Helicopter hours towards regional (Encore / Jazz)?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Not really to be honest. We are rated and fly our minimums but we have no icing protection or weather radar, so skud running under the ceilings is generally our way.

I am an instrument check pilot, which means I do IFR checkrides and instruction, so I have a bit more experience and training than the average heli pilot. It’s certainly still not the same as thousands of hours of experience, but it’ll help and I certainly plan to emphasize it in my application!

Flight schools are desperate for IFR instructors. If you are in Edmonton for the next few years it might be worth your while to talk to the local schools and see about doing some part time IFR instructing. That will give you more fixed wing time when you make the jump.

This is definitely an option I'm keeping in my back pocket, but it would require that I get (and pay for) my flight instructor rating. The flight instructor qual that I hold (separate from the ICP qual) isn't recognized by TC for equivalency, it's more akin to a training captain than an ab initio instructor (in the RCAF that would be a QFI). I'll certainly pursue the option if necessary but ideally I'd like to skip that step, and additional expense, if I can.

CARS 425.21 (9)

You can teach IFR without an instructor rating.

https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... ars#425_21

9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence, have an instrument rating and:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(a) have a flight instructor rating; or
(amended 2006/12/14)

(b) have experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, of which:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23)

[Ruger Princess]

Flight schools are desperate for IFR instructors. If you are in Edmonton for the next few years it might be worth your while to talk to the local schools and see about doing some part time IFR instructing. That will give you more fixed wing time when you make the jump.

This is definitely an option I'm keeping in my back pocket, but it would require that I get (and pay for) my flight instructor rating. The flight instructor qual that I hold (separate from the ICP qual) isn't recognized by TC for equivalency, it's more akin to a training captain than an ab initio instructor (in the RCAF that would be a QFI). I'll certainly pursue the option if necessary but ideally I'd like to skip that step, and additional expense, if I can.

CARS 425.21 (9)

You can teach IFR without an instructor rating.

https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... ars#425_21

9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence, have an instrument rating and:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(a) have a flight instructor rating; or
(amended 2006/12/14)

(b) have experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, of which:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23)

Also @careerpilot - pretty sure they have easy x-over cert for military (compared to us) to a) get civi licence and b) transition to fixed wing at half the time.

This below is a good resource to start with.

[careerpilot?]

CARS 425.21 (9)

You can teach IFR without an instructor rating.

https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... ars#425_21

9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence, have an instrument rating and:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(a) have a flight instructor rating; or
(amended 2006/12/14)

(b) have experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, of which:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23)

Great info, thanks!

Also @careerpilot - pretty sure they have easy x-over cert for military (compared to us) to a) get civi licence and b) transition to fixed wing at half the time.

This below is a good resource to start with.

Thanks for the info. I've already converted my wings to a CPL(H) - that was super easy, and will be writing INRAT soon for Group 4. From there it's the standard helo to FW conversion credits, nothing special credited for DND. Mostly I'm just going to have to do the 65hrs (30 solo, 35 dual), with a few credits towards instrument and night from my CPL(H). Overall it shouldn't be too onerous.

The next leap will be ensuring I have the PIC time for ATPL(A)... That's going to be more of a challenge - though CaptDukeNukem may have just solved that problem for me!

[Conflicting Traffic]

From there it's the standard helo to FW conversion credits, nothing special credited for DND. Mostly I'm just going to have to do the 65hrs (30 solo, 35 dual), with a few credits towards instrument and night from my CPL(H). Overall it shouldn't be too onerous.

The KF instructors in Southport are civilian qualified operating under a civilian OC. So any hours you did on the Grob count toward this requirement. So all of your Phase 1 training, as well as Phase 2 if you did it on the Grob. I'm not sure how that holds up if you did Phase 2 in Moose Jaw, but if any of your instructors there happened to hold civi instructor ratings, hours with them would likely count as well.

[Ruger Princess]

CARS 425.21 (9)

You can teach IFR without an instructor rating.

https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... ars#425_21

9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence, have an instrument rating and:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(a) have a flight instructor rating; or
(amended 2006/12/14)

(b) have experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, of which:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23)

Great info, thanks!

Also @careerpilot - pretty sure they have easy x-over cert for military (compared to us) to a) get civi licence and b) transition to fixed wing at half the time.

This below is a good resource to start with.

Thanks for the info. I've already converted my wings to a CPL(H) - that was super easy, and will be writing INRAT soon for Group 4. From there it's the standard helo to FW conversion credits, nothing special credited for DND. Mostly I'm just going to have to do the 65hrs (30 solo, 35 dual), with a few credits towards instrument and night from my CPL(H). Overall it shouldn't be too onerous.

The next leap will be ensuring I have the PIC time for ATPL(A)... That's going to be more of a challenge - though CaptDukeNukem may have just solved that problem for me!

Sorry INRAT for heli? Because that's the group 4 or INRAT with looking at aeroplane hence group 1 since you have your wings already?

If you have wings, why bother with increasing training (unless mandatory for work) than you have to? Why not streamline everything for fixed since you're looking at Jazz/Encore?

Def spend a heck of a lot less money. But if military pays for training heli - then probs best to glean it.

Must have missed something.

What aircraft did you fly fixed? Or did you fly heli in the airforce and I missed that entirely?

Hubby was stationed in Cold Lake.

Cheers

[Ruger Princess]

Good morning all,

I haven't posted on or visited these forums in ages - Some years ago I posted as I was considering a career change from Army to commercial pilot. Thankfully my luck was good, and I was successful in transferring to the RCAF as a pilot. I currently fly helicopters (CH146, or B412 in civilian terms).

I'm approaching my 25 year pension (2.5 years to go), and am starting to look towards the next bound. What I would really like to do is fly fixed wing airline.

So my main question: How relevant will helicopter hours (multi engine turbine) be towards hiring requirements for Encore / Jazz?

For some background, by hiring time I will have over 2000hrs of Multi crew, multi engine turbine helicopter (approx 1500 PIC).

I already have my CPL(H) and PPL(A) with multi rating (just over 200hrs FW TT now), and will have Group 4 IFR once I write the INRAT.

My plan is to then do what conversion training is necessary to acquire CPL(A) and Group 1 IFR, using as many credits from DND and my previous FW as possible. Once I have these ratings, I would expect to be around 2500hrs total time, but low fixed wing - probably in the vicinity of 300hrs, 100 PIC.

Using Encore as an example (I'd like to be Calgary based if able), I would technically meet the 750TT, 100 FW PIC requirements, assuming helo time would be counted, even if at half time.

Does anyone have any insight into how the regionals would count the helo time? Is it worth full time, half time, nothing? Understanding the industry is very fluid and things will change in 2.5 years, if you were looking at this today, would this be a competitive application? Or should I be looking towards an instructor rating, or smaller goals for a few years, to build up more FW time?


Thanks all in advance, clear skies!

I see now. Please disregard last post.

You still have to have your mulit-IFR group 1. (So why waste more time on Group 4?) Your ATPL (A), you still need their requirements not heli and as you've mentioned, you've converted a decent amount but you're right, you only have so much you can use as credit from DND and heli.

Best to contact TC or just take what you've got and go all in on fixed training. Sorry. I respect long servings Vets. God knows my immediate family is full of them, but fixed requirements for ATPL is still the same. No short circuiting.

Of course I'm not TC so who knows.

They're not going to transition you on Harvards in MJ. That's usually for new fixed pilots. Maybe. I'm not in. Hubby was as was my dad-in-law.

My dad was army.

But all kidding aside, pay the price. Hahaha.

[Big Pistons Forever]

They're not going to transition you on Harvards in MJ. That's usually for new fixed pilots

I know of several Seaking guys that did that. Bottom line the RCAF is desperate and in the CAF you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate. However I believe COMHOMECOM has vetoed this option based on an earlier post.

[Ruger Princess]

They're not going to transition you on Harvards in MJ. That's usually for new fixed pilots

I know of several Seaking guys that did that. Bottom line the RCAF is desperate and in the CAF you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate. However I believe COMHOMECOM has vetoed this option based on an earlier post.

Not sure negotiating is optional lol. Imagine telling a Sargeant what you want.

But seriously, hubby was with the F18 as was his dad, helis (short time) and the Hercs. But mostly F18. Unless the CAF has changed drastically in the last 7yrs after he got out, pretty sure you can't.

But times change. Did you spend time in the military Big Pistons?

Sea Kings are a bit diff. They've been retired at least 10 yrs more or less. Were these recent guys?

Also missed the Veto post.

How's FI going??! Still doing it?

[Ruger Princess]

They're not going to transition you on Harvards in MJ. That's usually for new fixed pilots

I know of several Seaking guys that did that. Bottom line the RCAF is desperate and in the CAF you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate. However I believe COMHOMECOM has vetoed this option based on an earlier post.

Not sure negotiating is optional lol. Imagine telling a Sargeant what you want.

But seriously, hubby was with the F18 as was his dad, helis (short time) and the Hercs. But mostly F18. Unless the CAF has changed drastically in the last 7yrs after he got out, pretty sure you can't.

But times change. Did you spend time in the military Big Pistons?

Sea Kings are a bit diff. They've been retired at least 6 yrs more or less (had to double check!). Were these recent guys?

Also missed the Veto post.

How's FI going??! Still doing it?

[careerpilot?]

They're not going to transition you on Harvards in MJ. That's usually for new fixed pilots

I know of several Seaking guys that did that. Bottom line the RCAF is desperate and in the CAF you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate. However I believe COMHOMECOM has vetoed this option based on an earlier post.

COMHOMECOM, that's a good one! I usually use 9'er domestic

You still have to have your mulit-IFR group 1. (So why waste more time on Group 4?) Your ATPL (A), you still need their requirements not heli and as you've mentioned, you've converted a decent amount but you're right, you only have so much you can use as credit from DND and heli.

Either way I need to write the INRAT - doing so immediately grants me a Group 4 to bolt onto my CPL(H), as my RCAF instrument ticket grants me the skill requirement. That group 4 can then be credited to a Group 1 with only 10hrs training in aeroplanes (much of which I may be able to credit from elsewhere) and a multi IFR checkride. That'll be quicker than doing a full IFR syllabus.

From there it's the standard helo to FW conversion credits, nothing special credited for DND. Mostly I'm just going to have to do the 65hrs (30 solo, 35 dual), with a few credits towards instrument and night from my CPL(H). Overall it shouldn't be too onerous.

The KF instructors in Southport are civilian qualified operating under a civilian OC. So any hours you did on the Grob count toward this requirement. So all of your Phase 1 training, as well as Phase 2 if you did it on the Grob. I'm not sure how that holds up if you did Phase 2 in Moose Jaw, but if any of your instructors there happened to hold civi instructor ratings, hours with them would likely count as well.

Good point! I did Moose Jaw phase 2, and their sims are not TC certified either, so short of contacting all my old instructors to find out if they by chance had instructor tickets, probably no moose jaw credits to be used.

The 20hrs of Grob dual on Phase 1, however... Good call! But this leads to another question. Are flight schools likely to endorse a candidate for CPL flight test if they haven't conducted all or most of the instruction? Can they sign off those credits in the PTR?

[Ruger Princess]

They're not going to transition you on Harvards in MJ. That's usually for new fixed pilots

I know of several Seaking guys that did that. Bottom line the RCAF is desperate and in the CAF you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate. However I believe COMHOMECOM has vetoed this option based on an earlier post.

COMHOMECOM, that's a good one! I usually use 9'er domestic

You still have to have your mulit-IFR group 1. (So why waste more time on Group 4?) Your ATPL (A), you still need their requirements not heli and as you've mentioned, you've converted a decent amount but you're right, you only have so much you can use as credit from DND and heli.

Either way I need to write the INRAT - doing so immediately grants me a Group 4 to bolt onto my CPL(H), as my RCAF instrument ticket grants me the skill requirement. That group 4 can then be credited to a Group 1 with only 10hrs training in aeroplanes (much of which I may be able to credit from elsewhere) and a multi IFR checkride. That'll be quicker than doing a full IFR syllabus.

From there it's the standard helo to FW conversion credits, nothing special credited for DND. Mostly I'm just going to have to do the 65hrs (30 solo, 35 dual), with a few credits towards instrument and night from my CPL(H). Overall it shouldn't be too onerous.

The KF instructors in Southport are civilian qualified operating under a civilian OC. So any hours you did on the Grob count toward this requirement. So all of your Phase 1 training, as well as Phase 2 if you did it on the Grob. I'm not sure how that holds up if you did Phase 2 in Moose Jaw, but if any of your instructors there happened to hold civi instructor ratings, hours with them would likely count as well.

Good point! I did Moose Jaw phase 2, and their sims are not TC certified either, so short of contacting all my old instructors to find out if they by chance had instructor tickets, probably no moose jaw credits to be used.

The 20hrs of Grob dual on Phase 1, however... Good call! But this leads to another question. Are flight schools likely to endorse a candidate for CPL flight test if they haven't conducted all or most of the instruction? Can they sign off those credits in the PTR?

No.


https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... ars#421_30

Good Luck

[Conflicting Traffic]

Are flight schools likely to endorse a candidate for CPL flight test if they haven't conducted all or most of the instruction?

That *shouldn't* be a problem, but maybe get confirmation from the school before spending money. The cynical side of me suggests to get that confirmation in writing:).

Can they sign off those credits in the PTR?

Talk to TC or an authorized person about documentation requirements. You're not the first person to do this, so whatever paperwork hurdles are involved have been dealt with before.

[Me262]

CARS 425.21 (9)

You can teach IFR without an instructor rating.

https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-servi ... ars#425_21

9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence, have an instrument rating and:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(a) have a flight instructor rating; or
(amended 2006/12/14)

(b) have experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, of which:
(amended 2006/12/14)

(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23)

(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23)

- though CaptDukeNukem may have just solved that problem for me!

Do you already have 100 PIC on FW? If yes, you are good to go, but unless you instruct privately, I don't know if any flight school will hire you only for instrument instructing without actually having an instructor rating.

Good point! I did Moose Jaw phase 2, and their sims are not TC certified either, so short of contacting all my old instructors to find out if they by chance had instructor tickets, probably no moose jaw credits to be used.

The 20hrs of Grob dual on Phase 1, however... Good call! But this leads to another question. Are flight schools likely to endorse a candidate for CPL flight test if they haven't conducted all or most of the instruction? Can they sign off those credits in the PTR?

Count ALL your dual hrs in the military on FW and claim them against the 35 dual required (Grob, Harvard). Don't overspend on useless dual if you don't have to, as long as you get checked out on the AC you are going to build your PIC on and you are comfortable. Also count all your IFR hrs on the Harvard and XC on the nav phase.

From there it's the standard helo to FW conversion credits, nothing special credited for DND. Mostly I'm just going to have to do the 65hrs (30 solo, 35 dual), with a few credits towards instrument and night from my CPL(H). Overall it shouldn't be too onerous.

The KF instructors in Southport are civilian qualified operating under a civilian OC. So any hours you did on the Grob count toward this requirement. So all of your Phase 1 training, as well as Phase 2 if you did it on the Grob. I'm not sure how that holds up if you did Phase 2 in Moose Jaw, but if any of your instructors there happened to hold civi instructor ratings, hours with them would likely count as well.

ALL hours count, including any military aircraft, at least for FW. However, you only get .5 PIC on the grob and 6-7 PIC on the harvard as long as you didn't have to supersolo anything due to WX.

[Risenskyimmigration]

It's great to hear about your career journey and your plans for the future. Your helicopter experience is definitely valuable, especially with your impressive number of PIC hours. When it comes to how regionals count helicopter time, it can vary. Some airlines may consider it equivalent to fixed-wing time, especially for multi-engine turbine hours, but others might see it as less relevant.

Given your situation, aiming for the CPL(A) and Group 1 IFR ratings sounds like a solid plan. It'll give you a good foundation in fixed-wing flying, and your helicopter background will likely be seen as a bonus, showcasing your overall aviation skills and experience. As you mentioned, things can change in the industry, so keeping an eye on trends and requirements as you approach your pension could help tailor your approach.

If you're looking for a more immediate boost in fixed-wing hours, getting an instructor rating could be a good move. It not only builds your hours but also demonstrates your ability to teach and communicate in the cockpit, which is a valuable skill for any pilot.

Overall, your application would likely be competitive, especially with your diverse background. It might be worth reaching out to regional airlines directly to get a sense of how they view helicopter time in their hiring process.

[careerpilot?]

Thanks to everyone who contributed! Thankfully I kept all of my prog cards from Moose Jaw, every flight from every phase, and each one lays out what was covered and how I performed on the flight. It’s basically like having my PTR in hand for 75.0 dual and 6.3 PIC in a high performance turbine. So if there is any chance they will credit those dual hours, I have the documentation for it all.

I’ve already sat down with one flight school, didn’t get a lot of answers other than being placed on the wait list to start training. I’ll sniff around a few others. In the end I don’t want to spend hours of dual flying the manoeuvres if I’ve already reached the test standards just because the CARs list the required number. If I genuinely need the training I’m happy to do it, but hopefully I can get some credits if I’m where I need to be and just need the right number to put in the application.

[Big Pistons Forever]

They're not going to transition you on Harvards in MJ. That's usually for new fixed pilots

I know of several Seaking guys that did that. Bottom line the RCAF is desperate and in the CAF you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate. However I believe COMHOMECOM has vetoed this option based on an earlier post.

Not sure negotiating is optional lol. Imagine telling a Sargeant what you want.

But seriously, hubby was with the F18 as was his dad, helis (short time) and the Hercs. But mostly F18. Unless the CAF has changed drastically in the last 7yrs after he got out, pretty sure you can't.

But times change. Did you spend time in the military Big Pistons?

Sea Kings are a bit diff. They've been retired at least 6 yrs more or less (had to double check!). Were these recent guys?

Also missed the Veto post.

How's FI going??! Still doing it?

Career manglers know your retirement gates so if you are close to one your definitely have some leverage. However as previously noted that won't work for the OP. Yes I did 37.5 years in the CAF with a mixture of Class A, B and C Reservice service. The SeaKings guys I knew of all went to Moose Jaw on the Harvard 2 when it was still in service.

[careerpilot?]

There's been some great advice in this thread - thanks to all who've replied.

As I get further into my career planning (now looking at about 1.5yrs until retirement), I'm getting worried about the ATPL PIC minimums. While I probably could go direct right seat into a 705, I don't want to get stuck at terminal FO.

I find myself in a bit of a grey space: I have over 1000hrs of PIC in helicopter multi-engine, multi-crew, 200 of which occurred leading formations of 2-3 aircraft over Baghdad, and the rest making tough weather and airmanship decisions in challenging field conditions. Yet, TC wants me to have 250hrs PIC in a C172 before I can apply for ATPL... I'm going to assume no options for PICUS, though I know that may help top off the final bits if needed.

I'm concerned that any operator that will hire me as PIC with just a CPL will see the obvious: that I'm only going to stick around long enough to get ATPL PIC mins, then I'll be gone. So getting those entry level jobs may be tough.

Stepping up to 703/704, MEDEVAC seems the obvious choice, but most of them require ATPL for direct entry Captain.

So I'm left with the following options, as I see it:

1. Buy 100hrs of block time on a 152/172. Aside from the obvious cost, this just feels insulting given I've already gained a ton of experience making hard decisions in some of the most challenging conditions possible. I'd rather actually gain some valuable experience out of these hours...
2. My first summer, take a seasonal job firefighting, etc. Though hiring minimums for these jobs are pretty high as well.
3. Get on as an FO of a 703 MEDEVAC. If I do a year as FO, is it possible to upgrade to CA without the ATPL? Is the ATPL only required for DEC? I wouldn't mind doing a few years here if it meant I could get ATPL and hours to then go DEC at an airline. This would probably give me valuable experience that would ease the transition into 705.

My preferred COA would be 3 - but can anyone advise if it's realistic? Are 703 ops going to allow an upgrade to CA without an ATPL? One 7000hr King Air training captain aside (LOL), is DEC to a 705 operator going to be realistic after a few years PIC on MEDEVAC?

PS: I should add that I am familiar with CARS requirements for ATPL to be PIC of aircraft where the minimum flight crew document requires 2 crew, and the requirements for 2 pilots under IFR. I guess what I don’t understand from reading CARS alone is how this is applied in the real world when aircraft are type certified single pilot (as I believe the BE 200 is) but flown 2 pilot to comply with CARS IFR rules. I have seen king air direct entry captain job postings not requiring ATPL, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t just a typo…. Looking for real world application of the CARS on this one.

[Me262]

Welcome to Transport Canada logic. Without those valuable 150hrs in a 172 bombing around, you are not worthy of an ATPL. Those hours will make all the difference!
Meanwhile the military upgrades you from right to left seat with 5 PIC hrs and EASA allows all hrs of PICUS to get your ATPL (once you get your 100hrs for CPL, the remaining can all the PICUS on the aircraft you will upgrade, just like the military).

King Airs or BE1900 can give you the opportunity to go from right seat to left seat with only CPL, since they are not restricted to ATPL due to the number of passengers. So yes that's one option. You can also try your luck with pipelines operators. Or shell out thousands of $$$ to get the might 172 PIC experience doing circuits in a 25km radius to claim your XC as well that Transport feels is necessary for you to be worthy of ATPL.

[careerpilot?]

Welcome to Transport Canada logic. Without those valuable 150hrs in a 172 bombing around, you are not worthy of an ATPL. Those hours will make all the difference!
Meanwhile the military upgrades you from right to left seat with 5 PIC hrs and EASA allows all hrs of PICUS to get your ATPL (once you get your 100hrs for CPL, the remaining can all the PICUS on the aircraft you will upgrade, just like the military).

King Airs or BE1900 can give you the opportunity to go from right seat to left seat with only CPL, since they are not restricted to ATPL due to the number of passengers. So yes that's one option. You can also try your luck with pipelines operators. Or shell out thousands of $$$ to get the might 172 PIC experience doing circuits in a 25km radius to claim your XC as well that Transport feels is necessary for you to be worthy of ATPL.

Haha, yeah, thx. That's pretty much what I figured.

I'm leaning towards going the 703 route. Sticking at a 703 for a few years, first as an FO then as an AC, would get me my ATPL mins while allowing me to have some longevity with a company (always makes it easier to be hired when you telegraph that you'll be staying for awhile). Following that 703 time, ATPL and a couple thousand hours in hand, perhaps I'd be able to skip a regional entirely and apply to a mainline for an FO slot?

[SamuelTheKitty]

There's been some great advice in this thread - thanks to all who've replied.

As I get further into my career planning (now looking at about 1.5yrs until retirement), I'm getting worried about the ATPL PIC minimums. While I probably could go direct right seat into a 705, I don't want to get stuck at terminal FO.

I find myself in a bit of a grey space: I have over 1000hrs of PIC in helicopter multi-engine, multi-crew, 200 of which occurred leading formations of 2-3 aircraft over Baghdad, and the rest making tough weather and airmanship decisions in challenging field conditions. Yet, TC wants me to have 250hrs PIC in a C172 before I can apply for ATPL... I'm going to assume no options for PICUS, though I know that may help top off the final bits if needed.

I'm concerned that any operator that will hire me as PIC with just a CPL will see the obvious: that I'm only going to stick around long enough to get ATPL PIC mins, then I'll be gone. So getting those entry level jobs may be tough.

Stepping up to 703/704, MEDEVAC seems the obvious choice, but most of them require ATPL for direct entry Captain.

So I'm left with the following options, as I see it:

1. Buy 100hrs of block time on a 152/172. Aside from the obvious cost, this just feels insulting given I've already gained a ton of experience making hard decisions in some of the most challenging conditions possible. I'd rather actually gain some valuable experience out of these hours...
2. My first summer, take a seasonal job firefighting, etc. Though hiring minimums for these jobs are pretty high as well.
3. Get on as an FO of a 703 MEDEVAC. If I do a year as FO, is it possible to upgrade to CA without the ATPL? Is the ATPL only required for DEC? I wouldn't mind doing a few years here if it meant I could get ATPL and hours to then go DEC at an airline. This would probably give me valuable experience that would ease the transition into 705.

My preferred COA would be 3 - but can anyone advise if it's realistic? Are 703 ops going to allow an upgrade to CA without an ATPL? One 7000hr King Air training captain aside (LOL), is DEC to a 705 operator going to be realistic after a few years PIC on MEDEVAC?

PS: I should add that I am familiar with CARS requirements for ATPL to be PIC of aircraft where the minimum flight crew document requires 2 crew, and the requirements for 2 pilots under IFR. I guess what I don’t understand from reading CARS alone is how this is applied in the real world when aircraft are type certified single pilot (as I believe the BE 200 is) but flown 2 pilot to comply with CARS IFR rules. I have seen king air direct entry captain job postings not requiring ATPL, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t just a typo…. Looking for real world application of the CARS on this one.

Have you considered using the VA Education and Training Benefit to complete the required FW time at an appropriately accredited flight school? I know of at least one CH146 colleague who is currently building time toward his ATP AMEL in NC at a Part 141 school. Prior to that, he was getting his time building subsidized somewhere out east (NB or NS - can't remember). Given this type of training is working toward a license/certification, my understanding is that the bar to have this subsidized by that program is pretty low.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Good morning all,

I haven't posted on or visited these forums in ages - Some years ago I posted as I was considering a career change from Army to commercial pilot. Thankfully my luck was good, and I was successful in transferring to the RCAF as a pilot. I currently fly helicopters (CH146, or B412 in civilian terms).

I'm approaching my 25 year pension (2.5 years to go), and am starting to look towards the next bound. What I would really like to do is fly fixed wing airline.

So my main question: How relevant will helicopter hours (multi engine turbine) be towards hiring requirements for Encore / Jazz?

For some background, by hiring time I will have over 2000hrs of Multi crew, multi engine turbine helicopter (approx 1500 PIC).

I already have my CPL(H) and PPL(A) with multi rating (just over 200hrs FW TT now), and will have Group 4 IFR once I write the INRAT.

My plan is to then do what conversion training is necessary to acquire CPL(A) and Group 1 IFR, using as many credits from DND and my previous FW as possible. Once I have these ratings, I would expect to be around 2500hrs total time, but low fixed wing - probably in the vicinity of 300hrs, 100 PIC.

Using Encore as an example (I'd like to be Calgary based if able), I would technically meet the 750TT, 100 FW PIC requirements, assuming helo time would be counted, even if at half time.

Does anyone have any insight into how the regionals would count the helo time? Is it worth full time, half time, nothing? Understanding the industry is very fluid and things will change in 2.5 years, if you were looking at this today, would this be a competitive application? Or should I be looking towards an instructor rating, or smaller goals for a few years, to build up more FW time?


Thanks all in advance, clear skies!

Heard of a heli guy with military time hired at porter. Is that you. If so, congrats.

[Me262]

Good morning all,

I haven't posted on or visited these forums in ages - Some years ago I posted as I was considering a career change from Army to commercial pilot. Thankfully my luck was good, and I was successful in transferring to the RCAF as a pilot. I currently fly helicopters (CH146, or B412 in civilian terms).

I'm approaching my 25 year pension (2.5 years to go), and am starting to look towards the next bound. What I would really like to do is fly fixed wing airline.

So my main question: How relevant will helicopter hours (multi engine turbine) be towards hiring requirements for Encore / Jazz?

For some background, by hiring time I will have over 2000hrs of Multi crew, multi engine turbine helicopter (approx 1500 PIC).

I already have my CPL(H) and PPL(A) with multi rating (just over 200hrs FW TT now), and will have Group 4 IFR once I write the INRAT.

My plan is to then do what conversion training is necessary to acquire CPL(A) and Group 1 IFR, using as many credits from DND and my previous FW as possible. Once I have these ratings, I would expect to be around 2500hrs total time, but low fixed wing - probably in the vicinity of 300hrs, 100 PIC.

Using Encore as an example (I'd like to be Calgary based if able), I would technically meet the 750TT, 100 FW PIC requirements, assuming helo time would be counted, even if at half time.

Does anyone have any insight into how the regionals would count the helo time? Is it worth full time, half time, nothing? Understanding the industry is very fluid and things will change in 2.5 years, if you were looking at this today, would this be a competitive application? Or should I be looking towards an instructor rating, or smaller goals for a few years, to build up more FW time?


Thanks all in advance, clear skies!

Heard of a heli guy with military time hired at porter. Is that you. If so, congrats.

Why would he give up his pension by not waiting another 2.5 years? It's not him

[careerpilot?]

Good morning all,

I haven't posted on or visited these forums in ages - Some years ago I posted as I was considering a career change from Army to commercial pilot. Thankfully my luck was good, and I was successful in transferring to the RCAF as a pilot. I currently fly helicopters (CH146, or B412 in civilian terms).

I'm approaching my 25 year pension (2.5 years to go), and am starting to look towards the next bound. What I would really like to do is fly fixed wing airline.

So my main question: How relevant will helicopter hours (multi engine turbine) be towards hiring requirements for Encore / Jazz?

For some background, by hiring time I will have over 2000hrs of Multi crew, multi engine turbine helicopter (approx 1500 PIC).

I already have my CPL(H) and PPL(A) with multi rating (just over 200hrs FW TT now), and will have Group 4 IFR once I write the INRAT.

My plan is to then do what conversion training is necessary to acquire CPL(A) and Group 1 IFR, using as many credits from DND and my previous FW as possible. Once I have these ratings, I would expect to be around 2500hrs total time, but low fixed wing - probably in the vicinity of 300hrs, 100 PIC.

Using Encore as an example (I'd like to be Calgary based if able), I would technically meet the 750TT, 100 FW PIC requirements, assuming helo time would be counted, even if at half time.

Does anyone have any insight into how the regionals would count the helo time? Is it worth full time, half time, nothing? Understanding the industry is very fluid and things will change in 2.5 years, if you were looking at this today, would this be a competitive application? Or should I be looking towards an instructor rating, or smaller goals for a few years, to build up more FW time?


Thanks all in advance, clear skies!

Heard of a heli guy with military time hired at porter. Is that you. If so, congrats.

Ha thanks, but ME262 is right, still 19 months to pension. I do know the guy you are talking about though.

Have you considered using the VA Education and Training Benefit to complete the required FW time at an appropriately accredited flight school? I know of at least one CH146 colleague who is currently building time toward his ATP AMEL in NC at a Part 141 school. Prior to that, he was getting his time building subsidized somewhere out east (NB or NS - can't remember). Given this type of training is working toward a license/certification, my understanding is that the bar to have this subsidized by that program is pretty low.

The problem with the VA program is you need to be completely out to access it, and it doesn’t provide anything to pay the bills. I’m hesitant to get completely out until I have all my ratings and am employable, I’d hate to get out without some kind of job offer.

Ultimately the VA benefit briefs well and looks good on paper but isn’t all that accessible, since it leaves members unable to pay the bills while going to subsidized school. It really should be allowed to use it in your last year or two of working, to allow part time schooling and proper qualifications before release to ensure a seamless transition. But then they might actually have to pay it out because people would actually use it….

[CaptDukeNukem]

Good morning all,

I haven't posted on or visited these forums in ages - Some years ago I posted as I was considering a career change from Army to commercial pilot. Thankfully my luck was good, and I was successful in transferring to the RCAF as a pilot. I currently fly helicopters (CH146, or B412 in civilian terms).

I'm approaching my 25 year pension (2.5 years to go), and am starting to look towards the next bound. What I would really like to do is fly fixed wing airline.

So my main question: How relevant will helicopter hours (multi engine turbine) be towards hiring requirements for Encore / Jazz?

For some background, by hiring time I will have over 2000hrs of Multi crew, multi engine turbine helicopter (approx 1500 PIC).

I already have my CPL(H) and PPL(A) with multi rating (just over 200hrs FW TT now), and will have Group 4 IFR once I write the INRAT.

My plan is to then do what conversion training is necessary to acquire CPL(A) and Group 1 IFR, using as many credits from DND and my previous FW as possible. Once I have these ratings, I would expect to be around 2500hrs total time, but low fixed wing - probably in the vicinity of 300hrs, 100 PIC.

Using Encore as an example (I'd like to be Calgary based if able), I would technically meet the 750TT, 100 FW PIC requirements, assuming helo time would be counted, even if at half time.

Does anyone have any insight into how the regionals would count the helo time? Is it worth full time, half time, nothing? Understanding the industry is very fluid and things will change in 2.5 years, if you were looking at this today, would this be a competitive application? Or should I be looking towards an instructor rating, or smaller goals for a few years, to build up more FW time?


Thanks all in advance, clear skies!

Heard of a heli guy with military time hired at porter. Is that you. If so, congrats.

Ha thanks, but ME262 is right, still 19 months to pension. I do know the guy you are talking about though.

Have you considered using the VA Education and Training Benefit to complete the required FW time at an appropriately accredited flight school? I know of at least one CH146 colleague who is currently building time toward his ATP AMEL in NC at a Part 141 school. Prior to that, he was getting his time building subsidized somewhere out east (NB or NS - can't remember). Given this type of training is working toward a license/certification, my understanding is that the bar to have this subsidized by that program is pretty low.

The problem with the VA program is you need to be completely out to access it, and it doesn’t provide anything to pay the bills. I’m hesitant to get completely out until I have all my ratings and am employable, I’d hate to get out without some kind of job offer.

Ultimately the VA benefit briefs well and looks good on paper but isn’t all that accessible, since it leaves members unable to pay the bills while going to subsidized school. It really should be allowed to use it in your last year or two of working, to allow part time schooling and proper qualifications before release to ensure a seamless transition. But then they might actually have to pay it out because people would actually use it….

Makes sense. I missed the part where you had 2 years or less to go for the pension. But it can be done, apparently so best of luck!

[careerpilot?]

Makes sense. I missed the part where you had 2 years or less to go for the pension. But it can be done, apparently so best of luck!

Yeah, and that guy has about the same level of experience as I do, so it’s promising. I just need to figure out how I want to handle the ATPL PIC hours first!