I recently started training and will be doing my first solo soon! My goal is to become an airline pilot, and I’ve researched the requirements and steps to get there. After earning my CPL, followed by Multi-Engine and Instrument ratings, do I need to build hours first before obtaining an ATPL, or should I get a frozen ATPL (which demonstrates ATP-level knowledge but lacks the required flight hours)? From what I understand, the frozen ATPL is mainly beneficial for those in integrated programs, but since I’m a full-time, self-paced student, I’ll likely progress at the same speed or even faster. Most of the feedback I’ve found online about the frozen ATPL is negative, but it’s from several years ago.
Congrats on almost reaching your first solo. It is the first of many major milestones you will celebrate throughout the process.
Your question about building hours before acquiring an ATPL is a good one, and should certainly be discussed with your flight instructor. The basic process is CPL at about 200hrs. Fly more. At 250hrs, you can write the IATRA (2 crew test). Fly more. At 750hrs, you can write the ATPL exams (SAMRA and SARON). Fly more. At 1500hrs, providing you have the minimum requirements for the ATPL (Night PIC XC is a big one), you send your application to TC and they send you a sticker for your blue book with ATPL(A) on it.
The "frozen ATPL" is neither a positive or negative thing in terms of career progression. The negative sentiment usually originates from a lack of understanding. Some say that it's a cash grab for the training institution, or that it's a solution that may bypass the traditional way that other's before you have acquired their ATPL. It is really just a different way someone is able to structure their training and testing to ultimately reach the same goal.
From reading your post, there might be some confusion regarding the integrated programs and a "frozen ATPL". A frozen ATPL is the term given to the CPL after having been granted the ability to write the two ATPL exams while still only having very low time, I believe around 180hrs or so - normally you need 750hrs. The frozen part means that your written exams will be valid for 5 years instead of the standard 2 and you don't need to write the IATRA. The fATPL is a direct result of an integrated program, either self contained or in combination with some colleges or universities. This is not something that a self-paced flight school student can elect to do without being enrolled in one of the programs as there are certain requirements regarding the structure of the training plus a minimum of approx 760hrs of ground school.
The only issue that I personally see with the frozen ATPL is that Canadian operators don't really understand what it is. There is nothing that would set one apart from another with the same amount of total time and an IATRA written. The only time it seems to make sense is when it's through an airline sanctioned cadet program.
I was the first "graduate" at a flight school who started one of the first Integrated programs in Canada. The amount of knowledge gained was great, however I don't think that having a frozen ATPL was ever directly responsible for any of the jobs I got prior to converting to an ATPL.
The "Frozen ATPL" is a European program. It is offered by several major training facility with ties to major airlines. Candidates will graduate with a CPL MEIFR Multi Crew Coordination training course and a airbus or Boeing type rating and usually will have already been hired by an airline. As was noted in Canada integrated programs may have the option of letting you write the ATPL exams earlier and have them valid for 5 years vs the normal 2 year validity. All the other experience requirements are unchanged and so the practical benefit is minimal
If you do decide to go that route I would highly advise that you don't advertise you have a frozen ATPL at your first job interview as a 200 hr CPL. The mostly likely response would be a major eye roll and the thought that you think you are someone special just because you wrote 2 exams early. Don't believe the kool aid some schools are selling. You still have to gain experience like everyone else.
As mentioned above, the frozen ATPL does not exist in North America. What you think is a frozen ATPL is simply writing the exams early and you can only do that in an integrated college/university program. You will not be able to do that as a self paced student.
billgeno wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 9:13 am
Hi Christian,
Congrats on almost reaching your first solo. It is the first of many major milestones you will celebrate throughout the process.
Your question about building hours before acquiring an ATPL is a good one, and should certainly be discussed with your flight instructor. The basic process is CPL at about 200hrs. Fly more. At 250hrs, you can write the IATRA (2 crew test). Fly more. At 750hrs, you can write the ATPL exams (SAMRA and SARON). Fly more. At 1500hrs, providing you have the minimum requirements for the ATPL (Night PIC XC is a big one), you send your application to TC and they send you a sticker for your blue book with ATPL(A) on it.
The "frozen ATPL" is neither a positive or negative thing in terms of career progression. The negative sentiment usually originates from a lack of understanding. Some say that it's a cash grab for the training institution, or that it's a solution that may bypass the traditional way that other's before you have acquired their ATPL. It is really just a different way someone is able to structure their training and testing to ultimately reach the same goal.
From reading your post, there might be some confusion regarding the integrated programs and a "frozen ATPL". A frozen ATPL is the term given to the CPL after having been granted the ability to write the two ATPL exams while still only having very low time, I believe around 180hrs or so - normally you need 750hrs. The frozen part means that your written exams will be valid for 5 years instead of the standard 2 and you don't need to write the IATRA. The fATPL is a direct result of an integrated program, either self contained or in combination with some colleges or universities. This is not something that a self-paced flight school student can elect to do without being enrolled in one of the programs as there are certain requirements regarding the structure of the training plus a minimum of approx 760hrs of ground school.
The only issue that I personally see with the frozen ATPL is that Canadian operators don't really understand what it is. There is nothing that would set one apart from another with the same amount of total time and an IATRA written. The only time it seems to make sense is when it's through an airline sanctioned cadet program.
I was the first "graduate" at a flight school who started one of the first Integrated programs in Canada. The amount of knowledge gained was great, however I don't think that having a frozen ATPL was ever directly responsible for any of the jobs I got prior to converting to an ATPL.
Hopefully this answers your questions.
Bill
You should be careful when giving explanations like this. Canadian operators don't know what a frozen ATPL is because it doesn't exist. I have never seen "frozen ATPL" written in any TC documents. If it's there, please point me to it.
We should get this term out of Canadian aviation. It doesn't have any true meaning here.
khedrei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 1:10 pm
As mentioned above, the frozen ATPL does not exist in North America. What you think is a frozen ATPL is simply writing the exams early and you can only do that in an integrated college/university program. You will not be able to do that as a self paced student.
It's not an official license in Europe either. It means the same here as it means there.
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khedrei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 1:10 pm
As mentioned above, the frozen ATPL does not exist in North America. What you think is a frozen ATPL is simply writing the exams early and you can only do that in an integrated college/university program. You will not be able to do that as a self paced student.
It's not an official license in Europe either. It means the same here as it means there.
I thought that it was thing there. The schools and employers talk about it and advertise it like that?
My goal is to become an airline pilot, and I’ve researched the requirements and steps to get there. After earning my CPL, followed by Multi-Engine and Instrument ratings, do I need to build hours first before obtaining an ATPL, or should I get a frozen ATPL (which demonstrates ATP-level knowledge but lacks the required flight hours)? From what I understand, the frozen ATPL is mainly beneficial for those in integrated programs, but since I’m a full-time, self-paced student, I’ll likely progress at the same speed or even faster. Most of the feedback I’ve found online about the frozen ATPL is negative, but it’s from several years ago.
