Dash FO to captain upgrade time

[cjp]

Any words of YHU base for Porter ??

I was under the impression pilots in Montreal will operate both airports.

Writing that, I realize the complexity of releasing the parking brake at one and setting the parking brake at the other with a 1 hr Uber inbetween.

Hmmm. I know they expressed in the pilot calls that both airports are important to them, but how they will manage it is still up in the air.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Any words of YHU base for Porter ??

I was under the impression pilots in Montreal will operate both airports.

Writing that, I realize the complexity of releasing the parking brake at one and setting the parking brake at the other with a 1 hr Uber inbetween.

Hmmm. I know they expressed in the pilot calls that both airports are important to them, but how they will manage it is still up in the air.

Why is it any different than operating YTZ and YYZ? They're two different airports and will operated as such. If they're going to reposition you, you get in a car instead of a plane.

[cjp]

I didn't think of it like that.

[canadianfly]

My understanding is the DH at YHU and the E2 at YUL, but that's just me.

[Speedbrakes]

My understanding is the DH at YHU and the E2 at YUL, but that's just me.

The plan is to operate both types out of St. Hubert.

[Timetoflyagain]

Yes, and it’s easy to operate both types…simply some of the operating crews will be locally based and others not, no different than currently in every base. I can see a Q base out of YHU and E2’s out of YUL…why? Because all the current YUL pilots are E2 while any future Q “Montreal” pilots will be offered positions based on a YHU “place of work”. UBERing back and forth burns too much duty time and is simply unfeasible as a planned in-pairing event.

[yowflyer23]

With 1000TT and 500 hours on the E170 type, would it make more sense to join as an FO on the Q, upgrade to Q Capt and then transition to E2 Capt or would it make more sense to just wait a year until meeting E2 FO mins and skip the Q? I think I would quite enjoy the Q and I would like to get some transport PIC under my belt, but it’s hard to ignore that it’s the same pay as E2 FO. On the other hand, I know seniority is everything…
How long do FO’s sit on reserve on the Q before holding a line? i.e. how long would it realistically take to upgrade on the Q if one were lucky enough to be hired at the hiring mins? Also, are pilots still hired directly to a base on the Q or does everyone start in YTZ and have to pay for accommodations?

[dontcallmeshirley]

With 1000TT and 500 hours on the E170 type, would it make more sense to join as an FO on the Q, upgrade to Q Capt and then transition to E2 Capt or would it make more sense to just wait a year until meeting E2 FO mins and skip the Q? I think I would quite enjoy the Q and I would like to get some transport PIC under my belt, but it’s hard to ignore that it’s the same pay as E2 FO. On the other hand, I know seniority is everything…
How long do FO’s sit on reserve on the Q before holding a line? i.e. how long would it realistically take to upgrade on the Q if one were lucky enough to be hired at the hiring mins? Also, are pilots still hired directly to a base on the Q or does everyone start in YTZ and have to pay for accommodations?

Definitely better to join the Q. The FOs on the Q are flying less than 500 hours per year, so with your 705 time, you'll upgrade quick. There is an upgrade bonus too.

[skybluetrek]

With 1000TT and 500 hours on the E170 type, would it make more sense to join as an FO on the Q, upgrade to Q Capt and then transition to E2 Capt or would it make more sense to just wait a year until meeting E2 FO mins and skip the Q? I think I would quite enjoy the Q and I would like to get some transport PIC under my belt, but it’s hard to ignore that it’s the same pay as E2 FO. On the other hand, I know seniority is everything…
How long do FO’s sit on reserve on the Q before holding a line? i.e. how long would it realistically take to upgrade on the Q if one were lucky enough to be hired at the hiring mins? Also, are pilots still hired directly to a base on the Q or does everyone start in YTZ and have to pay for accommodations?

Definitely better to join the Q. The FOs on the Q are flying less than 500 hours per year, so with your 705 time, you'll upgrade quick. There is an upgrade bonus too.

Isn't 500 hrs on type a requirement though?

[IcePharaoh]

Isn't 500 hrs on type a requirement though?

From what I remember of their upgrade matrix yes. Perhaps a Porter pilot can confirm? Given the hours the Q FOs fly it might take a while to make that upgrade.
Also, does Porter count YOS on the E175 for the E2 starting pay like they do with the Q? If so that would be a reason to wait for E2 FO. Although I wonder if they wouldn't already take you on the E2 with those 500 hours on type?

[cdnavater]

With 1000TT and 500 hours on the E170 type, would it make more sense to join as an FO on the Q, upgrade to Q Capt and then transition to E2 Capt or would it make more sense to just wait a year until meeting E2 FO mins and skip the Q? I think I would quite enjoy the Q and I would like to get some transport PIC under my belt, but it’s hard to ignore that it’s the same pay as E2 FO. On the other hand, I know seniority is everything…
How long do FO’s sit on reserve on the Q before holding a line? i.e. how long would it realistically take to upgrade on the Q if one were lucky enough to be hired at the hiring mins? Also, are pilots still hired directly to a base on the Q or does everyone start in YTZ and have to pay for accommodations?

Definitely better to join the Q. The FOs on the Q are flying less than 500 hours per year, so with your 705 time, you'll upgrade quick. There is an upgrade bonus too.

Given the FOs(current) are flying 500 hours per year, a new FO would be on reserve for the first while depending on attrition so unless Porter is upgrading with 500 on type and 1500 TT and an ATPL in hand, this candidate likely doesn’t have what is needed for the ATPL even at 1500 TT, with those assumptions in mind, it’s going to be longer than a year for upgrade on the Q.
I would apply for the E2 and see what happens, can always amend to the Q program if that doesn’t work out, I would think 1000 with 500 on type and in house upgrades ongoing, this would likely get an interview for the E2, keep in mind my opinion is based on the industry and not Porter specifically.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Isn't 500 hrs on type a requirement though?

From what I remember of their upgrade matrix yes. Perhaps a Porter pilot can confirm? Given the hours the Q FOs fly it might take a while to make that upgrade.
Also, does Porter count YOS on the E175 for the E2 starting pay like they do with the Q? If so that would be a reason to wait for E2 FO. Although I wonder if they wouldn't already take you on the E2 with those 500 hours on type?

No, that’s only on the Q unfortunately. YOS is a thing missing at porter for sure. Even internally.

[CaptDukeNukem]

With 1000TT and 500 hours on the E170 type, would it make more sense to join as an FO on the Q, upgrade to Q Capt and then transition to E2 Capt or would it make more sense to just wait a year until meeting E2 FO mins and skip the Q? I think I would quite enjoy the Q and I would like to get some transport PIC under my belt, but it’s hard to ignore that it’s the same pay as E2 FO. On the other hand, I know seniority is everything…
How long do FO’s sit on reserve on the Q before holding a line? i.e. how long would it realistically take to upgrade on the Q if one were lucky enough to be hired at the hiring mins? Also, are pilots still hired directly to a base on the Q or does everyone start in YTZ and have to pay for accommodations?

Try applying as an e2 FO. Most E2 applicants don’t have 500 E1 hours. Plus the deluces love sticking it to AC whenever possible.

[dALre]

With 1000TT and 500 hours on the E170 type, would it make more sense to join as an FO on the Q, upgrade to Q Capt and then transition to E2 Capt or would it make more sense to just wait a year until meeting E2 FO mins and skip the Q? I think I would quite enjoy the Q and I would like to get some transport PIC under my belt, but it’s hard to ignore that it’s the same pay as E2 FO. On the other hand, I know seniority is everything…
How long do FO’s sit on reserve on the Q before holding a line? i.e. how long would it realistically take to upgrade on the Q if one were lucky enough to be hired at the hiring mins? Also, are pilots still hired directly to a base on the Q or does everyone start in YTZ and have to pay for accommodations?

I would stay away from Q. Very sluggish movement in Q side at Porter.

You'll have to sit tight till you can hold a line but consider a few factors of followings:
- Roughly over 120 FOs in Toronto alone
- 40-50% in seniority is where you will start to hold a line(varies in seasons)
- Porter is not adding more Qs so it's not likely those range is gonna move
- So you will have to sit considerably long in reserve waiting ppl to move on (or leave)
- But pilots in 40% of seniority and upwards are not likely gonna move (or leave. Whoever is going to leave has already left by that point)
- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet

The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

[dontcallmeshirley]

I would stay away from Q. Very sluggish movement in Q side at Porter.

You'll have to sit tight till you can hold a line but consider a few factors of followings:
- Roughly over 120 FOs in Toronto alone
- 40-50% in seniority is where you will start to hold a line(varies in seasons)
- Porter is not adding more Qs so it's not likely those range is gonna move
- So you will have to sit considerably long in reserve waiting ppl to move on (or leave)
- But pilots in 40% of seniority and upwards are not likely gonna move (or leave. Whoever is going to leave has already left by that point)
- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet

The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

Last bid award showed two years to upgrade. The slow upgrade momentum is because of the choice to take on so many FOs without the As written or the PIC time required for the ATPL.

[dALre]

I would stay away from Q. Very sluggish movement in Q side at Porter.

You'll have to sit tight till you can hold a line but consider a few factors of followings:
- Roughly over 120 FOs in Toronto alone
- 40-50% in seniority is where you will start to hold a line(varies in seasons)
- Porter is not adding more Qs so it's not likely those range is gonna move
- So you will have to sit considerably long in reserve waiting ppl to move on (or leave)
- But pilots in 40% of seniority and upwards are not likely gonna move (or leave. Whoever is going to leave has already left by that point)
- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet

The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

Last bid award showed two years to upgrade. The slow upgrade momentum is because of the choice to take on so many FOs without the As written or the PIC time required for the ATPL.

That is another thing to consider on the top of the fact that if Q CAs are not flowing to E2 then no spot to upgrade.
Not saying the flow is stopped but just slow btw

[cjp]

I would stay away from Q. Very sluggish movement in Q side at Porter.

You'll have to sit tight till you can hold a line but consider a few factors of followings:
- Roughly over 120 FOs in Toronto alone
- 40-50% in seniority is where you will start to hold a line(varies in seasons)
- Porter is not adding more Qs so it's not likely those range is gonna move
- So you will have to sit considerably long in reserve waiting ppl to move on (or leave)
- But pilots in 40% of seniority and upwards are not likely gonna move (or leave. Whoever is going to leave has already left by that point)
- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet

The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

Last bid award showed two years to upgrade. The slow upgrade momentum is because of the choice to take on so many FOs without the As written or the PIC time required for the ATPL.

That is another thing to consider on the top of the fact that if Q CAs are not flowing to E2 then no spot to upgrade.
Not saying the flow is stopped but just slow btw

The trick there, rather than waiting for Dash Capt to E2 Capt, bid E2 FO, and then after E2 line indoc, take next upgrade bid. I'm seeing lots of resitance in the online pilot calls to step right, but it likely will work out faster, and realistically not a dramatic shift in pay in the short term (Dash Capt to E2 FO).

By sitting right seat for a bit, the learning curve is a lot lower, and you have a chance to just absorb while someone else uses their experience to guide decision making.

To each their own though, as some will want to wait for bypass and just sit tight on the Dash, while others may be more excited to get going on the E2.

[goingnowherefast]

I would stay away from Q. Very sluggish movement in Q side at Porter.

You'll have to sit tight till you can hold a line but consider a few factors of followings:
- Roughly over 120 FOs in Toronto alone
- 40-50% in seniority is where you will start to hold a line(varies in seasons)
- Porter is not adding more Qs so it's not likely those range is gonna move
- So you will have to sit considerably long in reserve waiting ppl to move on (or leave)
- But pilots in 40% of seniority and upwards are not likely gonna move (or leave. Whoever is going to leave has already left by that point)
- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet

The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

Last bid award showed two years to upgrade. The slow upgrade momentum is because of the choice to take on so many FOs without the As written or the PIC time required for the ATPL.

If I understand what you're saying, the 2yr upgrade times are not due to seniority or a lack of positions? Anyone qualified and willing is upgraded as fast as they can be?

[cjp]

I would stay away from Q. Very sluggish movement in Q side at Porter.

You'll have to sit tight till you can hold a line but consider a few factors of followings:
- Roughly over 120 FOs in Toronto alone
- 40-50% in seniority is where you will start to hold a line(varies in seasons)
- Porter is not adding more Qs so it's not likely those range is gonna move
- So you will have to sit considerably long in reserve waiting ppl to move on (or leave)
- But pilots in 40% of seniority and upwards are not likely gonna move (or leave. Whoever is going to leave has already left by that point)
- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet

The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

Last bid award showed two years to upgrade. The slow upgrade momentum is because of the choice to take on so many FOs without the As written or the PIC time required for the ATPL.

If I understand what you're saying, the 2yr upgrade times are not due to seniority or a lack of positions? Anyone qualified and willing is upgraded as fast as they can be?

It seems this is true as long you are already on the E2.

[skybluetrek]

With 1000TT and 500 hours on the E170 type, would it make more sense to join as an FO on the Q, upgrade to Q Capt and then transition to E2 Capt or would it make more sense to just wait a year until meeting E2 FO mins and skip the Q? I think I would quite enjoy the Q and I would like to get some transport PIC under my belt, but it’s hard to ignore that it’s the same pay as E2 FO. On the other hand, I know seniority is everything…
How long do FO’s sit on reserve on the Q before holding a line? i.e. how long would it realistically take to upgrade on the Q if one were lucky enough to be hired at the hiring mins? Also, are pilots still hired directly to a base on the Q or does everyone start in YTZ and have to pay for accommodations?

I would stay away from Q. Very sluggish movement in Q side at Porter.

You'll have to sit tight till you can hold a line but consider a few factors of followings:
- Roughly over 120 FOs in Toronto alone
- 40-50% in seniority is where you will start to hold a line(varies in seasons)
- Porter is not adding more Qs so it's not likely those range is gonna move
- So you will have to sit considerably long in reserve waiting ppl to move on (or leave)
- But pilots in 40% of seniority and upwards are not likely gonna move (or leave. Whoever is going to leave has already left by that point)
- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet

The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

How come they're looking for Q captains? Why aren't more F/Os getting upgraded?

[cjp]

With 1000TT and 500 hours on the E170 type, would it make more sense to join as an FO on the Q, upgrade to Q Capt and then transition to E2 Capt or would it make more sense to just wait a year until meeting E2 FO mins and skip the Q? I think I would quite enjoy the Q and I would like to get some transport PIC under my belt, but it’s hard to ignore that it’s the same pay as E2 FO. On the other hand, I know seniority is everything…
How long do FO’s sit on reserve on the Q before holding a line? i.e. how long would it realistically take to upgrade on the Q if one were lucky enough to be hired at the hiring mins? Also, are pilots still hired directly to a base on the Q or does everyone start in YTZ and have to pay for accommodations?

I would stay away from Q. Very sluggish movement in Q side at Porter.

You'll have to sit tight till you can hold a line but consider a few factors of followings:
- Roughly over 120 FOs in Toronto alone
- 40-50% in seniority is where you will start to hold a line(varies in seasons)
- Porter is not adding more Qs so it's not likely those range is gonna move
- So you will have to sit considerably long in reserve waiting ppl to move on (or leave)
- But pilots in 40% of seniority and upwards are not likely gonna move (or leave. Whoever is going to leave has already left by that point)
- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet

The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

How come they're looking for Q captains? Why aren't more F/Os getting upgraded?

Internal Dash FOs likely don't meet upgrade matrices, yet. Dash 8 has a more risky operation setup, with island operations and higher upgrade requirements. It's easier for them to just step into the jet.

[fliter]

- Not enough flows of Q CA to E2 CA therefore not enough flows within Q fleet
The Q pipeline is packed for you to choose Q over E2.

What? No, it's literally the opposite: not enough flow within the Q fleet because no one is interested in or eligible to upgrade -> not enough flow to the E2 (because they are already very short Captains on the Q and can't afford to lose any more if they aren't replaced). The company wants Q FOs to upgrade, that's what allows them to actually flow Q CAs to the jet. So Q upgrade should still be easily available to anyone who meets the upgrade requirements (2500 TT, 500 on type), and those can be waived subject to a successful interview (which is more of an HR/CRM type interview and isn't too complicated). Obviously, don't expect to be upgraded before the ink dries on your ATPL, but people have upgraded with, say, 2200-2300 hours and a 300-400 on type, if they have proven themselves otherwise (good sim performance, no eyebrow-raising line flying etc.)

Now, getting from the Q to the E2 is another story altogether. For starters there is a 2-year fleet lock for new hires, but I wouldn't count on being able to move as soon as the two years are up. I suspect right seat E2 to left seat E2 would be a faster path.

[fliter]

Internal Dash FOs likely don't meet upgrade matrices, yet. Dash 8 has a more risky operation setup, with island operations and higher upgrade requirements. It's easier for them to just step into the jet.

Not only is sidestepping to the jet easier, it likely offers a quicker progression to the left seat of the E2, at least it looks like that at the moment. Sure, they will need to warm that right seat of the E2 for a bit before upgrading, but while doing so they will be getting paid almost as much as a Q Captain, minus all the headache of ultimate responsibility and being overworked (Q CAs have been working a lot for quite some time now, being in short supply).

[ONCastor]

Friend of mine told me that he heard a few people upgraded with less than 1900tt, and 400 on type

[CaptDukeNukem]

There’s also the Q4 FO to Q4 CA to E2 FO to E2 captain route that no one has really discussed. If you’re low time hire, this may be a pretty comfortable way to go.

Your seniority number is there. Why not take the extra year or two and make it easier?