Did Air Canada pilots really take concessions in this negotiating climate?

[thepoors]

Seriously bede? Your ALPA bootlicking is completely embarrassing and delusional.

2/3 were "satisfied" enough to ratify after they were told: vote yes or else... I can say with confidence 2/3 of the pilot group is not happy with this contract, even many who voted yes. They only voted yes because we were told, in no uncertain terms, we would be abandoned if this wasn't voted through. Is that how a union "works?"

I'm a proud union man and ALPA is my union. I make no apologies. What's the alternative?

What you're doing is sowing disunity. You are playing into management's wishes perfectly by allowing yourself to be divided away from your colleagues.

ALPA leadership are the ones causing disunity. They went from World Class Contract/Strike Ready/no pennies left on the table, to a complete 180 of vote this crappy TA in or we leave you hanging.

The truth is AC management played the negots expertly and these duds in the MEC are a bunch of all bark, no bite losers.

She just put out a Christmas/year end video that is nauseating and repulsive. First time she's addressed the pilot group since Oct. Hard to believe we were actually duped by this cringey person who has all the charisma of a wet diaper.

[Bede]

ALPA leadership are the ones causing disunity. They went from World Class Contract/Strike Ready/no pennies left on the table, to a complete 180 of vote this crappy TA in or we leave you hanging.

The truth is AC management played the negots expertly and these duds in the MEC are a bunch of all bark, no bite losers.

She just put out a Christmas/year end video that is nauseating and repulsive. First time she's addressed the pilot group since Oct. Hard to believe we were actually duped by this cringey person who has all the charisma of a wet diaper.

So why don't you and your colleagues who feel similar run for positions and run the union the way you see fit? /ns

[rudder]

I can say with confidence 2/3 of the pilot group is not happy with this contract, even many who voted yes.

Is it possible they’re just politely agreeing with you so you shut up?

No. There is a lot of truth in what he says.

Most people who voted yes always say they voted yes out of fear or pressure from the union. CH and JJ are becoming exactly what they despised of ACPA

The MEC chair told us she would resign should we vote down her TA. She absolutely crumbled.

This TA was an improvement yes, but considering how far we have fallen in the last decade and the unprecedented negotiating environment the MEC yes voters was struck out not swinging on a full count. Lots of QOL items not addressed. The company put the MEC on a burning platform and they bought into it, hook line and sinker.

I am hopeful that in the new year she steps down or is removed along with her pilot fish of an executive whos ego has exploded lately.

It's amazing how well AC FOPs management played these guys.

She should step down or at least make it clear that she will not stand for re-election in Q1 2025 when her term expires. She is a wounded duck. She doesn’t have 67% support (the ratification result). Lots of yes voters hoped for/expected a different result. And what’s worse - the company knows that.

She served her purpose. She managed the transition to ALPA. She followed the ALPA playbook for bargaining prep (infrastructure/communications). She said all of the right things (it is not that complicated to follow a simple script).

Lots can be said about process (voluntary mediation) and potential CIRB/Ministerial intervention, but the AC pilots ended up with a CBA that is still seriously lacking in QOL.

The job of the MEC for the next 3 years is to manage implementation of the CBA and to set tone for the next round of bargaining or any interim bargaining that may transpire. Who will be more effective at ‘setting the tone’ - the incumbent MEC Chair or a new voice?

The choice is hers. Acknowledge her role was transitory and that the AC pilots now require a fresh voice. Or prove that 90 hours at CA pay is more important.

ALPA is full of pilot representatives that don’t know when it is time to step aside. A combination of hubris and attachment to the lifestyle. Power is always intoxicating. But believing that you are the ‘only one’ that can do the job is evidence that time is up.

What the AC pilots need now is a hard nosed MEC that holds the companies feet to the fire on implementation and makes clear at every opportunity that there will be meaningful change in 2027 (or sooner). Is CH really the best one for that role? Perhaps simply say ‘thank you for your service’ and move on.

Talk you your status rep. That is who elects the MEC Executive. Ask who is running for the Executive positions and offer your opinion. You cannot complain about the result if you don’t participate.

Good luck.

[flyingcanuck]

Is it possible they’re just politely agreeing with you so you shut up?

No. There is a lot of truth in what he says.

Most people who voted yes always say they voted yes out of fear or pressure from the union. CH and JJ are becoming exactly what they despised of ACPA

The MEC chair told us she would resign should we vote down her TA. She absolutely crumbled.

This TA was an improvement yes, but considering how far we have fallen in the last decade and the unprecedented negotiating environment the MEC yes voters was struck out not swinging on a full count. Lots of QOL items not addressed. The company put the MEC on a burning platform and they bought into it, hook line and sinker.

I am hopeful that in the new year she steps down or is removed along with her pilot fish of an executive whos ego has exploded lately.

It's amazing how well AC FOPs management played these guys.

She should step down or at least make it clear that she will not stand for re-election in Q1 2025 when her term expires. She is a wounded duck. She doesn’t have 67% support (the ratification result). Lots of yes voters hoped for/expected a different result. And what’s worse - the company knows that.

She served her purpose. She managed the transition to ALPA. She followed the ALPA playbook for bargaining prep (infrastructure/communications). She said all of the right things (it is not that complicated to follow a simple script).

Lots can be said about process (voluntary mediation) and potential CIRB/Ministerial intervention, but the AC pilots ended up with a CBA that is still seriously lacking in QOL.

The job of the MEC for the next 3 years is to manage implementation of the CBA and to set tone for the next round of bargaining or any interim bargaining that may transpire. Who will be more effective at ‘setting the tone’ - the incumbent MEC Chair or a new voice?

The choice is hers. Acknowledge her role was transitory and that the AC pilots now require a fresh voice. Or prove that 90 hours at CA pay is more important.

ALPA is full of pilot representatives that don’t know when it is time to step aside. A combination of hubris and attachment to the lifestyle. Power is always intoxicating. But believing that you are the ‘only one’ that can do the job is evidence that time is up.

What the AC pilots need now is a hard nosed MEC that holds the companies feet to the fire on implementation and makes clear at every opportunity that there will be meaningful change in 2027 (or sooner). Is CH really the best one for that role? Perhaps simply say ‘thank you for your service’ and move on.

Talk you your status rep. That is who elects the MEC Executive. Ask who is running for the Executive positions and offer your opinion. You cannot complain about the result if you don’t participate.

Good luck.

very well said, I agree entirely

[Protonpilot]

The above is true but the quick upgrades won’t last forever.

Hard to keep track, but with yesterday's announcement (Dec 20) of an additional 5 x A220, the firm orders for the next 5 years are now at about 95 aircraft. 75 NB and 20 WB, and most of that is growth. That's close to 1000 pilots required to fill those cockpits.

At the TA roadshow a question was asked about career prospects for new hires. It was mentioned that the DB plan has 1000 pilots who are older than 55, meaning they're gone in the next ten years. So a new hire today can expect to have 2000 pilots below them in ten years time. (A change to the ICAO limit could stretch that out by a few years but not by much).

Quick upgrades won't last forever, it's true. But who are you addressing that to? Kids in high school? How about we stick to the near to medium term.
Anyone reading this forum who has an ATPL with enough experience to get an offer from AC can reasonably expect an upgrade to NB CA in 5 years or less based on those numbers. Every year you put it off is another few hundred ahead of you on the seniority list.

If your answer to that is the industry can be cyclical, that's also very true. But that down cycle will hit the other operators in Canada just as hard - or harder if they don't have the financial backing to tough it out.

AC isn't for everybody, but if you're thinking of applying there's no time like the present. IMHO

[Blueontop]

Seriously bede? Your ALPA bootlicking is completely embarrassing and delusional.

2/3 were "satisfied" enough to ratify after they were told: vote yes or else... I can say with confidence 2/3 of the pilot group is not happy with this contract, even many who voted yes. They only voted yes because we were told, in no uncertain terms, we would be abandoned if this wasn't voted through. Is that how a union "works?"

I'm a proud union man and ALPA is my union. I make no apologies. What's the alternative?

What you're doing is sowing disunity. You are playing into management's wishes perfectly by allowing yourself to be divided away from your colleagues.

So Bede in your opinion was the AC contract a touch down or a fumble

[Aerkavo]

So Bede in your opinion was the AC contract a touch down or a fumble

I know you're weren't asking me but I'd like to give an answer to your question.

Was the latest contract a touchdown or a fumble? It doesn't matter. In fact, it's a meaningless question. Some people will think it was a win others will think the pilots got shafted - either way - doesn't matter because this is what we got. In 3 years a maximum effort should be made to improve the contract and whether this was win or not doesn't change that.

[rudder]

The above is true but the quick upgrades won’t last forever.

Hard to keep track, but with yesterday's announcement (Dec 20) of an additional 5 x A220, the firm orders for the next 5 years are now at about 95 aircraft. 75 NB and 20 WB, and most of that is growth. That's close to 1000 pilots required to fill those cockpits.

At the TA roadshow a question was asked about career prospects for new hires. It was mentioned that the DB plan has 1000 pilots who are older than 55, meaning they're gone in the next ten years. So a new hire today can expect to have 2000 pilots below them in ten years time. (A change to the ICAO limit could stretch that out by a few years but not by much).

Quick upgrades won't last forever, it's true. But who are you addressing that to? Kids in high school? How about we stick to the near to medium term.
Anyone reading this forum who has an ATPL with enough experience to get an offer from AC can reasonably expect an upgrade to NB CA in 5 years or less based on those numbers. Every year you put it off is another few hundred ahead of you on the seniority list.

If your answer to that is the industry can be cyclical, that's also very true. But that down cycle will hit the other operators in Canada just as hard - or harder if they don't have the financial backing to tough it out.

AC isn't for everybody, but if you're thinking of applying there's no time like the present. IMHO

What seems to be missing from the equation is the rate of decay on the 319/320 fleet. The investor day presentation alluded to the ability to ‘flex’ on these fleet types for capacity as many fins are owned aircraft. However, most of the slides seem to indicate that these aircraft are not part of the future at AC.

In all ‘sales pitch’ presentations to pilots the projections will always be best case scenario. Safest bet is to take best case plus worst case then divide by two. Makes it less likely to be disappointed and more likely to be pleasantly surprised.

[Protonpilot]

What seems to be missing from the equation is the rate of decay on the 319/320 fleet. The investor day presentation alluded to the ability to ‘flex’ on these fleet types for capacity as many fins are owned aircraft. However, most of the slides seem to indicate that these aircraft are not part of the future at AC.

In all ‘sales pitch’ presentations to pilots the projections will always be best case scenario. Safest bet is to take best case plus worst case then divide by two. Makes it less likely to be disappointed and more likely to be pleasantly surprised.

Completely agree.

That's why I was trying to be conservative by saying five years is a realistic upgrade time for anyone hired in the next couple of years.

Our junior NB Captains have 18 months. A few hundred in the 2-3 year seniority range.

Not everyone wants to upgrade and be junior on a list at the start of their career. But for those who do, that position now pays above $250K, even at step 3.

[Bede]

So Bede in your opinion was the AC contract a touch down or a fumble

Good question. I thought about that a lot when the TA came out. (Full disclosure: I'm not at AC and I didn't read the full TA, but read the executive summary.)

Certainly the hourly rate increase and 41% contract cost was half decent. However, I'm a QoL guy. Things like vacation, training, etc. still have a long, long way to go. I suspect though that the survey results put a big emphasis on pay and less on QoL hence the TA that you got.

[rudder]

What seems to be missing from the equation is the rate of decay on the 319/320 fleet. The investor day presentation alluded to the ability to ‘flex’ on these fleet types for capacity as many fins are owned aircraft. However, most of the slides seem to indicate that these aircraft are not part of the future at AC.

In all ‘sales pitch’ presentations to pilots the projections will always be best case scenario. Safest bet is to take best case plus worst case then divide by two. Makes it less likely to be disappointed and more likely to be pleasantly surprised.

Completely agree.

That's why I was trying to be conservative by saying five years is a realistic upgrade time for anyone hired in the next couple of years.

Our junior NB Captains have 18 months. A few hundred in the 2-3 year seniority range.

Not everyone wants to upgrade and be junior on a list at the start of their career. But for those who do, that position now pays above $250K, even at step 3.

On paper, biggest fleet type going forward will be the A220-300. Just imagine if Airbus offered an A220-500…… AC would be all over that.

NB Airbus pilots will be in the minority by 2028.

[Handover]

So Bede in your opinion was the AC contract a touch down or a fumble

Good question. I thought about that a lot when the TA came out. (Full disclosure: I'm not at AC and I didn't read the full TA, but read the executive summary.)

Certainly the hourly rate increase and 41% contract cost was half decent. However, I'm a QoL guy. Things like vacation, training, etc. still have a long, long way to go. I suspect though that the survey results put a big emphasis on pay and less on QoL hence the TA that you got.

You could have joined Sunwing. Our quality of life was far superior to what is at WestJet. Then it was decided by AKPA that wasn't worth arguing for and now we have your quality of life which probably near on 98% of Sunwing pilots are miserable about. Did I see you voicing quality of life preference during the whole merger?

Or do you just pick whatever line the union tells you to and don't provide critical thought for fear of 'sowing discord'?

[rudder]

So Bede in your opinion was the AC contract a touch down or a fumble

Good question. I thought about that a lot when the TA came out. (Full disclosure: I'm not at AC and I didn't read the full TA, but read the executive summary.)

Certainly the hourly rate increase and 41% contract cost was half decent. However, I'm a QoL guy. Things like vacation, training, etc. still have a long, long way to go. I suspect though that the survey results put a big emphasis on pay and less on QoL hence the TA that you got.

You could have joined Sunwing. Our quality of life was far superior to what is at WestJet. Then it was decided by AKPA that wasn't worth arguing for and now we have your quality of life which probably near on 98% of Sunwing pilots are miserable about. Did I see you voicing quality of life preference during the whole merger?

Or do you just pick whatever line the union tells you to and don't provide critical thought for fear of 'sowing discord'?

SW pilots had QOL due to the nature of the operation. There is zero chance that the SWG flying was going to remain ‘separate’ given the common fleet types.

If you want to be angry, be angry at Hunter/Thompson who sold your company to ONEX.

Apologies for the thread drift…..

[Bede]

You could have joined Sunwing. Our quality of life was far superior to what is at WestJet.

I could have. I'd be further ahead. Lol.
You had a good gig, great even. As did C3 pilots, Wardair, SkyService, etc.

what in your CA was superior from a QoL standpoint compared to WJ?

[Handover]

You could have joined Sunwing. Our quality of life was far superior to what is at WestJet.

I could have. I'd be further ahead. Lol.
You had a good gig, great even. As did C3 pilots, Wardair, SkyService, etc.

what in your CA was superior from a QoL standpoint compared to WJ?

CA, or not CA. We get to spend about 20 days home with the family a month on average, probably more in summer while still getting pay. I averaged about 6-8 days a month since I started. That is the essence of QOL

[cdnavater]

You could have joined Sunwing. Our quality of life was far superior to what is at WestJet.

I could have. I'd be further ahead. Lol.
You had a good gig, great even. As did C3 pilots, Wardair, SkyService, etc.

what in your CA was superior from a QoL standpoint compared to WJ?

CA, or not CA. We get to spend about 20 days home with the family a month on average, probably more in summer while still getting pay. I averaged about 6-8 days a month since I started. That is the essence of QOL

You know, super long turns is not a collective agreement QOL item, it is a function destination and pairing construction!
Those destinations will still be there and likely from most of the same departures, with socialized bidding, you may even hold some but this is NOT a westjet contract issue, it’s a company that sold and no longer exists issue.
I will suggest that WJ contract is superior in many if not most aspects and even if you brought the SunWing contract over to WJ(wasn’t happening) but even if it was possible and it happened, it would have zero impact on the amount of days you work, the flying is just different now because it’s mixed with a year round schedule.
You sound like the AC pilots who can’t accept the majority voted for a contract and refuse to move on! Your company, will no longer exist, if you can’t accept that maybe you should apply to the other leisure only operator!

[Bede]

CA, or not CA. We get to spend about 20 days home with the family a month on average, probably more in summer while still getting pay. I averaged about 6-8 days a month since I started. That is the essence of QOL

Indeed it is. It is also why you were purchased by a PE firm for the assumption of debt. Someone saw a decent revenue stream at a distressed price that they could make more efficient.

[Handover]

I could have. I'd be further ahead. Lol.
You had a good gig, great even. As did C3 pilots, Wardair, SkyService, etc.

what in your CA was superior from a QoL standpoint compared to WJ?

CA, or not CA. We get to spend about 20 days home with the family a month on average, probably more in summer while still getting pay. I averaged about 6-8 days a month since I started. That is the essence of QOL

You know, super long turns is not a collective agreement QOL item, it is a function destination and pairing construction!
Those destinations will still be there and likely from most of the same departures, with socialized bidding, you may even hold some but this is NOT a westjet contract issue, it’s a company that sold and no longer exists issue.
I will suggest that WJ contract is superior in many if not most aspects and even if you brought the SunWing contract over to WJ(wasn’t happening) but even if it was possible and it happened, it would have zero impact on the amount of days you work, the flying is just different now because it’s mixed with a year round schedule.
You sound like the AC pilots who can’t accept the majority voted for a contract and refuse to move on! Your company, will no longer exist, if you can’t accept that maybe you should apply to the other leisure only operator!

Ah, the eternal Canadian love affair with collective agreements and unions. It's baffling how you all cling to them so tightly, even when it's clear they’ve delivered some of the worst working conditions in aviation for the type of airlines you operate. How’s that working out for you?

For the record, I never brought up the CA. I was talking about Sunwing's better QOL. Let’s get down to brass tacks: how many days do you actually work in a month? How many legs? How long are your layovers? That’s what defines quality of life—not some arbitrary 200-page document filled with legalese.

But I suppose time will tell if WestJet’s CA is really superior. We’ll get a firsthand taste of both, but let’s not kid ourselves—most WestJet pilots will never know beyond the spoon-fed talking points from their leadership.

And yet, the irony is rich: you all whined and complained about the last contract, and now it’s suddenly superior ? You’re stuck in a goldfish bowl and don’t even realize it. For what it’s worth, WestJet is my eighth part 121 over a 34-year career. Trust me, there’s nothing remarkable there.

[cdnavater]

CA, or not CA. We get to spend about 20 days home with the family a month on average, probably more in summer while still getting pay. I averaged about 6-8 days a month since I started. That is the essence of QOL

You know, super long turns is not a collective agreement QOL item, it is a function destination and pairing construction!
Those destinations will still be there and likely from most of the same departures, with socialized bidding, you may even hold some but this is NOT a westjet contract issue, it’s a company that sold and no longer exists issue.
I will suggest that WJ contract is superior in many if not most aspects and even if you brought the SunWing contract over to WJ(wasn’t happening) but even if it was possible and it happened, it would have zero impact on the amount of days you work, the flying is just different now because it’s mixed with a year round schedule.
You sound like the AC pilots who can’t accept the majority voted for a contract and refuse to move on! Your company, will no longer exist, if you can’t accept that maybe you should apply to the other leisure only operator!

Ah, the eternal Canadian love affair with collective agreements and unions. It's baffling how you all cling to them so tightly, even when it's clear they’ve delivered some of the worst working conditions in aviation for the type of airlines you operate. How’s that working out for you?

For the record, I never brought up the CA. I was talking about Sunwing's better QOL. Let’s get down to brass tacks: how many days do you actually work in a month? How many legs? How long are your layovers? That’s what defines quality of life—not some arbitrary 200-page document filled with legalese.

But I suppose time will tell if WestJet’s CA is really superior. We’ll get a firsthand taste of both, but let’s not kid ourselves—most WestJet pilots will never know beyond the spoon-fed talking points from their leadership.

And yet, the irony is rich: you all whined and complained about the last contract, and now it’s suddenly superior ? You’re stuck in a goldfish bowl and don’t even realize it. For what it’s worth, WestJet is my eighth part 121 over a 34-year career. Trust me, there’s nothing remarkable there.

Ok, just focus on the part you seem stuck on, your 8th company no longer exists, this is either very bad timing or choices but the reality is the work you were doing is now owned by another entity who will staff it with the new airlines combines list and pairing construction!
It’s a done deal man, there is literally no point in complaining, maybe try your 9th airline out if you’re not happy!

[Handover]

You know, super long turns is not a collective agreement QOL item, it is a function destination and pairing construction!
Those destinations will still be there and likely from most of the same departures, with socialized bidding, you may even hold some but this is NOT a westjet contract issue, it’s a company that sold and no longer exists issue.
I will suggest that WJ contract is superior in many if not most aspects and even if you brought the SunWing contract over to WJ(wasn’t happening) but even if it was possible and it happened, it would have zero impact on the amount of days you work, the flying is just different now because it’s mixed with a year round schedule.
You sound like the AC pilots who can’t accept the majority voted for a contract and refuse to move on! Your company, will no longer exist, if you can’t accept that maybe you should apply to the other leisure only operator!

Ah, the eternal Canadian love affair with collective agreements and unions. It's baffling how you all cling to them so tightly, even when it's clear they’ve delivered some of the worst working conditions in aviation for the type of airlines you operate. How’s that working out for you?

For the record, I never brought up the CA. I was talking about Sunwing's better QOL. Let’s get down to brass tacks: how many days do you actually work in a month? How many legs? How long are your layovers? That’s what defines quality of life—not some arbitrary 200-page document filled with legalese.

But I suppose time will tell if WestJet’s CA is really superior. We’ll get a firsthand taste of both, but let’s not kid ourselves—most WestJet pilots will never know beyond the spoon-fed talking points from their leadership.

And yet, the irony is rich: you all whined and complained about the last contract, and now it’s suddenly superior ? You’re stuck in a goldfish bowl and don’t even realize it. For what it’s worth, WestJet is my eighth part 121 over a 34-year career. Trust me, there’s nothing remarkable there.

Ok, just focus on the part you seem stuck on, your 8th company no longer exists, this is either very bad timing or choices but the reality is the work you were doing is now owned by another entity who will staff it with the new airlines combines list and pairing construction!
It’s a done deal man, there is literally no point in complaining, maybe try your 9th airline out if you’re not happy!

Ah, the classic tactic of confusing critique with complaining. Let me set the record straight: never said I was unhappy or unaccepting, did I? Been through this rodeo before—it's not exactly rocket science to understand it is what it is.

The discussion, was about quality of life. I simply highlighted that WestJet isn't exactly a poster child for it either. Funny how those points remain conveniently unanswered. Instead, you decided to make assumptions about my emotional state—nice touch, but a textbook ad hominem move.

Shifting the argument from QOL to some imagined emotional turmoil? Bravo. Deflection at its finest. But let’s not get too comfortable ignoring the facts, shall we?

[cdnavater]

Ah, the eternal Canadian love affair with collective agreements and unions. It's baffling how you all cling to them so tightly, even when it's clear they’ve delivered some of the worst working conditions in aviation for the type of airlines you operate. How’s that working out for you?

For the record, I never brought up the CA. I was talking about Sunwing's better QOL. Let’s get down to brass tacks: how many days do you actually work in a month? How many legs? How long are your layovers? That’s what defines quality of life—not some arbitrary 200-page document filled with legalese.

But I suppose time will tell if WestJet’s CA is really superior. We’ll get a firsthand taste of both, but let’s not kid ourselves—most WestJet pilots will never know beyond the spoon-fed talking points from their leadership.

And yet, the irony is rich: you all whined and complained about the last contract, and now it’s suddenly superior ? You’re stuck in a goldfish bowl and don’t even realize it. For what it’s worth, WestJet is my eighth part 121 over a 34-year career. Trust me, there’s nothing remarkable there.

Ok, just focus on the part you seem stuck on, your 8th company no longer exists, this is either very bad timing or choices but the reality is the work you were doing is now owned by another entity who will staff it with the new airlines combines list and pairing construction!
It’s a done deal man, there is literally no point in complaining, maybe try your 9th airline out if you’re not happy!

Ah, the classic tactic of confusing critique with complaining. Let me set the record straight: never said I was unhappy or unaccepting, did I? Been through this rodeo before—it's not exactly rocket science to understand it is what it is.

The discussion, was about quality of life. I simply highlighted that WestJet isn't exactly a poster child for it either. Funny how those points remain conveniently unanswered. Instead, you decided to make assumptions about my emotional state—nice touch, but a textbook ad hominem move.

Shifting the argument from QOL to some imagined emotional turmoil? Bravo. Deflection at its finest. But let’s not get too comfortable ignoring the facts, shall we?

Last thing I’ll say in the AC thread about WJ/Sunwing, you might want to go back and read your posts, it sure comes across as complaining and I’m not the only reply that thinks that,

[Handover]

Last thing I’ll say in the AC thread about WJ/Sunwing, you might want to go back and read your posts, it sure comes across as complaining and I’m not the only reply that thinks that,

I went back and looked. I dont see any complaining at all. I'm.a foreigner so it is probably just a difference in speech. Or it could be just a Canadian way of looking at the world. Oh wait, was that a complaint, or an observation..

[cdnavater]

Ok, last last thing, what part of below copy and paste is not complaining, just critiquing? I suppose you just happen to be part of the 2% that’s not miserable, right?

“You could have joined Sunwing. Our quality of life was far superior to what is at WestJet. Then it was decided by AKPA that wasn't worth arguing for and now we have your quality of life which probably near on 98% of Sunwing pilots are miserable about. Did I see you voicing quality of life preference during the whole merger?”

[altiplano]

It doesn't come across to me as complaining.

Maybe just statement of fact or one's perspective.

What does come across as complaining are your semantics and carrying on about it. Just let it go.

You don't work at WestJet, you don't work at Sunwing, you don't work at AC. so why are you in an AC thread that is hijacked with discussion of WestJet and Sunwing lifestyle?

[cdnavater]

It doesn't come across to me as complaining.

Maybe just statement of fact or one's perspective.

What does come across as complaining are your semantics and carrying on about it. Just let it go.

You don't work at WestJet, you don't work at Sunwing, you don't work at AC. so why are you in an AC thread that is hijacked with discussion of WestJet and Sunwing lifestyle?

Ummm, cause it’s a public forum!