Are New E2 FOs Screwed?

[cdnavater]

Does anyone think porter pilots will make significant gains in the new contract? Is it going to focus more on FOs (since they are losing FOs)?

1) No
2) Yes

[flyingpilot]

Any guesses as to what kind of hourly pay porter is looking at?

[cdnavater]

Any guesses as to what kind of hourly pay porter is looking at?

No, I don’t work there but if I were to guess, I think Porter has come to the stage where growth is slowing and they no longer need to attract DEC candidates.
With that in mind, they need something that makes FOs want to stay and eventually upgrade, things like YOS when you actually upgrade and higher pay for FOs are two key things. Keep in mind though, most if not all E2 FOs are behind Dashport Captains who will fill the Captain spots for some time to come, which keeps them perpetually on the bottom of the list until that scale tips.
If they come out with a Dash pay scale that has them incentivized to move over to Q Captain from E2 FO, that might help but I personally wouldn’t make that move regardless because if E2 pilots unionize the joint list is in jeopardy!

[goingnowherefast]

If they come out with a Dash pay scale that has them incentivized to move over to Q Captain from E2 FO, that might help but I personally wouldn’t make that move regardless because if E2 pilots unionize the joint list is in jeopardy!

Why would unionizing split the list? Isn't the union drive for ALL Porter pilots on both types? I don't think any pro-union person is boneheaded enough to offer management a divide and conquer tactic.

[cdnavater]

If they come out with a Dash pay scale that has them incentivized to move over to Q Captain from E2 FO, that might help but I personally wouldn’t make that move regardless because if E2 pilots unionize the joint list is in jeopardy!

Why would unionizing split the list? Isn't the union drive for ALL Porter pilots on both types? I don't think any pro-union person is boneheaded enough to offer management a divide and conquer tactic.

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

[PRM1]

Common employer status.

[8895]

If they come out with a Dash pay scale that has them incentivized to move over to Q Captain from E2 FO, that might help but I personally wouldn’t make that move regardless because if E2 pilots unionize the joint list is in jeopardy!

Why would unionizing split the list? Isn't the union drive for ALL Porter pilots on both types? I don't think any pro-union person is boneheaded enough to offer management a divide and conquer tactic.

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

This is blatant misinformation. Stop fear mongering and go back to blaming sky regional for why you’re an old bitter jazz pilot.

[runway29]

If they come out with a Dash pay scale that has them incentivized to move over to Q Captain from E2 FO, that might help but I personally wouldn’t make that move regardless because if E2 pilots unionize the joint list is in jeopardy!

Why would unionizing split the list? Isn't the union drive for ALL Porter pilots on both types? I don't think any pro-union person is boneheaded enough to offer management a divide and conquer tactic.

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

The ALPA Porter Pilots movement clearly stated on the last call that they want to keep both Dashport and E2 under the bargaining unit

[cdnavater]

Why would unionizing split the list? Isn't the union drive for ALL Porter pilots on both types? I don't think any pro-union person is boneheaded enough to offer management a divide and conquer tactic.

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

This is blatant misinformation. Stop fear mongering and go back to blaming sky regional for why you’re an old bitter jazz pilot.

Are they not separate companies with a separate AOC?

[8895]

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

This is blatant misinformation. Stop fear mongering and go back to blaming sky regional for why you’re an old bitter jazz pilot.

Are they not separate companies with a separate AOC?

They are on separate AOC’s (for now) but I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are. That won’t be a factor in separate bargaining units.

[cdnavater]

This is blatant misinformation. Stop fear mongering and go back to blaming sky regional for why you’re an old bitter jazz pilot.

Are they not separate companies with a separate AOC?

They are on separate AOC’s (for now) but I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are. That won’t be a factor in separate bargaining units.

Do you have common employer status?
Show me something that says you can have the same bargaining unit for two separate companies

[braaap Braap]

Are they not separate companies with a separate AOC?

They are on separate AOC’s (for now) but I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are. That won’t be a factor in separate bargaining units.

Do you have common employer status?
Show me something that says you can have the same bargaining unit for two separate companies

Air Canada and Rouge

[goingnowherefast]

Are AC and ROU separate AOCs? What about separate bargaining units? Same question for WJ and Swoop back in those messy days?

POE and PTR are run as one product under the same upper management. They are arguably more similar than AC and ROU, that are run as slightly different products.

Does the CIRB care how a company is organized under TC? Or does the CIRB care how the workers are managed pre-certification? I'm pretty sure the Porter pilots are managed under the same guide book and treated as one employee group by their employer.

[flyingpilot]

What are your thoughts on the new AC announcement today and how it will affect porter?

[8895]

What are your thoughts on the new AC announcement today and how it will affect porter?

I’d say this is thread drift and make another one about it but honestly I’m curious about this too lol

[cjp]

What are your thoughts on the new AC announcement today and how it will affect porter?

I’d say this is thread drift and make another one about it but honestly I’m curious about this too lol

I saw something about YVR 220 base in 2026 but otherwise AC is on a very different attack.

[8895]

What are your thoughts on the new AC announcement today and how it will affect porter?

I’d say this is thread drift and make another one about it but honestly I’m curious about this too lol

I saw something about YVR 220 base in 2026 but otherwise AC is on a very different attack.

I’d agree on the fact that they really seem to be chasing the premium tier pax. Imagine with how focused on transatlantic they are that sucks for AT. Be curious to see how much domestic and trans border marketshare they’ve lost to porter.

[cdnavater]

They are on separate AOC’s (for now) but I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are. That won’t be a factor in separate bargaining units.

Do you have common employer status?
Show me something that says you can have the same bargaining unit for two separate companies

Air Canada and Rouge

Yep, that’s true, point taken it but I think the AC pilots negotiated that in the contract

[canadianfly]

If they come out with a Dash pay scale that has them incentivized to move over to Q Captain from E2 FO, that might help but I personally wouldn’t make that move regardless because if E2 pilots unionize the joint list is in jeopardy!

Why would unionizing split the list? Isn't the union drive for ALL Porter pilots on both types? I don't think any pro-union person is boneheaded enough to offer management a divide and conquer tactic.

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

Sorry but Can't agree on this mate.

[cdnavater]

Why would unionizing split the list? Isn't the union drive for ALL Porter pilots on both types? I don't think any pro-union person is boneheaded enough to offer management a divide and conquer tactic.

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

Sorry but Can't agree on this mate.

A little late to the party bud, already agreed it’s possible!

[canadianfly]

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

Sorry but Can't agree on this mate.

A little late to the party bud, already agreed it’s possible!

I wonder where you got this from

[windshields]

bro discovered how seniority works

[8895]

It doesn’t matter, they are separate companies with separate OCs and will have separate bargaining units

Sorry but Can't agree on this mate.

A little late to the party bud, already agreed it’s possible!

It’s also possible that AT becomes the flag carrier of Canada. Or that AC pilots vote for separate bargaining units for mainline and rouge lol stop talking tough bud. You were proven wrong. Stop fear mongering with misinformation and go back to your 4 leg min credit days until retirement already.

[cdnavater]

Sorry but Can't agree on this mate.

A little late to the party bud, already agreed it’s possible!

It’s also possible that AT becomes the flag carrier of Canada. Or that AC pilots vote for separate bargaining units for mainline and rouge lol stop talking tough bud. You were proven wrong. Stop fear mongering with misinformation and go back to your 4 leg min credit days until retirement already.

Go back to your FOAG and help them lick managements boots, I’m sure you’ll get a huge raise that way!
In the meantime, never say never, otherwise you may eat some crow someday!

[braaap Braap]

It’s also possible that AT becomes the flag carrier of Canada. Or that AC pilots vote for separate bargaining units for mainline and rouge lol stop talking tough bud. You were proven wrong. Stop fear mongering with misinformation and go back to your 4 leg min credit days until retirement already.

I think he recognized he was mistaken. No need to jump down his throat