra hands.
If you're missing 25 hrs only, don't waist time and go straight for the main course.

Thank you I'm not lacking the hours any more, I have all the requirements I need.

I recommend you start applying asap even if you don't have your booklet, i suppose you have your green license and your writtens, that should be enough to get you started.

If not already done so, start your C1/D visa application asap, no 705 ops will hire you without it.

Regarding the C1/D, I had put up a post here before. It's quite a conundrum, I had attempted to apply for it before coming here but the visa officer denied it saying I should be applying it with a letter from the employer. Kind of a "need it for the job, need a job for it" kind of thing. Kind of a pickle. The extremely huge waiting period in Canadian US consulates don't help either.

If you're out west, i suggest you apply at WJ, if near YYZ area your best bet would be Porter or Jazz, if in YUL area, i would recommend Jazz or PAL.
Please avoid cargo ops, eveyone i know ended up or is about to leave.

Since you are a new immigrant, i highly recommend not to commute, it's already hard enough to come to a new country but leaving your family for strings of days alone is difficult.

I know you've been living on your savings but please resist the temptation of grabbing the first call that comes, you have enough hours to grab something descent.

Don't hesitate to reach out mate, best of luck

Thank you so much for the advice, appreciate it.

[digits_]

Regarding the C1/D, I had put up a post here before. It's quite a conundrum, I had attempted to apply for it before coming here but the visa officer denied it saying I should be applying it with a letter from the employer. Kind of a "need it for the job, need a job for it" kind of thing. Kind of a pickle. The extremely huge waiting period in Canadian US consulates don't help either.

You might be able to try and schedule an appointment. It's only at the moment of the appointment that you need the letter. and as long as you don't have a job, you can push back the appointment.

Not sure how often they let you do that though, not sure if it's frowned upon either. But it *might* be an option if you're concerned.

[StrayPilot]

Regarding the C1/D, I had put up a post here before. It's quite a conundrum, I had attempted to apply for it before coming here but the visa officer denied it saying I should be applying it with a letter from the employer. Kind of a "need it for the job, need a job for it" kind of thing. Kind of a pickle. The extremely huge waiting period in Canadian US consulates don't help either.

You might be able to try and schedule an appointment. It's only at the moment of the appointment that you need the letter. and as long as you don't have a job, you can push back the appointment.

Not sure how often they let you do that though, not sure if it's frowned upon either. But it *might* be an option if you're concerned.

Guess you're right, I think I'll go ahead and do that. There's no limit to how many times you can push an interview I guess. As long as you do it within a reasonable time frame.