Prospects for a new hire in 2025

[acornot]

Hello,

Last year I declined to join AC, however I start to realize that I need variety in my career. I have a very comfortable job, making 250k a year now, flying 12-13 days a month, but I am getting very bored and don't want to fly this aircraft type for the rest of my life. I feel like now is the right time for me to join AC, do my time and hopefully at some point get a 787 FO position and enjoy the next 25 years. Financially I am all set therefore the pay cut is fine.

I am very aware that declining the job last year, I missed out on hundreds of seniority numbers and I am fine with that.

I am wondering what are the hiring plans for next year, how many pilots AC intends to hire? Upgrade times must have doubled now I guess with all the hiring that has been going on? Last year we were talking about 2 years to upgrade.

Thanks.

[Flyboy736]

Hello,

Last year I declined to join AC, however I start to realize that I need variety in my career. I have a very comfortable job, making 250k a year now, flying 12-13 days a month, but I am getting very bored and don't want to fly this aircraft type for the rest of my life. I feel like now is the right time for me to join AC, do my time and hopefully at some point get a 787 FO position and enjoy the next 25 years. Financially I am all set therefore the pay cut is fine.

I am very aware that declining the job last year, I missed out on hundreds of seniority numbers and I am fine with that.

I am wondering what are the hiring plans for next year, how many pilots AC intends to hire? Upgrade times must have doubled now I guess with all the hiring that has been going on? Last year we were talking about 2 years to upgrade.

Thanks.

Why not be a career 787RP? If you don't need the money than I don't see why you want to slug it out for 15 years to get halfway up the 787FO list

[sportingrifle]

I hate to tell you this, but those hundreds of seniority numbers could be worth millions of dollars in earnings and pension. AC will hire for the next 2-3 years although not nearly as aggressively as in previous years, and are then projecting very little hiring for the following 4-5 years. (Assuming status quo economic and geo-political factors.) So getting hired in a year or two means many years on reserve at a junior base in a junior airplane. And many more years delay for an upgrade.

Depending on your age, if your $250k/year job is a long term career job I would re-think leaving at this point. YMMV.

[E2M]

Create a business, go travel, see the world, retire sooner. Ac or DC..

my 2 cents

[khedrei]

Hello,

Last year I declined to join AC, however I start to realize that I need variety in my career. I have a very comfortable job, making 250k a year now, flying 12-13 days a month, but I am getting very bored and don't want to fly this aircraft type for the rest of my life. I feel like now is the right time for me to join AC, do my time and hopefully at some point get a 787 FO position and enjoy the next 25 years. Financially I am all set therefore the pay cut is fine.

I am very aware that declining the job last year, I missed out on hundreds of seniority numbers and I am fine with that.

I am wondering what are the hiring plans for next year, how many pilots AC intends to hire? Upgrade times must have doubled now I guess with all the hiring that has been going on? Last year we were talking about 2 years to upgrade.

Thanks.

Seems like a very wierd idea to me to leave a job making 250k working 12 days a month to go to a job working 18, be on reserve and make 78k. Because you're bored? Ok, you don't need the money, but you still have to work more and be on call.

As previous poster said, go start a business. Go be an instructor and work 9-5 m-f if you don't need money. Not sure why you think flying 14 hrs to the middle east OVERNIGHT, trying to sleep for 6 hours and then fighting to stay awake for the other 8 would be "less boring".

To each thier own. If I had your money (provided you enjoy flying still) I'd go buy a nice light twin and travel all over the continent. That won't be boring.

[TheStig]

Engine issues on the A220, the near collapse of freighter flying, Pilot contract negotiations, and uncertainty surrounding Boeing's ability to delivery aircraft has lead to a few flat equipment bids in 2024. Vacant positions have subsequently dwindled from 800+ to 300ish since the spring.

Air Canada has planned fleet growth of 21 aircraft (787-9, 737M, 220, 321XLR) in 2025. Beyond that it has firm orders for 18 A220's, 28 A321XLR's and 18 787-10's. The 18 rouge 319's will be retired at some point and some older A320's or A330's could be retired in the event of an economic downtown but at this time the airline is returning 2 previously retired 767's to the passenger fleet and seems desperate to find capacity to meet demand.

As you noted, getting hired earlier is always better than later and you will never sit at the top of the seniority list but there shouldn't be any slow down in hiring and movement at AC for the next few years.

[tango308]

Strictly speaking from a seniority point-of-view; YES, now is a good time to join AC (if you can afford the drop in income).

AC is expecting 90 new fins to be delivered in the next 5 years (a good mix of 220s, XLRs, MAX. and 787-10). This means probably between 1500-2000 new pilots required. The new contract will also increase the number of pilots required when things like the new vacation credit and ADG takes effect. The training dept will have it's hands full for the foreseeable future. As of the latest bid upgrades times are still low with the most junior captain (YZ 220) at the 2 year mark.

[VFS]

The biggest factor would be your age. How long do you have left. If you’re older than you probably don’t have enough runway left to make up the hit you’re going to take going from your current 250k job back to year 1 at AC.
But if you still have another 20 years of flying to go, you’d likely be able to bring the overall income closer together over the course of the next 20 or so years.
Now if your current job is with a 703/704/604 operator offering their typical 2-5% RRSP matching program. The retirement package you’d earn at AC would likely blow that out of the water. Even if the upgrades at AC push much longer than they have been in recent years, of you have enough flying years left it would still work out much better for you there in the long run.

[digits_]

Go work part time at your current job and enjoy life.

[30westpirate]

If you can afford to live in one of the bases, bid widebody FO and stay on reserve. Money is decent after year 3 and you rarely get called out to work. I’ve averaged 8 days of work being on reserve and still guaranteed the same pay minus 2 hours as a block holder. And most reserve assignments have been 24-36 hours prior, mostly Europe and Asia layover.

[MaxAuto]

If you don't want to be bored, fly a narrow body. Widebody fly it extremely boring.

[eurotrash]

If you don't want to be bored, fly a narrow body. Widebody fly it extremely boring.

Lol...you have obviously never flown overseas or a 4man crew.

It's snoozing for bucks...getting paid to sleep

Take that over sitting there on a "productive turn" ie stuck in the seat for 10 hrs

[Hotoffthepress]

I will be applying for Air Canada come late 2025/early 2026.

I understand the financial impact for the first couple years, it will be a hit. Long term I think the prospects remain positive with the retirement package.

Seems at AC that Command is around the 2YR mark, with the new contract it may go much more senior?

For my situation, I’m with Team Green based in HKG.
Done both NB and WB flying.

Which fleet has the least number of Red Eyes?

[sportingrifle]

With that timing, you are probably looking at 8-10 years for an upgrade. AC is planning on very little hiring 2028-2032. You are timing the very very end of the largest hiring wave in the history of the airline.

[DanWEC]

With the new pay scales, does there happen to be anyone freshly hired in their 40's that would be willing to share their earnings simulator? Can PM if you'd rather.

I know it uses a min upgrade, chasing metal scenario, but I'm curious what sort of pension you can end up with if you can give 20 YOS.

[FNGYYZ]

With the new pay scales, does there happen to be anyone freshly hired in their 40's that would be willing to share their earnings simulator? Can PM if you'd rather.

I know it uses a min upgrade, chasing metal scenario, but I'm curious what sort of pension you can end up with if you can give 20 YOS.

Rough numbers...probably low 100ks

In today money.

[Blueontop]

With the new pay scales, does there happen to be anyone freshly hired in their 40's that would be willing to share their earnings simulator? Can PM if you'd rather.

I know it uses a min upgrade, chasing metal scenario, but I'm curious what sort of pension you can end up with if you can give 20 YOS.

Rough numbers...probably low 100ks

In today money.

I would argue that is a very inaccurate as it showing a YYZ based FO eligible to upgrade on the 220 earliest 2030 when currently it’s around a 2 year mark. But always better to err on the conservative side I suppose.

[rudder]

With the new pay scales, does there happen to be anyone freshly hired in their 40's that would be willing to share their earnings simulator? Can PM if you'd rather.

I know it uses a min upgrade, chasing metal scenario, but I'm curious what sort of pension you can end up with if you can give 20 YOS.

Rough numbers...probably low 100ks

In today money.

I would argue that is a very inaccurate as it showing a YYZ based FO eligible to upgrade on the 220 earliest 2030 when currently it’s around a 2 year mark. But always better to err on the conservative side I suppose.

In the CWIPP plan, the answer is purely formulaic. It is a specified percentage earned benefit per annum based on THAT YEARS EARNINGS. So, a different calculation than a traditional DB plan (i.e. FAE = best 5 years).

The variable therefore is simply earnings based on equipment/status progression. One could reasonably estimate COLA increases beyond the term of the current CBA to come up with an estimate. For AC pilots, my understanding is that there is a pension benefit estimator on the MEC website where the input is equipment/status/year.

If you look at the current CWIPP benefit formula (1.40/1.75/1.90%) it isn’t that difficult to come up with a reasonable estimate on the back of a napkin. Here is a very rough example: average annual earnings of 275k for 20 years x 0.190 = $104500. It would likely be marginally less due to the reduced entitlement in years 1-5 (1.40/1.75) and associated low earnings years 1-4. There is no indexation.

Get to the $275k pay level sooner (year 3) and it would significantly increase the earned benefit over the 20 year time frame.

[Protonpilot]

If you look at the current CWIPP benefit formula (1.40/1.75/1.90%) it isn’t that difficult to come up with a reasonable estimate on the back of a napkin. Here is a very rough example: average annual earnings of 275k for 20 years x 0.190 = $104500. It would likely be marginally less due to the reduced entitlement in years 1-5 (1.40/1.75) and associated low earnings years 1-4. There is no indexation.

There is indexation. It's conditional indexation, just like the new WestJet pilots' plan, and lots of other plans: Ontario teachers, healthcare workers, firefighters and policemen, etc... They all label it differently, but usually some kind of funding level trigger that pays an indexation increase based on CPI from the previous year.

The estimator that the MEC put up a few months ago now includes a way to account for these indexation increases during your working career, but they apply to retired pilots as well. The estimator doesn't project beyond your retirement date.

Our retired and active members in CWIPP are getting a 3 percent increase on January 1, 2025 which will probably be above inflation for the 2024 calendar year. They also mentioned at the TA roadshow that our increases over the last six years have averaged 3% which is really close to full CPI protection.

[Hotoffthepress]

With that timing, you are probably looking at 8-10 years for an upgrade. AC is planning on very little hiring 2028-2032. You are timing the very very end of the largest hiring wave in the history of the airline.

It is what it is then. I'll be in it for the long run. I'm 32YR, still got another +30YR left till retirement.

[Canadianpilot2024]

Don’t come to AC blind thinking it’s a well run and operated machine.

Do your hw and ask around, most of the senior guys here have been abused since 2001.

Being stuck at the bottom of the reserve list is not somewhere you want to be either

[canadianfly]

Hello,

Last year I declined to join AC, however I start to realize that I need variety in my career. I have a very comfortable job, making 250k a year now, flying 12-13 days a month, but I am getting very bored and don't want to fly this aircraft type for the rest of my life. I feel like now is the right time for me to join AC, do my time and hopefully at some point get a 787 FO position and enjoy the next 25 years. Financially I am all set therefore the pay cut is fine.

I am very aware that declining the job last year, I missed out on hundreds of seniority numbers and I am fine with that.

I am wondering what are the hiring plans for next year, how many pilots AC intends to hire? Upgrade times must have doubled now I guess with all the hiring that has been going on? Last year we were talking about 2 years to upgrade.

Thanks.

Make that move and you'll regret it for the rest of your life.. I can see it from here...

[aeronauticaldisaster]

The good news is the complete lack of quality of life improvements in the World Class Contract will keep junior narrow body Capt positions...junior

Bad news is the lack of meaningful improvements in FO pay will push people for early upgrades. Unstacking means seniority doesn't mean much anyways so also push junior People to keep eating the shit sandwich albiet with more pay.

Other bad news is the pension is based on career earnings further pushing for junior upgrades.

I guess your best bet is pilots develop a thirst for seeing their families over the distinction of 4 bars and buying poor FOs Starbucks.

Good luck.