Main Landing Gear Door Pins

[pelmet]

I have not heard of gear door pins. I have heard of gear pins. Are these a separate set of pins that have to be checked on every Dash-8 walkaround?

C-GLQO, a Porter Airlines Dash 8-402, was conducting ferry flight PTR9813 from
Ottawa/Macdonald-Cartier Int'l Airport (CYOW), ON, to St. Thomas Municipal Airport (CYQS), ON.
After departure from CYOW, when the landing gear was selected up, the Main Landing Gear Door
lights remained illuminated. The crew coordinated with dispatch and maintenance, and elected to
continue the flight to CYQS, declaring PAN PAN as a precaution. The crew used the alternate gear
extension procedure before landing uneventfully at CYQS, and they were towed to the hangar. It
was discovered that the main landing gear door pins had not been removed before the flight.

....From TSB.

[planenuts]

Yes. There are door pins.

There are things in the wheel wells that maintenance needs to access. The doors are released using the cockpit overhead door release handle. If the pins are not in the doors and someone powers the aircraft - they can close in very short order. Crews are supposed to check that they are stored in the side of the main entrance door during walkaround. I don't know about Porters SOP's.

[blutomindpretzel]

There are gear pins, which are stored in the cockpit, and there are separate door pins that only maintenance uses. Maintenance left the pins in, and it's not something you check on a normal walk around.

[goingnowherefast]

I think you're confusing the gear pins and gear door pins.

Gear pins live in the plane.
Gear DOOR pins belong in the hangar.

I dunno where the door pins go in the Q400, but presumably they should have a big red "remove before flight" tag hanging off them, and be pretty obvious. Not obvious enough it seems.

When did Porter start going to St. Thomas? I'm guessing a maintenance flight?

[Eric Janson]

The correct procedure with pins of any kind is to make a tech log entry when they are installed.

Once the pins have been removed the entry can be cleared.

This way everyone is aware of the aircraft status. Such a simple procedure...

Sad to see this is still not the procedure at some operators.

The worst I've seen was the pins stowed in the correct location - only to discover a second set of pins installed during the walk around. No tech log entry. This happened to me twice. This was at a Flag Carrier.

[pelmet]

The correct procedure with pins of any kind is to make a tech log entry when they are installed.

Once the pins have been removed the entry can be cleared.

This way everyone is aware of the aircraft status. Such a simple procedure...

Sad to see this is still not the procedure at some operators.

The worst I've seen was the pins stowed in the correct location - only to discover a second set of pins installed during the walk around. No tech log entry. This happened to me twice. This was at a Flag Carrier.

Neither of the two carriers I have worked at had a journey log entry for gear pins. I assumed that this was industry standard to not make an entry. Does anybody here know of an airline where this is done.

If there is ever any out of the ordinary situation, just do a last minute check. Happened to me one time where maintenance had taken a pin to repair a missing flag. I happened to have to go into the nearby dispatch to get something and decided to just do a final check and found the pin returned to its original location.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

When did Porter start going to St. Thomas? I'm guessing a maintenance flight?

St. Thomas has a massive MRO there (Smart Aviation Maintenance Services) that specializes in DH8 and CRJ series aircraft. At any given time there are 8 to 10 Q-400's and RJ's there.

[airway]

The correct procedure with pins of any kind is to make a tech log entry when they are installed.

Once the pins have been removed the entry can be cleared.

This way everyone is aware of the aircraft status. Such a simple procedure...

Sad to see this is still not the procedure at some operators.

The worst I've seen was the pins stowed in the correct location - only to discover a second set of pins installed during the walk around. No tech log entry. This happened to me twice. This was at a Flag Carrier.

Neither of the two carriers I have worked at had a journey log entry for gear pins. I assumed that this was industry standard to not make an entry. Does anybody here know of an airline where this is done.

If there is ever any out of the ordinary situation, just do a last minute check. Happened to me one time where maintenance had taken a pin to repair a missing flag. I happened to have to go into the nearby dispatch to get something and decided to just do a final check and found the pin returned to its original location.

We don't enter anything in the JL at my company when gear pins or gear door pins are installed. If the gear pins are removed, they are stored in a specific spot in the aircraft. Occasionally, I have seen 2 sets of gear pins in that spot, so I know that just because there is a set of gear pins in that spot does not mean another set of gear pins are not installed. We don't store gear door pins in the aircraft. I have never seen the gear door pins for my aircraft installed, other than in the hangar during maintenance.



.

[Eric Janson]

Neither of the two carriers I have worked at had a journey log entry for gear pins. I assumed that this was industry standard to not make an entry. Does anybody here know of an airline where this is done.

It is standard procedure at my present company and it was a procedure at several of my previous Airlines.

Good topic to discuss on your next safety re-current.

[pelmet]

Neither of the two carriers I have worked at had a journey log entry for gear pins. I assumed that this was industry standard to not make an entry. Does anybody here know of an airline where this is done.

It is standard procedure at my present company and it was a procedure at several of my previous Airlines.

Good topic to discuss on your next safety re-current.

Would be curious to know what the major Canadian airlines are doing. I don't know for sure but I suspect that the maintenance release was not signed at my last major company until the gear pins were removed, which would be an equivalent level of safety, if the pilots were aware of this.

[planenuts]

All good ideas - but I have seen my fair share of pilots taking off even multiple legs with different crews with open items in the logbook. There is no fool proof system