A legacy airline in ULC Clothes

[eyebrow737]

https://nowtoronto.com/news/lets-make-t ... ry-on-fee/
Air Canada’s New Carry-On Policy

• Starting January 3, 2024, Air Canada will charge fees for carry-on bags ($35 for the first, $50 for the second) for Basic Fare passengers on North America and Sun routes.
• Ineligible carry-ons will incur a $65 fee. Personal items and mobility aids remain free.
• Seat selection will also have fees starting January 21, with complimentary assignments available only at check-in.
• The changes align with low-cost airline strategies but have sparked backlash online.

[noreasterYHZ]

ULCLC

Ultra Low Cost Legacy Carrier

In line with the pilot contract

[Jean-Pierre]

It is what Canadian voted for with their wallet. Flair did it so WestJet did it so Air Canada did it.

[fish4life]

United has had this for a while, it’s the tend worldwide and while the ulcc’s are having a harder time.

[goingnowherefast]

United has had this for a while, it’s the tend worldwide and while the ulcc’s are having a harder time.

US majors are offering a wide variety of fare classes that are keeping the LCCs on their toes. Spirit and JetBlue are facing this and the GTF issues. That's why they're in the news for not good financial reasons

[thepoors]

The AC product in North America vs international are basically 2 different operations. The WB flying is where the company makes its money and where they reinvest it. It's pretty good as a result.

As anyone who's flown on a NB recently knows: the experience is not a good one. The newer airplanes (220 & Max) make it less miserable, but overall it's criminal the prices being charged for the experience the customer receives for their money.

[JustaCanadian]

Why should those who don't travel with a bag subsidies those who do?

If you poll people about air travel I bet most people would say ticket price is the most important factor when choosing a flight. So sell the ticket for a lower price and build revenue streams as pay for use. Don't understand why people care. Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut, but you can pay to add it if you like. This is just the typical airline bitchfest about prices, while air travel inflation is below many other sectors.

We literally voted in a government who's plan was to make life unaffordable, they told us they will carbon tax us. Are people regarded? You are complaining life is to expensive yet you voted for a government who told you this is our plan?

[cjp]

The transition of travelers checking luggage to travelers cramming checked level clothing amounts into a carry on due to cost and lost baggage issues means a decreasing revenue stream due to the lack of checked bags. Airline got clever.

Et Voilà.

Charging for carry on.

Simple predatory oligopoly economics.

[Aerkavo]

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut, but you can pay to add it if you like. This is just the typical airline bitchfest about prices, while air travel inflation is below many other sectors.

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut but it does come with cream and sugar. This is the issue; carryon baggage has been part of the travel protocol for so long that it's now considered, well, part of the normal product. Sure, you can try to teach people that their carryon isn't a part of the ticket price but there will be blowback.

I used to go to a restaurant that would add 5 cents a pack for crackers for your soup and 5 cents a pack for ketchup. We're talking pennies but people would bitch and complain because "crackers and ketchup are supposed to be free".

[cjp]

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut, but you can pay to add it if you like. This is just the typical airline bitchfest about prices, while air travel inflation is below many other sectors.

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut but it does come with cream and sugar. This is the issue; carryon baggage has been part of the travel protocol for so long that it's now considered, well, part of the normal product. Sure, you can try to teach people that their carryon isn't a part of the ticket price but there will be blowback.

I used to go to a restaurant that would add 5 cents a pack for crackers for your soup and 5 cents a pack for ketchup. We're talking pennies but people would bitch and complain because "crackers and ketchup are supposed to be free".

I now want doughnuts as a snack on flights.

[rudder]

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut, but you can pay to add it if you like. This is just the typical airline bitchfest about prices, while air travel inflation is below many other sectors.

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut but it does come with cream and sugar. This is the issue; carryon baggage has been part of the travel protocol for so long that it's now considered, well, part of the normal product. Sure, you can try to teach people that their carryon isn't a part of the ticket price but there will be blowback.

I used to go to a restaurant that would add 5 cents a pack for crackers for your soup and 5 cents a pack for ketchup. We're talking pennies but people would bitch and complain because "crackers and ketchup are supposed to be free".

One could look at this one of two ways -

1. A fare includes a seat, the space on the floor in front of it, and a single space in the overhead bin above it. The fare may or may not include allowance for a checked bag in the cargo hold.

2. The fare includes just a seat. The floor in front of the seat may be purchased. A space in the overhead bin may be purchased. A space in the cargo hold may be purchased.

Option 2 is the revenue strategy for a ULCC operator.

Perhaps AC wants to simply be perceived as ‘fare matching’ a segment of the inventory against competitors that advertise for seat purchase only. Regardless, it is disappointing to see a legacy and flag carrier have to deconstruct a fare to this level. The industry has changed and not in a good way. Pan Am would roll over in its grave.

While Flair (and others) chase the Greyhound bus crowd, carriers like Porter will just look better and better.

[Stratopaused]

Pan Am would roll over in its grave.

But Pan Am is in its grave because it couldn't adapt to a changing market. If they had been more flexible, they might still be around.

[cdnavater]

It says for “basic fare”, correct me if I’m wrong but basic fare is the Flair fare and WJ has the same thing?
They board last, zone 9, no seat choice and pay for everything a la carte, except for the free beverage and light snack(pretzels) which Flair charges for but would be difficult to manage on a flight with mixed cabin fare classes.
People can do the math, when searching for flights on AC, it shows all fare classes and what’s included and what’s not, add it up and see what works for them. As long as it’s apparent, I don’t see what the problem is.

[30westpirate]

ULCC’s are struggling big time, the company that started the model Southwest is lagging behind legacy carriers in the US. Their inability to adapt along with Boeing delays, the stock is down big time.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Let's see if my memory serves me correctly:

In 1998 was the 3rd time I flew on an airplane. Before that, it was 1993 and flew BUD-PRG-YYZ on a CSA Tu-154/A310, respectively. That Tu-154 was absolutely amazing. The engines, sound... ... ah, let's get baack on topic.

So in 1998 I fly from Toronto to Frankfurt then onto Bucharest. I remember my parents paid $1200 CAD per person (round trip), for my sister and I to fly during the peak summer season. In 1999 I bought a ticket to Finland, on Finnair (YYZ-HEL) and back and I paid $850 round trip.

Now, adjusted for inflation, how much money would that be in today's cash? For reference I think a Big Mac Meal in 1999 was under $5.00 and my parents' house was around the $180K mark in SW Ontario. It seems to me that everything went up by at least 4X - 5X what it was in the mid 90s. Everything except airplane tickets.

For whatever odd reason, Canadians still think that $1500 to fly across the ocean is a lot. Well... Sure. Maybe. But that money is coming from somewhere...This insatiable demand for low fares has created this insantiy, where the airlines don't know how to make it happen. A pillow here, a checked bag there, a meal that I wouldn't feed to my cat, and so on.

I'm not defending the airlines. I just need to point out that the cost of things has gone up, but for whatever reason people still think it's okay to pay $49 to fly from London UK to Budapest... I will never again fly a low cost carrier. I've done it once in my life and I'm ashamed of myself (Ryannair)

[digits_]

Let's see if my memory serves me correctly:

In 1998 was the 3rd time I flew on an airplane. Before that, it was 1993 and flew BUD-PRG-YYZ on a CSA Tu-154/A310, respectively. That Tu-154 was absolutely amazing. The engines, sound... ... ah, let's get baack on topic.

So in 1998 I fly from Toronto to Frankfurt then onto Bucharest. I remember my parents paid $1200 CAD per person (round trip), for my sister and I to fly during the peak summer season. In 1999 I bought a ticket to Finland, on Finnair (YYZ-HEL) and back and I paid $850 round trip.

Now, adjusted for inflation, how much money would that be in today's cash? For reference I think a Big Mac Meal in 1999 was under $5.00 and my parents' house was around the $180K mark in SW Ontario. It seems to me that everything went up by at least 4X - 5X what it was in the mid 90s. Everything except airplane tickets.

For whatever odd reason, Canadians still think that $1500 to fly across the ocean is a lot. Well... Sure. Maybe. But that money is coming from somewhere...This insatiable demand for low fares has created this insantiy, where the airlines don't know how to make it happen. A pillow here, a checked bag there, a meal that I wouldn't feed to my cat, and so on.

I'm not defending the airlines. I just need to point out that the cost of things has gone up, but for whatever reason people still think it's okay to pay $49 to fly from London UK to Budapest... I will never again fly a low cost carrier. I've done it once in my life and I'm ashamed of myself (Ryannair)

I've heard similar explanations before, but is that really the root cause though? Or is it that airlines are trying to capture more market share by intentionally offering lower costs products so more people will fly? I don't think current passengers' complaints are the reason for this new price structure. It's the airlines going after new passengers with a 'look at how cheap we can make our flights!'.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I've heard similar explanations before, but is that really the root cause though? Or is it that airlines are trying to capture more market share by intentionally offering lower costs products so more people will fly? I don't think current passengers' complaints are the reason for this new price structure. It's the airlines going after new passengers with a 'look at how cheap we can make our flights!'.

Well of course, there is the problem with what I call "desceptive marketing". That seems to be prevalant in North America and its spilling over to Europe. It's like buying a car at a dealer. The car is $24,000 but then you have tax, delivery fee, this fee and that fee and before you know it, your car is $31,000. There should be a law where the final price is displayed. What you pay is what it's advertised.

Not something like this:


Then you end up with €39 airport check in fee, €27 advanced seat selection fee, €67 checked bag fee and so on...

[Me262]

Premium economy is what used to be economy 20 years ago. And it's actually a better value compared to what you got, for the same amount of money after inflation (currently about 2x of the price of an economy ticket on a WB). Unfortunately not many premium economy seats available on most flights, and they generally tend to get full fast.

As for prices not including final taxes/fees is a pet peeve of mine for North America (stores, online shopping, anything that is not petrol at the pump or, funnily enough, airline tickets). That and 4-way stops instead of roundabouts, FFS.

[digits_]

That and 4-way stops instead of roundabouts, FFS.

Ugh. You don't even need to do that! Just cut down 2 stop signs so there's only 2 stop signs tops per crossing.

Some genius recently created a 3 way stop crossing around here. I"m waiting for the first 2 way stop. I'm sure someone will invent one.

[JustaCanadian]

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut, but you can pay to add it if you like. This is just the typical airline bitchfest about prices, while air travel inflation is below many other sectors.

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut but it does come with cream and sugar. This is the issue; carryon baggage has been part of the travel protocol for so long that it's now considered, well, part of the normal product. Sure, you can try to teach people that their carryon isn't a part of the ticket price but there will be blowback.

I used to go to a restaurant that would add 5 cents a pack for crackers for your soup and 5 cents a pack for ketchup. We're talking pennies but people would bitch and complain because "crackers and ketchup are supposed to be free".

I would prefer that my coffee is 10 cents cheaper and those who want to pay for cream and sugar pay their share.

[digits_]

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut, but you can pay to add it if you like. This is just the typical airline bitchfest about prices, while air travel inflation is below many other sectors.

Your coffee doesn't come with a doughnut but it does come with cream and sugar. This is the issue; carryon baggage has been part of the travel protocol for so long that it's now considered, well, part of the normal product. Sure, you can try to teach people that their carryon isn't a part of the ticket price but there will be blowback.

I used to go to a restaurant that would add 5 cents a pack for crackers for your soup and 5 cents a pack for ketchup. We're talking pennies but people would bitch and complain because "crackers and ketchup are supposed to be free".

I would prefer that my coffee is 10 cents cheaper and those who want to pay for cream and sugar pay their share.

We'll do an airline compromise: you'll now have to pay 10 cents for cream and sugar, but current coffee prices won't get cheaper.