Jeju Air

[co-joe]

The right TR appears to be unlocked the left one not so, one video looks like there is smoke coming from the right engine but nothing from the left. It has been suggested that the bird strike was on the right engine, but that possibly the crew shut down the wrong engine leading to the total loss of hydraulic A and B, and only partial power on the right engine necessitating the immediate flapless landing. Why they didn't bother to manually extend the gear or raise the speed brakes is a mystery.

That was my first thought and I will not be surprised if the investigation confirms it, a de facto double engine fail by shutting down the wrong engine.
What would surprise me is a transport category aircraft that loses all hydraulics in a double engine failure, is this true on the 37? No electric back up pumps? Or is it because there is no RAT?
If this is the case, why would the APU not be an approach item, I would want the APU running in the background for the entire flight but at the very least for the take off and landing phase!

No RAT, it uses the forward speed. Airbus has RAT.

No RAT needed on the NG, gear freefalls into position by opening a door in the floor and pulling 3 cords like a lawnmower pull cord, flaps can be extended electrically, one click of the switch would extend the LE devices partially lowering Vref a lot taking minimal attention, and the flight spoilers are control cable actuated with hydraulic assist so should have been able to be deployed. In the max the spoilers are hydraulic only, no cables, but this was an 800 NG so I'm pretty sure they were available. Also the reversers don't require hydraulic power to unlock, but they deploy much more slowly without it.

[albertdesalvo]

I believe there is an underpass. It's a service road between the end of 26L and the water. I can't remember for sure.

You can see it easily with Google Earth. As for the Korean disaster, you can also see with Google Earth that if the localizer berm hadn't been there, the aircraft would have hit the perimeter fence and gone over an embankment. It would certainly have been destroyed, berm or no berm.

[co-joe]

Not one engineered material arresting system in Canada. @120 installed in the US.

Where do airport fees go?

Strangely YEG has a type of EMAS installed now. They still have massive potholes on the ramp and taxiways, no LVOP, no MLAT, numenrous gates built in the 60's that can't be moved anymore, no PAPIs to half the runways, but they have EMAS between the two runways and a new overpass so you can get to the outlet mall easier...

[GyvAir]

Was the berm involved in this Halifax accident ever modified?
I suspect that without the dramatic video of the Jeju accident, there would be a lot less talk of the berm itself.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-rep ... h0004.html

[troisrivieres]

I just don't understand how the plane ended up landing downwind gear up?!

[Sulako]

I removed a whole whack of off-topic posts. Let's try to keep it on topic, mmmkay.

[cdnavater]

I just don't understand how the plane ended up landing downwind gear up?!

From some of the reported details, they ingested some birds in the right engine on approach to rwy 01, video evidence of that, they did a mayday call and went around and then came in on the opposite end for 19 with no gear or flaps. Leads to speculation of course, my first thought since the video of the crash shows the right engine producing a heat trail and reverser appears open, they possibly ingested birds in both engines and did an immediate teardrop return with partial power(my actual first thought was they shut down wrong engine) on the right engine. Can’t tell for sure but left engine reverser does not appear open.
Both boxes have been found, last I heard the CVR has been downloaded and the FDR has been sent to the US for download.

[newlygrounded]

I just don't understand how the plane ended up landing downwind gear up?!

From some of the reported details, they ingested some birds in the right engine on approach to rwy 01, video evidence of that, they did a mayday call and went around and then came in on the opposite end for 19 with no gear or flaps. Leads to speculation of course, my first thought since the video of the crash shows the right engine producing a heat trail and reverser appears open, they possibly ingested birds in both engines and did an immediate teardrop return with partial power(my actual first thought was they shut down wrong engine) on the right engine. Can’t tell for sure but left engine reverser does not appear open.
Both boxes have been found, last I heard the CVR has been downloaded and the FDR has been sent to the US for download.

I read the issue with the FDR was that the connector was broken, and they'll have to extract the data from the modules. Not sure why that would take months though if it wasn't damaged by corrosion

[Airbrake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... uiry-finds

Flight data and cockpit voice recorders on the Jeju Air plane that crashed in South Korea in December, killing 179 people, stopped recording about four minutes before the airliner hit a concrete structure at Muan airport, the transport ministry said.

Authorities investigating the disaster, the worst plane crash on South Korean soil, plan to analyse what caused the black boxes to stop recording, the ministry said.

The voice recorder was initially analysed in South Korea, and, when data was found to be missing, was then sent to a US National Transportation Safety Board laboratory, the ministry said.

The damaged flight data recorder was taken to the US for analysis in cooperation with the US safety regulator, the ministry said.

Jeju Air flight 7C2216, which departed the Thai capital, Bangkok, for Muan in south-western South Korea, belly-landed and overshot the regional airport’s runway, exploding into flames after hitting an embankment.

The pilots told air traffic control the aircraft had suffered a bird strike and declared an emergency about four minutes before it crashed. Two injured crew members, sitting in the tail section, were rescued.

Sim Jai-dong, a former transport ministry accident investigator, said the discovery of the missing data from the crucial final minutes was surprising and suggested all power including backup may have been cut, which is rare.

The transport ministry said other data was available and would be used in the investigation, which it said would be transparent, with information being shared with the victims’ families.

Some members of the victims’ families have said the ministry should not take the lead in the investigation, but that it should involve independent experts, including those recommended by the families.

The investigation of the crash has also focused on the embankment, which was designed to prop up the “localiser” system, used to assist aircraft landing, raising questions as to why it was built with such rigid material and so close to the end of the runway.

[Dry Guy]

Let the coverup begin. The Koreans deleted that data, I guarantee it.

[rookiepilot]

So like the AC plane that almost landed on the taxiway full of other jets in SFO had its data accidentally overwritten , right?

Oh, that must be different.

[Dry Guy]

No, that's normal operation of a CVR if you don't pull the circuit breaker and keep operating the aircraft after the incident.

[rookiepilot]

No, that's normal operation of a CVR if you don't pull the circuit breaker and keep operating the aircraft after the incident.

Hmmm. You just missed taking out three heavy jets by as low as what — 15 - 20 feet I believe — and figure its business as usual, routine GA, no one else might be interested in learning why?

Why it necessary in this day and age to ever have CVR data overwritten? How does that benefit safety? Why not have CVR data continuously uploaded to the cloud?

This obviously applies to this Korean accident too.

Privacy isn’t a valid argument.

[Dry Guy]

Please stay on topic. There are plenty of threads bashing Air Canada to vent in.

[pelmet]

No, that's normal operation of a CVR if you don't pull the circuit breaker and keep operating the aircraft after the incident.

Hmmm. You just missed taking out three heavy jets by as low as what — 15 - 20 feet I believe — and figure its business as usual, routine GA, no one else might be interested in learning why?

Why it necessary in this day and age to ever have CVR data overwritten? How does that benefit safety? Why not have CVR data continuously uploaded to the cloud?

This obviously applies to this Korean accident too.

Privacy isn’t a valid argument.

Too expensive for something that works most of the time now. 25 hour recording of CVR would be way less expensive.

[shamrock104]

if the gear was not put down because of the confusion on the flight deck the liability would be huge for this airline, missing data has got to raise some huge concerns.

[rookiepilot]

No, that's normal operation of a CVR if you don't pull the circuit breaker and keep operating the aircraft after the incident.

Hmmm. You just missed taking out three heavy jets by as low as what — 15 - 20 feet I believe — and figure its business as usual, routine GA, no one else might be interested in learning why?

Why it necessary in this day and age to ever have CVR data overwritten? How does that benefit safety? Why not have CVR data continuously uploaded to the cloud?

This obviously applies to this Korean accident too.

Privacy isn’t a valid argument.

Too expensive for something that works most of the time now. 25 hour recording of CVR would be way less expensive.

My crappy old 64 GB iPhone , I just looked it up, can store 290 hours of voice audio.
So why can’t we store 25 hours of voice and data on a CVR?

[Squaretail]

So why can’t we store 25 hours of voice and data on a CVR?

A different medium of storing data that prioritizes survivability over volume of data. If i remember correctly, these still use a metal tape. Mechanically they're still more similar to an 8track player than your iphone.

[Dias]

It could be 250 hours. If the data is nationally embarrassing it's still going to disappear.

[hst]

Let the coverup begin. The Koreans deleted that data, I guarantee it.

I guarantee you haven’t a clue what you are spouting off about. Have you worked in Korea? No chance, perhaps just clicking too many conspiracy links? ADS-B data coincidentally stopped at the same time. This is more a poor aircraft design (no battery backup of CVR/FDR) and a major electrical outage whether by malfunction or otherwise.

[7ECA]

Can anyone who actually has experience in the later series 737s, speak to the design and operation of the electrical and hydraulic systems in the event of a dual engine failure.

Assuming both engines are damaged/failing/failed after a birdstrike, how long are you going to maintain electrical power and hydraulics as the engine(s) spool down?

How long do you have before N2 drops below operating speed for the engine driven generator(s)?

Is there an automatic transfer switch that will revert solely to battery power, or is it a manual transfer?

How much power, be it voltage, engine speed, etc., is required to operate the hydraulics?

Would there, theoretically, be enough power to raise the gear and flaps on a balked landing post-bird strike but then not enough power to extend them if both engines packed it in?

How long does it take to get the APU started, stabilized, and online? Does it provide enough power to operate the hydraulic system(s)?

In normal operations, how are the CVR/FDR powered? In an emergency/electrical failure scenario, how would the CVR/FDR be powered - and would power to these systems be an automatic function or something that requires manual effort (or an override) or specific actions to maintain power to them?

[daedalusx]

Let the coverup begin. The Koreans deleted that data, I guarantee it.

I guarantee you haven’t a clue what you are spouting off about. Have you worked in Korea? No chance, perhaps just clicking too many conspiracy links? ADS-B data coincidentally stopped at the same time. This is more a poor aircraft design (no battery backup of CVR/FDR) and a major electrical outage whether by malfunction or otherwise.

This.
And I'm an unvaxxed conspiracytard but it's just obvious they lost power to both buses which could very well be due to the crew shutting down the wrong engine on the go around after the bird strikes.

[Reinhard]

I'm also an unvaxxed pureblood and leaning towards the shutting down wrong engine theory.

Video shows compressor stall happening on the right engine during go around. But when they're landing, the right engine is the only one that has exhaust heat coming out of it.

[planenuts]

Can anyone who actually has experience in the later series 737s, speak to the design and operation of the electrical and hydraulic systems in the event of a dual engine failure.

Assuming both engines are damaged/failing/failed after a birdstrike, how long are you going to maintain electrical power and hydraulics as the engine(s) spool down?

Electrically you will lose the IDG pretty quick...I don't know exact numbers but it doesn't come on line until your pretty close to idle. The hydraulics will operate almost as soon as you turn the engine. A windmilling engine has enough to operate the system...so it would be way below sub idle.

How long do you have before N2 drops below operating speed for the engine driven generator(s)?

Not much. It will pretty much drop out just below idle speed.

Is there an automatic transfer switch that will revert solely to battery power, or is it a manual transfer?

Yes - Standby electrical switching is automatic - you can also do it manually but the default setting is auto.

How much power, be it voltage, engine speed, etc., is required to operate the hydraulics?

You need one of the main busses powered so you need at least one generator on line. Either engine or APU

Would there, theoretically, be enough power to raise the gear and flaps on a balked landing post-bird strike but then not enough power to extend them if both engines packed it in?

Sure...as long as one generator was on line you could.

How long does it take to get the APU started, stabilized, and online? Does it provide enough power to operate the hydraulic system(s)?

About 60 secs or less.

In normal operations, how are the CVR/FDR powered? In an emergency/electrical failure scenario, how would the CVR/FDR be powered - and would power to these systems be an automatic function or something that requires manual effort (or an override) or specific actions to maintain power to them?

CVR and FDR are powered from the main bus - 2010 models and later have a RIPS (recorder independent power supply - a battery pack) for the CVR. pre-2010 models it's available as an option. Otherwise the recorders quit.

[Dias]

Here's a question for airline pilots. If you had to deadstick land an airliner, and you knew there was a concrete wall under the localizer, would you still aim for the runway?