So how actually is at the other side of the fence?

[lownslow]

How about, don’t accept the job until they give a livable wage, stay where you are until they fix it!

That kind of martyrdom doesn’t work unless 100% of candidates are on board. 100% of candidates will not be on board.

[altiplano]

Except it's true... as a percentage that's where the largest gains were. And look who voted for it. The largest voting block was flat pay pilots.

That aside, my point is, do you think shitting on me changes it? Do you think tearing apart the MEC and ALPA changes it?

There's only one way to change it and it's based on your behaviour and the behaviour you will accept from your colleagues as we are already only a year away from the lead up to a contract year. Even now though, I can't believe how many people are lined up for VO and short call and seat fills or whatever... How many people are company sucks. I'm sure you're answering that juicy draft call. Everyone seems to... Even as the company reneges on brand new language, even as they continue to produce shit pairing packages, even as they continue to screw with our lives through their crew scheduling department.

The company is the problem. That's where you should direct your blame. They dig in. They don't think you're worth it. They light the burning platform. MS, KI, KS, BL, JC... All the pilot managers, and their friends that defend them - "He's a pilot's pilot, blah blah blah." Bullshit. Maybe you're the problem a little bit too, I mean you came here to work for this. Are you a masochist?

It's an oppositional relationship. I suggest you figure out for better or worse who is on your side and treat it that way. Stop helping. Stop doing other people's jobs. Stop going in for anything extra. Book off.

These guys are using you and laughing their asses off that you're still tearing down the people that are actually representing you unlike the last batch that just hung out with them at Leafs games and spent your dues on $1000 bottles of wine.

[co-joe]

Instant gratification, that’s what some of the new hires are looking for. Great schedule, great pay from the onset.

I’ve yet to meet anyone that has put in 5-10 years and are regretting they came to AC.

It could just be that 5 years is how long Stockholm syndrome takes to set in...

[thepoors]

These guys are using you and laughing their asses off that you're still tearing down the people that are actually representing you unlike the last batch that just hung out with them at Leafs games and spent your dues on $1000 bottles of wine.

The people "actually representing" us chose to ignore a 98% strike mandate at the 11th hour, approved the TA and then said vote it in or get fucked. Great representation there. They are no better than management, in fact, in many ways they are worse. They are liars and frauds. At least with AC management, what you see is what you get.

It's an oppositional relationship. I suggest you figure out for better or worse who is on your side and treat it that way. Stop helping. Stop doing other people's jobs. Stop going in for anything extra. Book off.

You are absolutely correct on this however.

[altiplano]

The executive couldn't handle the pressure. They screwed up.

I was disappointed in what happened.

That doesn't make them liars and frauds though. Continuing on your path of shitting on everyone doesn't change anything and brings us down going forward.

I suggest that you direct your hate at the company. That's ultimately the one that wouldn't deliver and threatened to toss the whole deal before strike notice was even delivered.

[Blueontop]

The executive couldn't handle the pressure. They screwed up.

I was disappointed in what happened.

That doesn't make them liars and frauds though. Continuing on your path of shitting on everyone doesn't change anything and brings us down going forward.

I suggest that you direct your hate at the company. That's ultimately the one that wouldn't deliver and threatened to toss the whole deal before strike notice was even delivered.

You got something to elaborate on this or are you just guessing? If it the former than I can forgive that but step down immediately and let someone who can handle the pressure lead, if the latter then don’t post something that sounds factual when it’s just a guess

[altiplano]

I'll post what I think and believe based on my judgement, thanks. I don't see you calling out people calling ALPA and the MEC corrupt and frauds...

I spoke with many of them and make my own read, of course it's subjective, but I think it's apparent from what happened.

The company lit the burning platform to raise the pressure earlier than expected, the guys were scared that they were going to screw up and lose the whole deal for the membership. All the good work to that point gone.

It's incredibly difficult to blow up $1.9B with faith that you will get it back. I don't call them traitors or frauds for flinching. But I do think it was a screw up not to walk out when the company pulled this.

But once again you miss the broader point...

That it doesn't matter.
It's done.

I suggest that you point your guns at the company and act like you're pissed that THEY didn't deliver the deal you wanted. Our guys tried, they failed. That failure is largely due to THE COMPANY THAT UNDERVALUES YOU AND TREATS YOU WITH DISRESPECT.

Why are you continuing to help them? Answering your phone? Extending? Rushing to your gate? Not booking off fatigued when they put you in a shitty hotel room? Pushing without your cold breakfast boarded? And the big one - tearing down the only group that has represented this pilot group in 20 years (with the exception of JMB & PS).

They just love it... AC pilots ARE pussies.

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

I'll post what I think and believe based on my judgement, thanks. I don't see you calling out people calling ALPA and the MEC corrupt and frauds...

I spoke with many of them and make my own read, of course it's subjective, but I think it's apparent from what happened.

The company lit the burning platform to raise the pressure earlier than expected, the guys were scared that they were going to screw up and lose the whole deal for the membership. All the good work to that point gone.

It's incredibly difficult to blow up $1.9B with faith that you will get it back. I don't call them traitors or frauds for flinching. But I do think it was a screw up not to walk out when the company pulled this.

But once again you miss the broader point...

That it doesn't matter.
It's done.

I suggest that you point your guns at the company and act like you're pissed that THEY didn't deliver the deal you wanted. Our guys tried, they failed. That failure is largely due to THE COMPANY THAT UNDERVALUES YOU AND TREATS YOU WITH DISRESPECT.

Why are you continuing to help them? Answering your phone? Extending? Rushing to your gate? Not booking off fatigued when they put you in a shitty hotel room? Pushing without your cold breakfast boarded? And the big one - tearing down the only group that has represented this pilot group in 20 years (with the exception of JMB & PS).

They just love it... AC pilots ARE pussies.

The thing is...AC pilots were not the pussies on September 14th. They were ready to go. It was the majority of the MEC and in particular the MEC Chair & Vice that turtled. Their strategy was to buckle at their perceived "best moment". That was clear.

And I'm sorry...being hard on the MEC is not turning guns inwards. It's called Accountability. No one is immune from it. Especially from the organization where members spend THOUSANDS a year in dues.

It is illegal to organize an avoid OT movement or other campaign to hurt the company. It was not illegal to strike September 17th. We had a moment to send a message. I guess we did...Just the wrong one...

[thepoors]

I'll post what I think and believe based on my judgement, thanks. I don't see you calling out people calling ALPA and the MEC corrupt and frauds...

I spoke with many of them and make my own read, of course it's subjective, but I think it's apparent from what happened.

The company lit the burning platform to raise the pressure earlier than expected, the guys were scared that they were going to screw up and lose the whole deal for the membership. All the good work to that point gone.

It's incredibly difficult to blow up $1.9B with faith that you will get it back. I don't call them traitors or frauds for flinching. But I do think it was a screw up not to walk out when the company pulled this.

But once again you miss the broader point...

That it doesn't matter.
It's done.

I suggest that you point your guns at the company and act like you're pissed that THEY didn't deliver the deal you wanted. Our guys tried, they failed. That failure is largely due to THE COMPANY THAT UNDERVALUES YOU AND TREATS YOU WITH DISRESPECT.

Why are you continuing to help them? Answering your phone? Extending? Rushing to your gate? Not booking off fatigued when they put you in a shitty hotel room? Pushing without your cold breakfast boarded? And the big one - tearing down the only group that has represented this pilot group in 20 years (with the exception of JMB & PS).

They just love it... AC pilots ARE pussies.

The thing is...AC pilots were not the pussies on September 14th. They were ready to go. It was the majority of the MEC and in particular the MEC Chair & Vice that turtled. Their strategy was to buckle at their perceived "best moment". That was clear.

And I'm sorry...being hard on the MEC is not turning guns inwards. It's called Accountability. No one is immune from it. Especially from the organization where members spend THOUSANDS a year in dues.

It is illegal to organize an avoid OT movement or other campaign to hurt the company. It was not illegal to strike September 17th. We had a moment to send a message. I guess we did...Just the wrong one...

Couldn't have said it better. There has been zero accountability from this MEC. They need to GTFO.

[30westpirate]

It is illegal to organize an avoid OT movement or other campaign to hurt the company. It was not illegal to strike September 17th. We had a moment to send a message. I guess we did...Just the wrong one...

You can see the biggest benefactors of opportunistic OT, a good majority of them were junior members (10 years or less). Usually the ones blocking their globe schedule.

[altiplano]

Could have voted No.

Could realize that flying your block and following the contract is what it takes.

Instead want to be told what to do it seems.

[Flyboy736]

It is illegal to organize an avoid OT movement or other campaign to hurt the company. It was not illegal to strike September 17th. We had a moment to send a message. I guess we did...Just the wrong one...

You can see the biggest benefactors of opportunistic OT, a good majority of them were junior members (10 years or less). Usually the ones blocking their globe schedule.

The biggest benefactors wre junior members (10 years or less)

Uhh you realize that these members under 11 years are over 2/3 of the pilot population? It's like saying the majority of the group had the majority of the overtime. Well yeah because they are the majority...

Personally I'd still be more cheesed off when someone 10 years + picks up overtime and clearly doesn't need it vs a new hire making ends meet. Not saying that justifies his actions (like knowingly accepting low pay and complaining about it) but it's easier to swallow morally vs the high income earner.

[altiplano]

Uhh you realize that these members under 11 years are over 2/3 of the pilot population? It's like saying the majority of the group had the majority of the overtime. Well yeah because they are the majority...

Right. That majority is who voted for and ensured this TA passed.

The juniors run the MEC and are the majority voting block that brought us this contract - and still we have are cries of how the junior group got screwed by senior pilots.

And take a look at the VO report all positions - awful lot of junior VO rock stars at the top of that list. Hogs at the trough like the rest of them...

[30westpirate]

It is illegal to organize an avoid OT movement or other campaign to hurt the company. It was not illegal to strike September 17th. We had a moment to send a message. I guess we did...Just the wrong one...

You can see the biggest benefactors of opportunistic OT, a good majority of them were junior members (10 years or less). Usually the ones blocking their globe schedule.

The biggest benefactors wre junior members (10 years or less)

Uhh you realize that these members under 11 years are over 2/3 of the pilot population? It's like saying the majority of the group had the majority of the overtime. Well yeah because they are the majority...

Personally I'd still be more cheesed off when someone 10 years + picks up overtime and clearly doesn't need it vs a new hire making ends meet. Not saying that justifies his actions (like knowingly accepting low pay and complaining about it) but it's easier to swallow morally vs the high income earner.

And it’s the seniors that passed on the VO for it to be swooped up by someone below.