Dash FO to captain upgrade time

[Bryce55]

I have heard Porter does have a picus program, I’m just wondering what the average upgrade time has been to accomplish that?

Do you need to fulfill the captain requirements or are they different for position upgrades?

[Timetoflyagain]

I have heard Porter does have a picus program, I’m just wondering what the average upgrade time has been to accomplish that?

Do you need to fulfill the captain requirements or are they different for position upgrades?

Porter is hiring direct entry Captains on the Q…meaning if you’re a FO and have the requirements…go for it! With current and expected fleet growth on both the E and Q fleets it’ll be a logbook numbers game vs a seniority numbers game for a good long time.

[Bryce55]

yeah thanks I'm looking into getting FO at 1000 ish hours and working my way up.

[co-joe]

yeah thanks I'm looking into getting FO at 1000 ish hours and working my way up.

I'd bank on 3 years, and hope to be pleasantly surprised if you get on with 1000 TT. You may find you want to fly the right seat of the jet for a stint before then working up the left side of the pay scale, you never know. That said, the DEC hiring matrix for Porter is higher for the Q, than it is for the Jet so who knows?

[kenaanna]

Hey Bryce55! The average upgrade time for the PICUS program at Porter can vary, but many pilots report around 2-3 years. You typically need to meet the captain requirements for position upgrades, but it’s best to check with HR for specifics. Hope this helps!
rice purity test

[IcePharaoh]

Hi, what are the captain requirements for the Q400 at Porter?

[braaap Braap]

Management starts applying the pressure ~2000 total and 500 on type

[IcePharaoh]

Management starts applying the pressure ~2000 total and 500 on type

Thank you. What if it's an E2 FO upgrading to the left seat of the Q without the time on type?

[braaap Braap]

Management starts applying the pressure ~2000 total and 500 on type

Thank you. What if it's an E2 FO upgrading to the left seat of the Q without the time on type?

The idea is just starting to be played with. Havent heard of anyone doing it. Id imagine they’d want to see 500-1000 MPIC of a transport level turboprop.

[cdnavater]

Management starts applying the pressure ~2000 total and 500 on type

Thank you. What if it's an E2 FO upgrading to the left seat of the Q without the time on type?

The idea is just starting to be played with. Havent heard of anyone doing it. Id imagine they’d want to see 500-1000 MPIC of a transport level turboprop.

Isn’t E2 FO pay slightly higher or basically the same as Q captain?

[braaap Braap]

Thank you. What if it's an E2 FO upgrading to the left seat of the Q without the time on type?

The idea is just starting to be played with. Havent heard of anyone doing it. Id imagine they’d want to see 500-1000 MPIC of a transport level turboprop.

Isn’t E2 FO pay slightly higher or basically the same as Q captain?

No they adjusted it last february so that Q CA is a bit ahead of E2 FO after people decided to forgo the upgrade

[BaldChewbacca]

Dash captains make $1/hr more than an E2 fo. So it's essentially the same and personally I wouldn't take on the added work of a dash captain if I could make the same as an E2 fo. Keep in mind that there is no yos at Porter, so you could go for example yr3 fo making $115/hr to a yr1 captain making $112/hr. It just doesn't make sense

[cdnavater]

Dash captains make $1/hr more than an E2 fo. So it's essentially the same and personally I wouldn't take on the added work of a dash captain if I could make the same as an E2 fo. Keep in mind that there is no yos at Porter, so you could go for example yr3 fo making $115/hr to a yr1 captain making $112/hr. It just doesn't make sense

That’s basically what I thought, why would you bother for that!

[dontcallmeshirley]

Dash captains make $1/hr more than an E2 fo. So it's essentially the same and personally I wouldn't take on the added work of a dash captain if I could make the same as an E2 fo. Keep in mind that there is no yos at Porter, so you could go for example yr3 fo making $115/hr to a yr1 captain making $112/hr. It just doesn't make sense

That’s basically what I thought, why would you bother for that!

Your comment is disingenuous. Let's ignore the years in the Q captain seat counting toward your starting pay and look at the actual pay rates whether you go DEC Q or FO E2. The difference only goes up with the years in seat match.

Code: Select all

Year | Q400 DEC | E2 FO | Difference
------------------------------------
  1  |   $112   |  $85  |    $27
  2  |   $116   |  $100 |    $16
  3  |   $126   |  $115 |    $11
  4  |   $136   |  $125 |    $11
  5  |   $141   |  $135 |    $6

It only becomes $1 different after 5 years (step 6) with the company. At that point, you'll have an ALPA contract and the WaWCons are going to be different.

[cdnavater]

Dash captains make $1/hr more than an E2 fo. So it's essentially the same and personally I wouldn't take on the added work of a dash captain if I could make the same as an E2 fo. Keep in mind that there is no yos at Porter, so you could go for example yr3 fo making $115/hr to a yr1 captain making $112/hr. It just doesn't make sense

That’s basically what I thought, why would you bother for that!

Your comment is disingenuous. Let's ignore the years in the Q captain seat counting toward your starting pay and look at the actual pay rates whether you go DEC Q or FO E2. The difference only goes up with the years in seat match.

Code: Select all

Year | Q400 DEC | E2 FO | Difference
------------------------------------
  1  |   $112   |  $85  |    $27
  2  |   $116   |  $100 |    $16
  3  |   $126   |  $115 |    $11
  4  |   $136   |  $125 |    $11
  5  |   $141   |  $135 |    $6

It only becomes $1 different after 5 years (step 6) with the company. At that point, you'll have an ALPA contract and the WaWCons are going to be different.

I believe the question was going from E2 FO at Porter to Q captain? Porter does not give YOS when you go from right to left seat, you go back to step 1 in your new seat. So let’s say you’re year 3 E2 FO and go left seat Q, it appears you would go from 115 to 112. Someone
Who works there can feel free to correct me on YOS but that’s how I understand it.

[goingnowherefast]

Wow that's dumb. Why would anyone go e2 FO to q400 capt with those rules? Even a 2yr e2 FO upgrading, and going yr1 ca q400. The first year or two maybe, but compare e2 fo yr4 to q400 ca yr3. Why would anyone do that? More work, more responsibilities, less money. The q400 to e2 movement is heavily throttled, so you'll never go back either. Just stay in the right seat of the e2, make more money and patiently await the upgrade on type.

[dontcallmeshirley]

I believe the question was going from E2 FO at Porter to Q captain? Porter does not give YOS when you go from right to left seat, you go back to step 1 in your new seat. So let’s say you’re year 3 E2 FO and go left seat Q, it appears you would go from 115 to 112. Someone
Who works there can feel free to correct me on YOS but that’s how I understand it.

I must have misread it. In that scenario, it makes no sense unless you want the PIC time and the thrill of landing on the island.

[Grey_Wolf]

Wow that's dumb. Why would anyone go e2 FO to q400 capt with those rules? Even a 2yr e2 FO upgrading, and going yr1 ca q400. The first year or two maybe, but compare e2 fo yr4 to q400 ca yr3. Why would anyone do that? More work, more responsibilities, less money. The q400 to e2 movement is heavily throttled, so you'll never go back either. Just stay in the right seat of the e2, make more money and patiently await the upgrade on type.

The issue that most of these newer FO's will run into is not having any considerable PIC time. Their career progression (for low time folks), as laid out would be Q-FO, E2-FO, Q-Capt, E2-Capt. For those that have significant prior multi-pic time, they would be able to skip the Q-Captain portion.

With the matrix, below:

Entry Level Captain E195-E2:

- Minimum 4000 hours total time AND 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- AND, 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)

OR

- Minimum 4500 hours total time and one of the following:
- 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- 1000 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)
- 1000 hours total time transport category jet
- 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent), AND, 500
hours total time transport category jet.

IMHO, the E2 shouldn't be the FO's first ever Captain job.

[goingnowherefast]

Jazz has no problem doing it in CRJs and the 175. Air Canada does it too. Why is the 195-e2 any different?

If that's the expected career progression, then they have significant work to do to ensure pay and lifestyle also encourages that progression.

Why would a 3 yr e2 FO go DH8 capt to take a pay cut and work harder and have lower career earnings when they could go to AC?

[MD11]

IMHO, the E2 shouldn't be the FO's first ever Captain job.

If the pilot is skilled, hard working and responsible then why not? There are countless pilots at AC who's first upgrade is on an A220 or other narrowbody. The rest of the world start F/O's off on narrowbodies at 250 hrs and as they progress to senior F/O's an eventual upgrade on type occurs. On the other hand, I've flown with Captains who had more "experience" but questionable decision making and personalities which make you really involved in the flight deck for everyone's safety. It's a great time to be a young pilot and good training/attitude will provide a quality Captain candidate IMO.

[8895]

Wow that's dumb. Why would anyone go e2 FO to q400 capt with those rules? Even a 2yr e2 FO upgrading, and going yr1 ca q400. The first year or two maybe, but compare e2 fo yr4 to q400 ca yr3. Why would anyone do that? More work, more responsibilities, less money. The q400 to e2 movement is heavily throttled, so you'll never go back either. Just stay in the right seat of the e2, make more money and patiently await the upgrade on type.

The issue that most of these newer FO's will run into is not having any considerable PIC time. Their career progression (for low time folks), as laid out would be Q-FO, E2-FO, Q-Capt, E2-Capt. For those that have significant prior multi-pic time, they would be able to skip the Q-Captain portion.

With the matrix, below:

Entry Level Captain E195-E2:

- Minimum 4000 hours total time AND 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- AND, 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)

OR

- Minimum 4500 hours total time and one of the following:
- 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- 1000 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)
- 1000 hours total time transport category jet
- 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent), AND, 500
hours total time transport category jet.

IMHO, the E2 shouldn't be the FO's first ever Captain job.

This is just fear mongering fanfic porn for Q management….. right?

[lowoleo22]

Wow that's dumb. Why would anyone go e2 FO to q400 capt with those rules? Even a 2yr e2 FO upgrading, and going yr1 ca q400. The first year or two maybe, but compare e2 fo yr4 to q400 ca yr3. Why would anyone do that? More work, more responsibilities, less money. The q400 to e2 movement is heavily throttled, so you'll never go back either. Just stay in the right seat of the e2, make more money and patiently await the upgrade on type.

The issue that most of these newer FO's will run into is not having any considerable PIC time. Their career progression (for low time folks), as laid out would be Q-FO, E2-FO, Q-Capt, E2-Capt. For those that have significant prior multi-pic time, they would be able to skip the Q-Captain portion.

With the matrix, below:

Entry Level Captain E195-E2:

- Minimum 4000 hours total time AND 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- AND, 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)

OR

- Minimum 4500 hours total time and one of the following:
- 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- 1000 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)
- 1000 hours total time transport category jet
- 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent), AND, 500
hours total time transport category jet.

IMHO, the E2 shouldn't be the FO's first ever Captain job.

This is just fear mongering fanfic porn for Q management….. right?

1000hrs PIC on a Porter Dash is all you need for left seat E2.

[8895]

The issue that most of these newer FO's will run into is not having any considerable PIC time. Their career progression (for low time folks), as laid out would be Q-FO, E2-FO, Q-Capt, E2-Capt. For those that have significant prior multi-pic time, they would be able to skip the Q-Captain portion.

With the matrix, below:

Entry Level Captain E195-E2:

- Minimum 4000 hours total time AND 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- AND, 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)

OR

- Minimum 4500 hours total time and one of the following:
- 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- 1000 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)
- 1000 hours total time transport category jet
- 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent), AND, 500
hours total time transport category jet.

IMHO, the E2 shouldn't be the FO's first ever Captain job.

This is just fear mongering fanfic porn for Q management….. right?

1000hrs PIC on a Porter Dash is all you need for left seat E2.

Sounds great when you leave the current flow rate out, doesn’t it

[braaap Braap]

The issue that most of these newer FO's will run into is not having any considerable PIC time. Their career progression (for low time folks), as laid out would be Q-FO, E2-FO, Q-Capt, E2-Capt. For those that have significant prior multi-pic time, they would be able to skip the Q-Captain portion.

With the matrix, below:

Entry Level Captain E195-E2:

- Minimum 4000 hours total time AND 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- AND, 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)

OR

- Minimum 4500 hours total time and one of the following:
- 500 hours PIC on type variant (E170/175/190/195, E1/E2)
- 1000 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent)
- 1000 hours total time transport category jet
- 500 hours PIC on either EFIS Transport Category Aircraft Heavy Turboprop OR jet over 44000 lbs MTOW (as per CAR 705 or equivalent), AND, 500
hours total time transport category jet.

IMHO, the E2 shouldn't be the FO's first ever Captain job.

This is just fear mongering fanfic porn for Q management….. right?

1000hrs PIC on a Porter Dash is all you need for left seat E2.

More like 1000 Pic on the dash, 3500 total …and then the other 150 people in front of you to trickle over at 3/class until they move to a vacancy bid system at the end of 2025. Hope there are still seats left!

[canadianfly]

Any words of YHU base for Porter ??