Did Air Canada pilots really take concessions in this negotiating climate?

[737Drver]

So my understanding is Air Canada pilots took large concessions during the latest round of bargaining which was considered the best negotiating environment EVER?

What's wrong with you guys

[flyingfool]

Yup...probably a good $400 million concession with the loss of the incentive bonus plan.

[DanWEC]

The stock skyrocketing after the ratification is all the assessment you need.

[BillytheKid]

Why did the union agree to these concessions and why did the members vote it in??

[eyebrow737]

When the MEC was harping on and on about a world class contract it appears they were correct

Unfortunately it was world class for the company and not the pilots

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

Why did the union agree to these concessions and why did the members vote it in??

Some shit about peak leverage and this is the best they could get...then a full on fear campaign to push the vote through.

ALPA EF&A said that they didn't think there would be a bonus payout which turned out to be total bullshit. Company has some pretty ambitious profit margins. If what they say is true...it would have been max bonus payouts for the foreseeable future. We are talking $10-20k a year gone for every member.

All in all...a shit sandwich. Union leaders are all but mute so assumingly in hiding and just enjoying their new 90 hrs a month at captain pay

[thepoors]

All in all...a shit sandwich. Union leaders are all but mute so assumingly in hiding and just enjoying their new 90 hrs a month at captain pay

This might be the most infuriating part. Back to business as usual after a collosal failure/sellout. They need to be shamed and tossed out.

[braaap Braap]

All in all...a shit sandwich. Union leaders are all but mute so assumingly in hiding and just enjoying their new 90 hrs a month at captain pay

This might be the most infuriating part. Back to business as usual after a collosal failure/sellout. They need to be shamed and tossed out.

Then step up and do it. If the 10 of you loudmouths would step up and stop keyboard warrioring you could be ALPA executives by now

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

All in all...a shit sandwich. Union leaders are all but mute so assumingly in hiding and just enjoying their new 90 hrs a month at captain pay

This might be the most infuriating part. Back to business as usual after a collosal failure/sellout. They need to be shamed and tossed out.

Then step up and do it. If the 10 of you loudmouths would step up and stop keyboard warrioring you could be ALPA executives by now

Where's the link to upload your application?

[altiplano]

This might be the most infuriating part. Back to business as usual after a collosal failure/sellout. They need to be shamed and tossed out.

Then step up and do it. If the 10 of you loudmouths would step up and stop keyboard warrioring you could be ALPA executives by now

Where's the link to upload your application?

There are calls to serve that come out anytime an elected position opens up.

Or they are often asking for help during membership events, vacation bids, LMMs, etc.

Or for committee work, I think there are often vacancies that are published.

Or you could contact a status rep and find out how you could get involved.

[noreasterYHZ]

Then step up and do it. If the 10 of you loudmouths would step up and stop keyboard warrioring you could be ALPA executives by now

Where's the link to upload your application?

There are calls to serve that come out anytime an elected position opens up.

Or they are often asking for help during membership events, vacation bids, LMMs, etc.

Or for committee work, I think there are often vacancies that are published.

Or you could contact a status rep and find out how you could get involved.

Are there any positions open right now?

So you don't need to fly anymore? Can you work from home?

[altiplano]

You should go take a look for yourself if you're interested.

Most union work is in addition to your job. There are a few positions with flight releases. And I think that there are times that people get displaced to deal with company meetings or grievances or things like PBS block validation.

I guess it depends what your doing on if you are working from home or the union office or traveling or whatever. I don't know.

[CPU2000]

I'd be interested as well. So there is no website with current openings to apply for? Nice to get some info

[altiplano]

I see there's a volunteer option in the DART function. Available on the ALPA app or site..

I would either start their or contact your status reps.

[pelmet]

Then step up and do it. If the 10 of you loudmouths would step up and stop keyboard warrioring you could be ALPA executives by now

Where's the link to upload your application?

There are calls to serve that come out anytime an elected position opens up.

Or they are often asking for help during membership events, vacation bids, LMMs, etc.

Or for committee work, I think there are often vacancies that are published.

Or you could contact a status rep and find out how you could get involved.

One need only look at this forum to see what I learned long ago. Avoid being a union rep as you will be insulted and badmouthed relentlessly behind your back(or on-line now) by fellow employees with unrealistic expectations on how much they should be getting from the company. I witnessed it in my first union and witnessed it again in my second union.

I still remember some of the quotes: "He's a POS', "He has his head up ...........", "He should be hung from the nearest yardarm".

Social media has just allowed the true feelings of people, under their fake veneer, to be revealed to a greater extent.

The AC forum was gushing over their MEC chair during the negotiations and then reverted to massive insults. Why would someone want to put themselves in that position, when they can just join the crowd and grumble on the job in order to burnish themselves to their co-workers.

[cdnavater]

Where's the link to upload your application?

There are calls to serve that come out anytime an elected position opens up.

Or they are often asking for help during membership events, vacation bids, LMMs, etc.

Or for committee work, I think there are often vacancies that are published.

Or you could contact a status rep and find out how you could get involved.

One need only look at this forum to see what I learned long ago. Avoid being a union rep as you will be insulted and badmouthed relentlessly behind your back(or on-line now) by fellow employees with unrealistic expectations on how much they should be getting from the company. I witnessed it in my first union and witnessed it again in my second union.

I still remember some of the quotes: "He's a POS', "He has his head up ...........", "He should be hung from the nearest yardarm".

Social media has just allowed the true feelings of people, under their fake veneer, to be revealed to a greater extent.

The AC forum was gushing over their MEC chair during the negotiations and then reverted to massive insults. Why would someone want to put themselves in that position, when they can just join the crowd and grumble on the job in order to burnish themselves to their co-workers.

People just don’t understand the whole negotiation process, you have(must) set expectations high, you have(must) rally the troops, disappointment is inevitable unless you are a realist and have a shred of common sense that you will not get everything you are asking for. There is a near zero chance of that, yet people who clearly have trust issues and no common sense are the ones who are still beeking off about how much they could have had, they point to Canada post as their shining example, yet after a month of a strike and lost income(saved Canada post millions) they reduced their wage demand and still ended up forced back.
The leverage was used, AC gave more than they ever have, top Captains making 430k plus and yet, still not enough.
A union volunteer position is a very thankless job with many more hours not “paid” than what they might benefit from. I thought about running for a rep position long ago and realized, it’s not worth it and the reality is I would have been in hot water no doubt, I’m not afraid to tell someone that they’re an idiot when it’s called for and I would have.
Thankfully I don’t have to sit beside these guys at AC, HR would have me on speed dial!

[CaptDukeNukem]

There are calls to serve that come out anytime an elected position opens up.

Or they are often asking for help during membership events, vacation bids, LMMs, etc.

Or for committee work, I think there are often vacancies that are published.

Or you could contact a status rep and find out how you could get involved.

One need only look at this forum to see what I learned long ago. Avoid being a union rep as you will be insulted and badmouthed relentlessly behind your back(or on-line now) by fellow employees with unrealistic expectations on how much they should be getting from the company. I witnessed it in my first union and witnessed it again in my second union.

I still remember some of the quotes: "He's a POS', "He has his head up ...........", "He should be hung from the nearest yardarm".

Social media has just allowed the true feelings of people, under their fake veneer, to be revealed to a greater extent.

The AC forum was gushing over their MEC chair during the negotiations and then reverted to massive insults. Why would someone want to put themselves in that position, when they can just join the crowd and grumble on the job in order to burnish themselves to their co-workers.

People just don’t understand the whole negotiation process, you have(must) set expectations high, you have(must) rally the troops, disappointment is inevitable unless you are a realist and have a shred of common sense that you will not get everything you are asking for. There is a near zero chance of that, yet people who clearly have trust issues and no common sense are the ones who are still beeking off about how much they could have had, they point to Canada post as their shining example, yet after a month of a strike and lost income(saved Canada post millions) they reduced their wage demand and still ended up forced back.
The leverage was used, AC gave more than they ever have, top Captains making 430k plus and yet, still not enough.
A union volunteer position is a very thankless job with many more hours not “paid” than what they might benefit from. I thought about running for a rep position long ago and realized, it’s not worth it and the reality is I would have been in hot water no doubt, I’m not afraid to tell someone that they’re an idiot when it’s called for and I would have.
Thankfully I don’t have to sit beside these guys at AC, HR would have me on speed dial!

Was the leverage used completely is the question? Cuz I bet some sizable bonuses coming down the pipe for the seats at the table. In my opinion there was more turkey to be eaten.

[Torontomaplelaughs]

A union volunteer position is a very thankless job with many more hours not “paid” than what they might benefit from. I thought about running for a rep position long ago and realized, it’s not worth it and the reality is I would have been in hot water no doubt, I’m not afraid to tell someone that they’re an idiot when it’s called for and I would have.

Please don't ever get involved. Don't need union leaders calling members idiots. Holy sheet this is fucking bad

[thepoors]

All in all...a shit sandwich. Union leaders are all but mute so assumingly in hiding and just enjoying their new 90 hrs a month at captain pay

This might be the most infuriating part. Back to business as usual after a collosal failure/sellout. They need to be shamed and tossed out.

Then step up and do it. If the 10 of you loudmouths would step up and stop keyboard warrioring you could be ALPA executives by now

Gotta love this idiot logic. As if I, or anyone else, could walk into this fraudulent organization full of corrupt people and change anything. #wOrLd ClAsS cOnTrAcT

[Bede]

Gotta love this idiot logic. As if I, or anyone else, could walk into this fraudulent organization full of corrupt people and change anything. #wOrLd ClAsS cOnTrAcT

Who specifically do you think is corrupt and what evidence do you have to support your claim?

[cdnavater]

One need only look at this forum to see what I learned long ago. Avoid being a union rep as you will be insulted and badmouthed relentlessly behind your back(or on-line now) by fellow employees with unrealistic expectations on how much they should be getting from the company. I witnessed it in my first union and witnessed it again in my second union.

I still remember some of the quotes: "He's a POS', "He has his head up ...........", "He should be hung from the nearest yardarm".

Social media has just allowed the true feelings of people, under their fake veneer, to be revealed to a greater extent.

The AC forum was gushing over their MEC chair during the negotiations and then reverted to massive insults. Why would someone want to put themselves in that position, when they can just join the crowd and grumble on the job in order to burnish themselves to their co-workers.

People just don’t understand the whole negotiation process, you have(must) set expectations high, you have(must) rally the troops, disappointment is inevitable unless you are a realist and have a shred of common sense that you will not get everything you are asking for. There is a near zero chance of that, yet people who clearly have trust issues and no common sense are the ones who are still beeking off about how much they could have had, they point to Canada post as their shining example, yet after a month of a strike and lost income(saved Canada post millions) they reduced their wage demand and still ended up forced back.
The leverage was used, AC gave more than they ever have, top Captains making 430k plus and yet, still not enough.
A union volunteer position is a very thankless job with many more hours not “paid” than what they might benefit from. I thought about running for a rep position long ago and realized, it’s not worth it and the reality is I would have been in hot water no doubt, I’m not afraid to tell someone that they’re an idiot when it’s called for and I would have.
Thankfully I don’t have to sit beside these guys at AC, HR would have me on speed dial!

Was the leverage used completely is the question? Cuz I bet some sizable bonuses coming down the pipe for the seats at the table. In my opinion there was more turkey to be eaten.

It’s a question without an answer, the people at the table decided, no doubt with labour lawyers opinion that the turkey was at maximum without actually walking the picket line.
Whether or not going on strike would have resulted in more or resulted in being ordered back to work with an arbitrator deciding the fate is also not a question that can be answered with any definitive certainty.
However what is known, the risks were assessed and the people charged with the decision, decided to send it to the group, with some obvious pressure, maybe that part could have been handled better, it really didn’t need to be said that she would resign.
That being said, the group had the power to send it back and didn’t, much like when Jazz pilots had to vote on a contract improvement and the loudest mouths said d it’s not enough and they will give more, etc.
Here we are over a year later, still not getting experienced pilots, still short on Captains and not a peep from AC or Jazz management on how they intend on dealing with that. So, was more available, it appears not.

[cdnavater]

A union volunteer position is a very thankless job with many more hours not “paid” than what they might benefit from. I thought about running for a rep position long ago and realized, it’s not worth it and the reality is I would have been in hot water no doubt, I’m not afraid to tell someone that they’re an idiot when it’s called for and I would have.

Please don't ever get involved. Don't need union leaders calling members idiots. Holy sheet this is fucking bad

Like I said, thought about it a decided on my own, my personality would not be a good fit for that, as much as I thought, I could do better, which is arrogant but isn’t that what most people seem to think! Certainly a lot of posters here seem to think that!
Oh, one last thing, I’m nearing the end of my career, it’s time for the juniors to step up however all I ever hear from them is how we screwed them and if they had their way I would lose my DB pension, maybe don’t lead with that f you want people to vote for you

[Canadianpilot2024]

WJ contract > AC contract

[braaap Braap]

This might be the most infuriating part. Back to business as usual after a collosal failure/sellout. They need to be shamed and tossed out.

Then step up and do it. If the 10 of you loudmouths would step up and stop keyboard warrioring you could be ALPA executives by now

Gotta love this idiot logic. As if I, or anyone else, could walk into this fraudulent organization full of corrupt people and change anything. #wOrLd ClAsS cOnTrAcT

Idiot logic? Its literally how the world works? What's actually going to happen is you're going to realize you're just the crazy guy yelling at the clouds.

[Aerkavo]

Then step up and do it. If the 10 of you loudmouths would step up and stop keyboard warrioring you could be ALPA executives by now

Gotta love this idiot logic. As if I, or anyone else, could walk into this fraudulent organization full of corrupt people and change anything. #wOrLd ClAsS cOnTrAcT

Idiot logic? Its literally how the world works? What's actually going to happen is you're going to realize you're just the crazy guy yelling at the clouds.

Exactly. But even worse, he'll have spent years whining and complaining about it here. The whining and complaining was completely legitimate for a week or two after the vote results (had my own week of complaining to everyone I met) but eventually, you have to accept it, make peace, try to learn something, plan for how to make it better next time, etc.