Who Funds Medevac flights?

[rookiepilot]

Those online ER wait times aren’t accurate. Not even close to being accurate. Pure fantasy. Tell me without telling me you haven’t been to a GTA ER lately.

User fees are an incentive for everyone to take responsibility for their own health.

Health care costs are out of control, and even raising this issue results in rants of abuse and non factual attacks.

There are all kinds of solutions that would cut budgets.


Take self responsibility, for one. Yes, A hated concept in this country. One reason Why we suck.

But boy I was dumb to ever expect a rational conversation here , when the limit of peoples analysis ends defending their own government funded job. Just tax and borrow to pay for it, as long as it doesn’t affect me. LOL.

That’s the truth here and I get attacked for saying so.

Typical of the left, I can say so seeing as the previous poster brought up conservatives.

[rookiepilot]

I found some very useful resources that show the current live emergency and urgent care wait times, and I'm shocked to say that rookie has grossly exaggerated his claims in order to make an argument for depriving others of medical care. Here is the GTA: https://howlongwilliwait.com/ Metro Vancouver: https://www.edwaittimes.ca/ Alberta: https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/la ... ?locale=en As of the time of me posting this, the GTA ranges from 43 minutes to 5 hours, with the vast majority being under 3 hours, and a third of them being under 2. Metro Vancouver ranges from 47 minutes to 6 hours, with the average being around 3. Calgary ranges from 45 minutes to 3 hours, and Edmonton is 2 to 3 hours. But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good emotional rant. What is it that conservatives always say about feelings?

I Checked.

Most of the GTA doesn’t even list a wait time. That isn’t because its good.

Children’s hospital in Ottawa is 14 hours, BTW. Seen that, and more.

Lets turn this around, since someone else chose to drop the paediatric cancer card.

How’d you like to live in Ottawa or Toronto, then wait 14 hours to be seen with your kid who has cancer, because a medevac or ambulance with a far less serious issue went to the front of the line. Or several of them. Seen it happen.

Yeah — that happens — so the ambulance or medevac crew can legally be cut loose and leave.

That is a real thing and thats F—-d up.

[7ECA]

Lets turn this around, since someone else chose to drop the paediatric cancer card.

How’d you like to live in Ottawa or Toronto, then wait 14 hours to be seen with your kid who has cancer, because a medevac or ambulance with a far less serious issue went to the front of the line. Or several of them. Seen it happen.

Yeah — that happens — so the ambulance or medevac crew can legally be cut loose and leave.

That is a real thing and thats F—-d up.

Being that you brought it up again, my response was to state that there's more to it than a purely emotional argument. That and you are by no means the only person who can play that card, or any other supposed trump card...

Just because a "medevac" came in, doesn't mean that that patient gets priority. Every patient coming in is triaged, including transfers. You as a parent can believe that your child, or as a spouse that your partner, etc., etc., is being "bumped" by less serious patients. You are entitled to that belief. But it is simply not the case. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, nor do you have any right to know why you (or your family member) is being made to wait while other patient(s) are prioritized. Yes, it sucks having to wait, or watching your family member(s) wait. Everyone knows that.

This is like the idea mistaken assumption that 'if I call an ambulance, I'll get seen sooner'. Nope, not how it works. You'll get to the hospital, and still end up being triaged well down the list because resources are finite and they need to be prioritized to deal with patients that are in need of rapid intervention.

The idea, though, that the solution to the issue of delays and triaging is user fees or otherwise dual streaming the medical system so that the affluent can pay to have their ailments prioritized is a fallacy. If resources are directed towards a pay per use medical system, ultimately it will be the people who cannot afford to pay out of pocket who will suffer the consequences as resources are diverted away from the universal system. Money talks, and staff will leave to go to higher paying privately funded clinics/hospitals leaving an already short staffed and struggling system teetering on the brink.

And yes, crews often times do get stuck on offload delays for potentially hours as additional calls stack up. But, there are protocols in place to offload patients into the care of hospital staff prior to bed(s) being available. Doing so creates additional headaches and burdens for ER staff, but it frees up ambulances/crews. Pick your poison.

[rookiepilot]

So a 5 year old with cancer in Northern Ontario shouldn't have access to the same quality of treatment kids in the south do? Honestly dude shut the @#$! up, I pray you never need a Medevac. Just be happy they are there.

7ECA
I didn’t bring up children’s cancer first. This poster did.

[rookiepilot]

Now disclosure. I am strongly in favour of user fees in Canada — for each doctor visit, more for a specialist, and even more for an ER visit, and hospital stays. User fees for prescriptions (higher)

User Fees do not mean the patient pays the whole cost.

I did not say that back to my original post.

What is the issue with 20 bucks for every visit to a family DR, 50 for a specialist, 100 to go to the ER. Ect, ect.

The goal is to have users appreciate the costs involved and make a modest contribution, and it changes behaviour — take care of your own health better.

The truly poor can claim that back on their income tax return.

Everything free is abused. Its factual and has been proven by studies countless times over.

2. WHY can’t we have nurse practitioners— highly experienced nurses — make simple diagnosis, and pharmacists write prescriptions. Does everyone need to get on an airplane or ambulance and visit a doctor or ER farther away?

We have awesome video conference technology too, for people in the north for consultations.

[7ECA]

What is the issue with 20 bucks for every visit to a family DR, 50 for a specialist, 100 to go to the ER. Ect, ect.

The goal is to have users appreciate the costs involved and make a modest contribution, and it changes behaviour — take care of your own health better.

Because these so-called improvements or user fees don't incentivize people to change their behaviour in the way you believe it does. Take for example Search and Rescue (SAR). In Canada SAR is free, due to the fact that it has been widely shown that in jurisdictions where there is a user fee for SAR, people will avoid using it or even hide if it has been activated rather than staying put when lost/injured and being rescued.

In the US where there are user fees (and massive amounts of medical debt and bankruptcies) people avoid going to the doctor or the ER, etc., when ailments are minor due to the costs involved. Then, instead of having a minor issue taken care of more proactively, you end up with major illnesses, chronic conditions, and massive costs and burdens upon the healthcare system.

Hardly a shining example worthy of following...

[kgb531]

Freedumb?

I’m curious about something, in a climate of ever increasing deficits and taxes.

If I need an ambulance the 10 blocks to my nearest hospital, I get a bill.

If I travel overseas and need medevac, I pay. (Or buy insurance)

Medevacs in Canada — when I surf Flightradar 24, they are everywhere, it seems. Big business.

Who pays? Does it make sense? Why so many? Cause operating twin turboprops and helicopters ain’t cheap.

Now disclosure. I am strongly in favour of user fees in Canada — for each doctor visit, more for a specialist, and even more for an ER visit, and hospital stays. User fees for prescriptions (higher)

Motivate people to take care of their own health.

Use a government service, get a bill, ie, Toll roads, raise parking fees, privatize many service deliveries, cut taxes. For starters. Would fix the budget.

[Bede]

But boy I was dumb to ever expect a rational conversation here , when the limit of peoples analysis ends defending their own government funded job. Just tax and borrow to pay for it, as long as it doesn’t affect me. LOL.

That’s the truth here and I get attacked for saying so.

Sorry, but you started this thread knowing full well the answer to your own question.

You, once again, kicked a hornets nest and then complain when you get stung and attribute it to the "woke" or whatever.

I've done medevacs. Some patients are critically ill. Some are not, but are flown out as a precaution. Some are sick because of their poor life choices. And some just want a free vacation in a bigger town. But, rightly or wrongly, our society has decided that having tax revenues pay for these medevacs is preferable to the risk of excess people dying to save an amount that equates to a fraction of 1% of our tax revenues.

[rookiepilot]

But boy I was dumb to ever expect a rational conversation here , when the limit of peoples analysis ends defending their own government funded job. Just tax and borrow to pay for it, as long as it doesn’t affect me. LOL.

That’s the truth here and I get attacked for saying so.

Sorry, but you started this thread knowing full well the answer to your own question.

You, once again, kicked a hornets nest and then complain when you get stung and attribute it to the "woke" or whatever.

I've done medevacs. Some patients are critically ill. Some are not, but are flown out as a precaution. Some are sick because of their poor life choices. And some just want a free vacation in a bigger town. But, rightly or wrongly, our society has decided that having tax revenues pay for these medevacs is preferable to the risk of excess people dying to save an amount that equates to a fraction of 1% of our tax revenues.

I expect people to have rational dialog that extends beyond their own immediate self interest. Thats the part I am blindly naive. Remember “what can I do for my country “?

There are actually possible outcomes and solutions between the 2 emotional extremes you paint.

And I wouldn’t have started the thread if the system was functioning in the first place. It is not.

[Stratopaused]

You said this:

now ignoring this thread

and then posted five more times, so it's hard to believe that you've written anything with any sincerity.

Tell me without telling me you haven’t been to a GTA ER lately.

No, I haven't, because I don't live in Ontario. You do know that a lot of people in this country live outside the GTA, right? Oh, no, that's what results in people needing medevacs in the first place.

Anyway, I've taken my kids to the ER a couple of times in the last few years, and both times we didn't wait more than half an hour for comparatively minor issues. The last time I was in an ER in Ontario was two decades ago, and at that time I had to wait six hours to get treatment for a hairline fracture. The outrage! As I was sitting there, paramedics were wheeling in victims from a multi-vehicle car crash who were tended to immediately. Whose wait time should we count in that case? Was that unfair because I got there first and the hospital should have prioritized good customer service over medical treatment?

Take self responsibility, for one.

I should have told that to the teenage girl I transported who was accidentally electrocuted, or the guy whose car battery exploded in his face. Maybe if they had eaten more vegetables and gotten some exercise they wouldn't have needed a hospital visit. Should I have slipped their $20 fees out of their pockets while they were unconscious?

Children’s hospital in Ottawa is 14 hours

Cool. If we're cherry-picking stats, Alberta Children's Hospital and McMaster Children's Hospital waits are both an hour. What's your point?

How’d you like to live in Ottawa or Toronto, then wait 14 hours to be seen with your kid who has cancer, because a medevac or ambulance with a far less serious issue went to the front of the line.

First of all, why would you take a child with cancer to the ER instead of oncology? Second, if the child's life isn't in immediate danger and the ambulance is bringing in someone requiring urgent care, then of course the more serious case should be handled first. How do you know they had far less serious issues? Did you read their charts? Just because they were conscious and didn't have visible injuries doesn't mean they hadn't suffered an aneurism or internal bleeding.

The goal is to have users appreciate the costs involved and make a modest contribution, and it changes behaviour — take care of your own health better.

You're right. The guy who got his arm cut off in a vehicle roll-over would have thought better about getting that injury if he knew he was going to be charged $20 when he got to the hospital. He also should have eaten better and gotten some exercise. He probably did it on purpose to get his money's worth out of the socialist health care system.

WHY can’t we have nurse practitioners— highly experienced nurses — make simple diagnosis, and pharmacists write prescriptions.

We do. We can't have a serious conversation if you refuse to educate yourself about the most simple facts. Pharmacists have the ability to prescribe many drugs, depending on the province and territory: https://www.pharmacists.ca/cpha-ca/asse ... y23_EN.pdf Nurse practitioners are licenced in every province and territory: https://www.cna-aiic.ca/en/nursing/adva ... ctitioners

Your ignorance is not an argument for overturning the current system.

Does everyone need to get on an airplane or ambulance and visit a doctor or ER farther away?

This is a straw man. No, not "everyone" needs to get on an airplane or ambulance. Yes, many people live far from health facilities. In fact, even most hospitals don't have every method of treatment available, and sometimes patients need to be transferred between hospitals for specialized treatment, even to other provinces. I took plenty of patients from actual hospitals in the north, with doctors and nurses and everything , to bigger hospitals in the south that had better equipment and more experienced specialists. Even something like MRIs and CT scans have different levels of precision, and a patient may need to get a more precise exam in a different facility. I also took a patient to a specialized psychiatric hospital, of which there is only one in my province, so should we build hundreds of psych facilities to be in close proximity to all Canadians, or should we have just given that guy a bus ticket?

I expect people to have rational dialog that extends beyond their own immediate self interest.

And yet you're having emotional, defensive outbursts every time someone posts a rational response to your questions, so no, you don't actually want that. You're also basing your argument around falsehoods that can be debunked with ten seconds on Google.

Thats the part I am blindly naive. Remember “what can I do for my country “?

Ironic. A country is made up of the people who live in it, and doing things for our country is meant to be a way to improve the lives of its residents. Cutting services to save on taxes for finance "experts" with poor track records would generally not be considered doing something to benefit the country, and I doubt many medical patients are willing to sacrifice their well-being and refuse to go to the hospital in order to save the country money. I mean, you could set an example for all of us and not get treatment the next time you need it, for the greater good.

[rookiepilot]

Summary of comments.

Taking more responsibility = / somehow equates to embracing an American hard right system.

This is a compliment to Americans. Not us.

[Bingo Fuel]

User fees are an inconvenience to the rich, but a deterrent for the poor.

Claw it back on income taxes? You want MORE bureaucracy?

Advocate for a better system, not for hobbling the current one.

Let's build more hospitals. Train more doctors and nurses. That means investing in our Universities. Provide scholarships to those who can't afford the education. Tie it to a minimum length of service in the country. Provide incentives for working in remote areas.

[rookiepilot]

I guess not enough Canadians think like you. Many Canadians think all these services are free, and without hesitation would agree to more socialized services.

Clearly posters here do.

[rookiepilot]

[Everyone is entitled to the same level of care in this country, geographically that means aircraft are a necessity.

What you mean, is what has become a very popular rallying call for socialism “everyone is entitled to the same outcome in life, regardless of ones choices”

Look at the Soviet Union to see how well that ended up.

[cdnavater]

[Everyone is entitled to the same level of care in this country, geographically that means aircraft are a necessity.

What you mean, is what has become a very popular rallying call for socialism “everyone is entitled to the same outcome in life, regardless of ones choices”

Look at the Soviet Union to see how well that ended up.

Rookie, it’s not socialism to expect a system that every tax paying citizen pays into, provides the same level of care. The guy that lives in Grand rapids, Manitoba who makes 100k pays the same taxes as the guy living in Winnipeg making 100k.

[pelmet]

I think that a lot of medevac flights are paid by insurance companies bringing Canadians home from foreign countries.

I did medevacs up north for a while. I suspect with a fast growing population up there, the costs are going up quickly.

[goingnowherefast]

[Everyone is entitled to the same level of care in this country, geographically that means aircraft are a necessity.

What you mean, is what has become a very popular rallying call for socialism “everyone is entitled to the same outcome in life, regardless of ones choices”

Look at the Soviet Union to see how well that ended up.

Rookie, it’s not socialism to expect a system that every tax paying citizen pays into, provides the same level of care. The guy that lives in Grand rapids, Manitoba who makes 100k pays the same taxes as the guy living in Winnipeg making 100k.

By rookiespilot's logic, we should put debit/credit card machines in fire trucks too. Your house is on fire? Better swipe a card before we unroll a hose.

Lots of homeless people comment petty crimes in the fall. They get sentenced to 6-months in prison. They're fed, stay warm and get released in the spring. That sounds like abuse of the sysyem too. Perhaps we should be charging prison inmates for their costs?

Canadians, over history, have decided that health care, emergency services, most roads, basic education, and many other items should be socialized. If one doesn't like living in a country with socialized healthcare, move somewhere else.

Personally, I'd much rather pay a little more for healthcare services than I'll likely use via tax than I would to pay even more money to a whole health insurance industry, mostly to fatten their executive's wallets. Defend, deny, depose, right?

I did medevacs up north for a while. I suspect with a fast growing population up there, the costs are going up quickly.

This one is becoming a problem. Rapid population growth, but the tax revenue from the north isn't rising to cover the costs.

Its why we need projects like Ontario's ring of fire to be developed. Rapid growth of a population living largely in poverty? Here's work to help get that population out of poverty.

[khedrei]

What you mean, is what has become a very popular rallying call for socialism “everyone is entitled to the same outcome in life, regardless of ones choices”

Look at the Soviet Union to see how well that ended up.

Rookie, it’s not socialism to expect a system that every tax paying citizen pays into, provides the same level of care. The guy that lives in Grand rapids, Manitoba who makes 100k pays the same taxes as the guy living in Winnipeg making 100k.

By rookiespilot's logic, we should put debit/credit card machines in fire trucks too. Your house is on fire? Better swipe a card before we unroll a hose.

Lots of homeless people comment petty crimes in the fall. They get sentenced to 6-months in prison. They're fed, stay warm and get released in the spring. That sounds like abuse of the sysyem too. Perhaps we should be charging prison inmates for their costs?

Canadians, over history, have decided that health care, emergency services, most roads, basic education, and many other items should be socialized. If one doesn't like living in a country with socialized healthcare, move somewhere else.

Personally, I'd much rather pay a little more for healthcare services than I'll likely use via tax than I would to pay even more money to a whole health insurance industry, mostly to fatten their executive's wallets. Defend, deny, depose, right?

I did medevacs up north for a while. I suspect with a fast growing population up there, the costs are going up quickly.

This one is becoming a problem. Rapid population growth, but the tax revenue from the north isn't rising to cover the costs.

Its why we need projects like Ontario's ring of fire to be developed. Rapid growth of a population living largely in poverty? Here's work to help get that population out of poverty.

I don't think thats Rookie's logic at all. I'm pretty sure he even said that it should be somewhere in the middle between total socialism and taking responsibility. You are correct when you say that canadians have decided to pay more taxes and have these systems in place, so it seems like socialized health care is here to stay, at least until there is some huge shift, regardless of how innefficient and wasteful it currenty is.

I think he is advocating for people to stop using and taking things they don't need. Who could argue with that? The question is, how do we stop/discourage people from doing that? Surely the current fee system is there (at least in part) to discourage people to call ambulances if they don't need them. But those fees also help recover some costs. How much difference do they really make to the overall revenue and cost recovery, who really knows? They are certainly due for an increase though. I used an ambulance 20 years ago and I believe the cost is the same as it is now. The fee should be triple that.

Regarding wait times... I have visited an ER 4 times in the last 20 years. Twice for the first injury that propted the ambulance. The first time waiting 7 hours to get an xray and a sling. The second to figure out why I was so messed up from the pain meds they put me on and I had to wait so long that I left without being seen. The next was for stitches on my head. I waited over 6 hours to get 6 stitches even when I was bleeding through their bandages and onto the floor of the waiting room. When they finally got to me it took less than 5 minutes to stich me up. The last time was about 9 years ago, and it was actually pretty quick to dig something out of my eye. 2.5 hours. Record time. We seriously can't do any better than this for these minor issues that a nurse of doctor can take care of in 5-10 minutes? I'm glad the service was there, but it hasn't been worth what I've been paying in tax. Of course I know that when I get older, I may need the system more. That doesn't mean we can't try harder to cut the waste to ensure the system will exist when I get older and need it.

Our wonderful system will pay for a woman who is self concious about how small her chest is to get a breast augmentation, yet I have to pay to get my teeth maintained/repaired/filled, etc. I would argue one of those is essential to live a healthy life. I will let you guess which one. And don't get me started on the system paying to butcher a persons body because their brain is confused about what will make them happy.

I have heard FIRST HAND the kind of nonsense that comes in to our ER. Most people aren't aware of just how deep the glut of this system really goes.
People come in for paper cuts, sniffly nose, prescription renewal. The homeless come in for a few free hotel nights stays because they don't want to get off the dope and get a job. Oh, and the useless jobs.... I have heard first hand the nonsense useless jobs that fill our health care system not to mention the rest of our government. We have plenty of "administrators" who if they dissapeard tomorrow, not a single person would notice, and not nearly enough people who actually produce something. This government has increased the federal payroll by 40% yet the population has only increased 12%. Explain that one.

There has NEVER been a truly 100% communist country, but one thing is for sure, there is a line on socialism, that once it gets crossed, things get substantially worse. It has been tried time and time again and history will continue to repeat itself. Pure socialism doesn't work. After a certain point, the more socialist a government becomes, the worse things are for the people who live there. How close are we to that line? I don't know. But things are pretty bad for the average canadian right now. If you don't see it, then you aren't an average canadian and you aren't surrounded by average canadians. I would venture to guess most pilots working in the industry for a few years are not in that territory.

Eventually we will run out of money to pay for all this free stuff and I don't want to be living here when we do.

As for the medevac stuff it should be included because that is the system we have. But I would be in favour of a major system overhaul. User fees, cutting administrators, training more usefull staff, etc.

[rookiepilot]

I did medevacs up north for a while. I suspect with a fast growing population up there, the costs are going up quickly.

This one is becoming a problem. Rapid population growth, but the tax revenue from the north isn't rising to cover the costs.

Its why we need projects like Ontario's ring of fire to be developed. Rapid growth of a population living largely in poverty? Here's work to help get that population out of poverty.

Finally we’re getting somewhere. We want socialism to pay for everything, but nothing gets developed to pay for it. And our population is only getting older on balance.

Energy East? A freaking MAYOR said no.
Northern Gateway? Ditto. Special interest groups said no.
More LNG projects? Protests galore.

You guys voted for this crap, I remind you.

I have the resources to move to the US and get set up in a heartbeat. Piece of cake. I’m not gonna pay for incompetence forever. And many of my peers have. Or maybe Alberta should separate.

[khedrei]

I have the resources to move to the US and get set up in a heartbeat. Piece of cake. I’m not gonna pay for incompetence forever. And many of my peers have. Or maybe Alberta should separate.

Careful Rookie,

Cue the posters saying "then stop complaining and move to the US"

I'm also getting ready for a possible move south. Doesn't mean I wouldn't rather stay here and have this country go back to what it was 10 years ago, before the worse leader our country ever had was even a thought on anyones mind.

[rookiepilot]

I have the resources to move to the US and get set up in a heartbeat. Piece of cake. I’m not gonna pay for incompetence forever. And many of my peers have. Or maybe Alberta should separate.

Careful Rookie,

Cue the posters saying "then stop complaining and move to the US"

Yeah cause criticism just isn’t allowed. Bank accounts frozen, anyone?

Doesn’t sound like the country I love and grew up in. Does sound more like a few s-holes I have visited.

[goldeneagle]

Government = so I pay for it.

If I choose to live in a small town, far from services, why should I expect others to subsidize my life choices?

I expect people to have rational dialog that extends beyond their own immediate self interest. Thats the part I am blindly naive. Remember “what can I do for my country “?

Excuse me, didn't you start off the thread complaining 'why should I subsidize somebody who chooses to live elsewhere?' Why the change now after folks call you out on the inconsistencies?

As for your complaints about waiting at the ER, guess it depends where you live. I have had the unfortunate experience of visiting the local ER 3 times over the last 10 years, twice because family members needed service there, and once for myself. In those 3 visits, there was zero wait time for service. But all 3 cases were indeed 'urgent', maybe you are not aware of something, the ER is not a 'first come, first serve' kinda place. Patients are triaged and dealt with in order of urgency. Life threatening symptoms go to the front of the line, if there is a line.

Using my own trip as an example, wife was very similar, I arrived there at 0130, wife drove me in because I had all the symptoms of a cardiac arrest. Triage nurse put a bp monitor on my left arm, when it showed numbers she said 'that cant be right', put a different machine on the other arm. When it showed numbers, she said 'you are coming into the back' as she called for a wheelchair to take me back. Within a couple minutes there were 2 docs and 4 nurses around my bed in the trauma bay. Two hours later I was rolled up to the ICU, and when the helicopter arrived, up to the roof and into the Helijet machine I went for the flight to the big city. In the big city they put a stent in an artery, and by 1400 I was all fixed up. They kept me in the hospital for most of a week, then when discharged, I was on my own to find my way home.

Why transfer to the big city you ask, it's really simple. The equipment and specialists needed for the procedure are located there. It's unrealistic to keep those specialists on staff at the smaller locations, the procedure requires a level of expertise and proficiency that make it unrealistic. Even if the specialists were located in the outlying areas, they wouldn't do things often enough to remain proficient. In the big city, they do that procedure a dozen times a day.

As for the cost of flying in, I highly doubt you are subsidizing my access to the system. I've been firmly entrenched in the highest tax bracket for many years, that's a side effect of operating an engineering firm in the tech field for the last 25 years. I've put my fair share and then some into the kitty, and contrary to the feelings of many here, I dont begrude that at all. When I was in my early career, struggling to make ends meet as a young pilot, I appreciated that society had my back should I need serious medical attention. At the time, I wasn't contributing much to the kitty, but those at the top end of pay scales were making up the difference, something I was glad for. Today the tables are turned, and now it's my turn to 'pay it forward' for the generation coming behind me. We may grumble at times about the numbers when signing a tax return, but in the end, I actually feel like it's a privilege to send in a number bigger than the median income in this country. In all honesty, it doesn't affect our lifestyle at all, and it does make a huge difference for those who are struggling to get by. Our submissions fund hospitals, ambualances, roads, and a myriad of other services.

[goldeneagle]

Our wonderful system will pay for a woman who is self concious about how small her chest is to get a breast augmentation,

In which province would that procedure be covered by the provincial medical system ? It's certainly not covered where I live.

[khedrei]

Our wonderful system will pay for a woman who is self concious about how small her chest is to get a breast augmentation,

In which province would that procedure be covered by the provincial medical system ? It's certainly not covered where I live.

Looks like i misspoke.

I know a person who got one implant covered because her rib on one side was deformed and bothered her because her breasts were small. She had to pay for the other. I did mix the comment up with another commonwealth nation with a similar system that does give women this option if the aren't comfortable with the size of their chest.

But, Ontario does in fact completely fund breast construction/augmentation (as well as genital construction) surgery for MEN so I stand by everything I said with that caveat.

[rookiepilot]

Government = so I pay for it.

If I choose to live in a small town, far from services, why should I expect others to subsidize my life choices?

I expect people to have rational dialog that extends beyond their own immediate self interest. Thats the part I am blindly naive. Remember “what can I do for my country “?

Excuse me, didn't you start off the thread complaining 'why should I subsidize somebody who chooses to live elsewhere?' Why the change now after folks call you out on the inconsistencies?

As for your complaints about waiting at the ER, guess it depends where you live. I have had the unfortunate experience of visiting the local ER 3 times over the last 10 years, twice because family members needed service there, and once for myself. In those 3 visits, there was zero wait time for service. But all 3 cases were indeed 'urgent', maybe you are not aware of something, the ER is not a 'first come, first serve' kinda place. Patients are triaged and dealt with in order of urgency. Life threatening symptoms go to the front of the line, if there is a line.

Using my own trip as an example, wife was very similar, I arrived there at 0130, wife drove me in because I had all the symptoms of a cardiac arrest. Triage nurse put a bp monitor on my left arm, when it showed numbers she said 'that cant be right', put a different machine on the other arm. When it showed numbers, she said 'you are coming into the back' as she called for a wheelchair to take me back. Within a couple minutes there were 2 docs and 4 nurses around my bed in the trauma bay. Two hours later I was rolled up to the ICU, and when the helicopter arrived, up to the roof and into the Helijet machine I went for the flight to the big city. In the big city they put a stent in an artery, and by 1400 I was all fixed up. They kept me in the hospital for most of a week, then when discharged, I was on my own to find my way home.

Why transfer to the big city you ask, it's really simple. The equipment and specialists needed for the procedure are located there. It's unrealistic to keep those specialists on staff at the smaller locations, the procedure requires a level of expertise and proficiency that make it unrealistic. Even if the specialists were located in the outlying areas, they wouldn't do things often enough to remain proficient. In the big city, they do that procedure a dozen times a day.

As for the cost of flying in, I highly doubt you are subsidizing my access to the system. I've been firmly entrenched in the highest tax bracket for many years, that's a side effect of operating an engineering firm in the tech field for the last 25 years. I've put my fair share and then some into the kitty, and contrary to the feelings of many here, I dont begrude that at all. When I was in my early career, struggling to make ends meet as a young pilot, I appreciated that society had my back should I need serious medical attention. At the time, I wasn't contributing much to the kitty, but those at the top end of pay scales were making up the difference, something I was glad for. Today the tables are turned, and now it's my turn to 'pay it forward' for the generation coming behind me. We may grumble at times about the numbers when signing a tax return, but in the end, I actually feel like it's a privilege to send in a number bigger than the median income in this country. In all honesty, it doesn't affect our lifestyle at all, and it does make a huge difference for those who are struggling to get by. Our submissions fund hospitals, ambualances, roads, and a myriad of other services.

1: I know exactly how the ER system works. From necessity. Don’t be a patronizing ass.

2. I’ve been in the highest tax bracket longer than you. And surely long enough to comment on our deficiencies as a country.