Recall of MEC Chair & Vice Chair

[Man_in_the_sky]

You are correct, slight correction, it’s always 5% of a group that is problematic!
With regards to AC, because they were convinced they could have the moon and the stars but only got the moon, they think they were sold out!
This speaks to maturity and quite frankly common friggen sense, that’s how negations work! You want a 100million, they say the can only afford a neutral agreement, we will give this but take that and you meet somewhere in the middle!

Aren't you at Jazz on some crazy ass 17 yrs deal which is probably the most absurd thing I've ever heard from a labour contract perspective

Yes and how we got there has tons of history, given you just graduated high school, I wouldn’t expect you to understand!
I will say this, the long term contract gave us the stability to absorb our competitors that were created to put pressure on us, with 12 years remaining in the contract I got a 31% increase in my take home pay. The original negotiated amount was rumoured to be 42%, I expect the outcome of the CIRB ULP filling to remedy that.
You are way too young to be pondering these adult problems and I’m sure when you grow up you will hear many more absurd things, a 17 year labour agreement to a group that really had no leverage being low on the absurdity scale.

why would a ULP regarding hiring quotas not respected compensate senior captain? We know Claude is biased and isn't negociating for the group he's supposed to, but the CIRB won't bite

[Dry Guy]

Ok, let’s say they give the pilots 100mil, because, “they could afford it”.
How does that work with the next three groups negotiating with the company

Not my problem. I'm not negotiating for other groups.

[thepoors]

I will say this, the long term contract gave us the stability to absorb our competitors that were created to put pressure on us

How is that going for you pal ...or should I say PAL?

[thepoors]

Isn't she and he up for re-election anyway? Why the recall any specifics? Are they being charged under the ALPA constitution for something nefarious?
Why not just wait for the election to take place?
Seems unnecessary and damaging.

That's the point, they shouldn't be up for re-election at all. If they had any shame they would have resigned already.

[cdnavater]

I will say this, the long term contract gave us the stability to absorb our competitors that were created to put pressure on us

How is that going for you pal ...or should I say PAL?

Part of the ULP challenge!

[cdnavater]

Aren't you at Jazz on some crazy ass 17 yrs deal which is probably the most absurd thing I've ever heard from a labour contract perspective

Yes and how we got there has tons of history, given you just graduated high school, I wouldn’t expect you to understand!
I will say this, the long term contract gave us the stability to absorb our competitors that were created to put pressure on us, with 12 years remaining in the contract I got a 31% increase in my take home pay. The original negotiated amount was rumoured to be 42%, I expect the outcome of the CIRB ULP filling to remedy that.
You are way too young to be pondering these adult problems and I’m sure when you grow up you will hear many more absurd things, a 17 year labour agreement to a group that really had no leverage being low on the absurdity scale.

why would a ULP regarding hiring quotas not respected compensate senior captain? We know Claude is biased and isn't negociating for the group he's supposed to, but the CIRB won't bite

Because that’s only part of the ULP, the other part is that Jazz ALPA negotiated a TA with Jazz management, rumoured at 42% pay increase, that agreement was taken to a third party, AC who outright refused to agree to it and essentially ripped it up and what amounted to them sliding a piece of paper across the table of what they were willing to pay.
The problem with that is Jazz is our employer and AC should not have any say in what they pay us, Jazz agreed to the pay and should just be a formality. AC had control over our agreement which seems to have opened them up to the potential of being our employer but at the very least the original TA should be enforced, it was bargained in good faith between the union and their rightful employer.
Should have something later this month, hopefully not another delay!

[Man_in_the_sky]

Yes and how we got there has tons of history, given you just graduated high school, I wouldn’t expect you to understand!
I will say this, the long term contract gave us the stability to absorb our competitors that were created to put pressure on us, with 12 years remaining in the contract I got a 31% increase in my take home pay. The original negotiated amount was rumoured to be 42%, I expect the outcome of the CIRB ULP filling to remedy that.
You are way too young to be pondering these adult problems and I’m sure when you grow up you will hear many more absurd things, a 17 year labour agreement to a group that really had no leverage being low on the absurdity scale.

why would a ULP regarding hiring quotas not respected compensate senior captain? We know Claude is biased and isn't negociating for the group he's supposed to, but the CIRB won't bite

Because that’s only part of the ULP, the other part is that Jazz ALPA negotiated a TA with Jazz management, rumoured at 42% pay increase, that agreement was taken to a third party, AC who outright refused to agree to it and essentially ripped it up and what amounted to them sliding a piece of paper across the table of what they were willing to pay.
The problem with that is Jazz is our employer and AC should not have any say in what they pay us, Jazz agreed to the pay and should just be a formality. AC had control over our agreement which seems to have opened them up to the potential of being our employer but at the very least the original TA should be enforced, it was bargained in good faith between the union and their rightful employer.
Should have something later this month, hopefully not another delay!

there was no communication about 42%.. whatever you guys heard was covered by an NDA and will be considered as Hearsay. Still wish you good luck

[cdnavater]

why would a ULP regarding hiring quotas not respected compensate senior captain? We know Claude is biased and isn't negociating for the group he's supposed to, but the CIRB won't bite

Because that’s only part of the ULP, the other part is that Jazz ALPA negotiated a TA with Jazz management, rumoured at 42% pay increase, that agreement was taken to a third party, AC who outright refused to agree to it and essentially ripped it up and what amounted to them sliding a piece of paper across the table of what they were willing to pay.
The problem with that is Jazz is our employer and AC should not have any say in what they pay us, Jazz agreed to the pay and should just be a formality. AC had control over our agreement which seems to have opened them up to the potential of being our employer but at the very least the original TA should be enforced, it was bargained in good faith between the union and their rightful employer.
Should have something later this month, hopefully not another delay!

there was no communication about 42%.. whatever you guys heard was covered by an NDA and will be considered as Hearsay. Still wish you good luck

Thank you for the well wishes and of course I agree it was hearsay, that’s why I said it was rumoured at 42%.
I’m not expecting more than what was agreed to, I expect the outcome at the very least should be what was agreed to between Jazz and Jazz ALPA, AC not being our employer should not have been able to intervene to a point of outright refusing it. If they had that much say, it should have been before, ie; telling Jazz negotiators their max before it became a tentative agreement, we shall see!
As for the other contract violations, PAL and not honouring the flow, have not heard any thing regarding what that might look like but it would not be fair to say Claude is biased until we see the outcome. Of course his job is to protect Jazz pilots best interest but we also need to challenge every contract violation, otherwise what’s the point of having a contract!

[Tbayer2021]

Because that’s only part of the ULP, the other part is that Jazz ALPA negotiated a TA with Jazz management, rumoured at 42% pay increase, that agreement was taken to a third party, AC who outright refused to agree to it and essentially ripped it up and what amounted to them sliding a piece of paper across the table of what they were willing to pay.
The problem with that is Jazz is our employer and AC should not have any say in what they pay us, Jazz agreed to the pay and should just be a formality. AC had control over our agreement which seems to have opened them up to the potential of being our employer but at the very least the original TA should be enforced, it was bargained in good faith between the union and their rightful employer.
Should have something later this month, hopefully not another delay!

there was no communication about 42%.. whatever you guys heard was covered by an NDA and will be considered as Hearsay. Still wish you good luck

Thank you for the well wishes and of course I agree it was hearsay, that’s why I said it was rumoured at 42%.
I’m not expecting more than what was agreed to, I expect the outcome at the very least should be what was agreed to between Jazz and Jazz ALPA, AC not being our employer should not have been able to intervene to a point of outright refusing it. If they had that much say, it should have been before, ie; telling Jazz negotiators their max before it became a tentative agreement, we shall see!
As for the other contract violations, PAL and not honouring the flow, have not heard any thing regarding what that might look like but it would not be fair to say Claude is biased until we see the outcome. Of course his job is to protect Jazz pilots best interest but we also need to challenge every contract violation, otherwise what’s the point of having a contract!

You've mentioned your take home being 31% higher under the new deal a few times now. You've also mentioned that the initial deal between Jazz and its pilots was rumoured to be around 42%. Did you mean you expected the deal AC squashed to be 42% higher in take home? Because 31% higher take home probably translates to more than 42% pre tax at your tax bracket, no?

Honest question.

[hithere]

At AC the company has always paid 100% of the benefit premiums(health, dental , disability etc). Prior to the Aug 2023 bump, Jazz pilots shared the cost of premiums with the company which worked out to well over $1000/month after tax for Captains on a family plan, because of the aging demographics at Jazz.
With the 2023 agreements the company now effectively pay about 85% of the premiums which added a significant amount to the take home pay of pilots. In some cases, the increase in take home pay due to the reduction in premium payments was more than that received from the (before tax) hourly wage rate increase

[Tbayer2021]

At AC the company has always paid 100% of the benefit premiums(health, dental , disability etc). Prior to the Aug 2023 bump, Jazz pilots shared the cost of premiums with the company which worked out to well over $1000/month after tax for Captains on a family plan, because of the aging demographics at Jazz.
With the 2023 agreements the company now effectively pay about 85% of the premiums which added a significant amount to the take home pay of pilots. In some cases, the increase in take home pay due to the reduction in premium payments was more than that received from the (before tax) hourly wage rate increase

What if the reality turns out to be that Jazz only decided to cover those premiums after AC squashed the original deal? I wonder if the original deal was an uplift of around 42% like cdnavater has mentioned but those premiums were still covered by the pilots? Resulting in take home pay not increasing as much as it has?

[Mr. North]

This Chair and MEC have zero legitimacy after the TA sell job and "I'll quit" threats. Are these losers who threw in the towel at the critical moment really the people you want representing you in the next round of negots? Why would anyone believe anything they say? - "world class contract," "strike ready," "no penny left on the table," "let's f***ing get them" - all a bunch of lies and posturing with no spine to back it up. It's over. Their time is up and if they had any morals they would have voluntarily stepped down already.

Plus look at it from the company's pov: why would they take ALPA seriously if it's the same cucks who capitulated sitting at the negotiating table?

Could you do better? If not, fair enough, but do you know anyone who could and would step up to take on the role?

I agree this is a big problem. No one wants that job, so you get people who are ill equipped sitting in those positions. I don't know what the solution is but that's up to ALPA leadership to figure out, not me.

Thank you for proving my point. 100% criticism. Zero solutions or understanding how ALPA works.

The solutions you're looking for come from your peers stepping forward, volunteering their time, to improve the profession for all. Regarding the current MEC, I can assure you each one of them got involved because they wanted to make a positive change. And if you consider where we were 24 months ago, I think they did a tremendous job. They didn't sit around hurling endless insults on a forum, waiting for "big ALPA" to save them. They raised their hand and put in the work. You can be upset with the results, but to hurl anonymous insults only demonstrates your own cowardice and ignorance. Grow up.

[cdnavater]

there was no communication about 42%.. whatever you guys heard was covered by an NDA and will be considered as Hearsay. Still wish you good luck

Thank you for the well wishes and of course I agree it was hearsay, that’s why I said it was rumoured at 42%.
I’m not expecting more than what was agreed to, I expect the outcome at the very least should be what was agreed to between Jazz and Jazz ALPA, AC not being our employer should not have been able to intervene to a point of outright refusing it. If they had that much say, it should have been before, ie; telling Jazz negotiators their max before it became a tentative agreement, we shall see!
As for the other contract violations, PAL and not honouring the flow, have not heard any thing regarding what that might look like but it would not be fair to say Claude is biased until we see the outcome. Of course his job is to protect Jazz pilots best interest but we also need to challenge every contract violation, otherwise what’s the point of having a contract!

You've mentioned your take home being 31% higher under the new deal a few times now. You've also mentioned that the initial deal between Jazz and its pilots was rumoured to be around 42%. Did you mean you expected the deal AC squashed to be 42% higher in take home? Because 31% higher take home probably translates to more than 42% pre tax at your tax bracket, no?

Honest question.

Nobody really knows but the 42% was the original increase in pay, it was mentioned to me by a trusted colleague who was adamant the announcement was a 42% increase across the board. He swore the source was reliable which I took to mean someone who knows, what happened the next day was the announcement of Air Canada refusing our TA instead of the details of the TA.
What I don’t know is whether or not anything else changed after that, my 31% increase is based on a 26% pay and them paying the benefits now.
If it were a 42% increase on top of them paying the benefits, great, if not the increase of 42% takes me to 228.62 with a July 1 bump up to 233.20, based on pre TA scale, that’s a fairly substantial difference based on current 185.17, July 1 goes to 193.59. These are the new rates with the instructor bump, top scale line pilot this July is 175.99 and 107.58 for FO

[Dias]

Could Jazz pilots please bring their discussion to the Jazz forum?

[Hangry]

Could you do better? If not, fair enough, but do you know anyone who could and would step up to take on the role?

I agree this is a big problem. No one wants that job, so you get people who are ill equipped sitting in those positions. I don't know what the solution is but that's up to ALPA leadership to figure out, not me.

Thank you for proving my point. 100% criticism. Zero solutions or understanding how ALPA works.

The solutions you're looking for come from your peers stepping forward, volunteering their time, to improve the profession for all. Regarding the current MEC, I can assure you each one of them got involved because they wanted to make a positive change. And if you consider where we were 24 months ago, I think they did a tremendous job. They didn't sit around hurling endless insults on a forum, waiting for "big ALPA" to save them. They raised their hand and put in the work. You can be upset with the results, but to hurl anonymous insults only demonstrates your own cowardice and ignorance. Grow up.

Oh god shut up ALPA simp. You’re vomitus.

[thepoors]

Regarding the current MEC, I can assure you each one of them got involved because they wanted to make a positive change. And if you consider where we were 24 months ago, I think they did a tremendous job.

First of all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Second, what exactly did they do a tremendous job on? Because this contract is a tremendous pile of shit.

[Mr. North]

First of all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Second, what exactly did they do a tremendous job on? Because this contract is a tremendous pile of shit.

You must be new here. Is your ATPL still wet? 24 months ago we were working under a dismal 10 year agreement that neither delivered gains nor protected us from downturns. We were also represented by ACPA, an old boys club of management wannabes and company shills. Do you think they would have secured 42%?

We emerged from the ACPA wasteland, joined ALPA, stood up committees, and immediately entered bargaining. Some people had previous ALPA experience but I imagine there was plenty of learning on the fly. So sure some mistakes were made but to go from literally nothing to unifying the pilot group and securing the largest per capita collective agreement in Canada is remarkable.

Just because you promised yourself a pony on the surveys and they failed to deliver doesn't change the fact that this agreement is significantly better than what was ever achieved previously. 2/3rds of pilot group voted in favour and I imagine that ratio will improve with time.

Again, I've yet to see anything but vengeful criticisms from the "recall" crowd. What's the purpose? What's the plan? How will it benefit the membership going forward?

[737Drver]

First of all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Second, what exactly did they do a tremendous job on? Because this contract is a tremendous pile of shit.

You must be new here. Is your ATPL still wet? 24 months ago we were working under a dismal 10 year agreement that neither delivered gains nor protected us from downturns. We were also represented by ACPA, an old boys club of management wannabes and company shills. Do you think they would have secured 42%?

We emerged from the ACPA wasteland, joined ALPA, stood up committees, and immediately entered bargaining. Some people had previous ALPA experience but I imagine there was plenty of learning on the fly. So sure some mistakes were made but to go from literally nothing to unifying the pilot group and securing the largest per capita collective agreement in Canada is remarkable.

Just because you promised yourself a pony on the surveys and they failed to deliver doesn't change the fact that this agreement is significantly better than what was ever achieved previously. 2/3rds of pilot group voted in favour and I imagine that ratio will improve with time.

Again, I've yet to see anything but vengeful criticisms from the "recall" crowd. What's the purpose? What's the plan? How will it benefit the membership going forward?

Honest question...literally every North American pilot group is getting similar percentage raises...

But have vastly superior quality of life

And did they need to take bonus concessions to get those? Does the 41% raises take into the $0 bonus you will be getting this year versus last?

I have friends at AC who got North of $15k in April 2024.

Seems like you got some pretty low standards. If you're comparing to an ACPA 10 yrs deal, you may as well be comparing yourself to being a garbage man.

[thepoors]

You must be new here. Is your ATPL still wet? 24 months ago we were working under a dismal 10 year agreement that neither delivered gains nor protected us from downturns. We were also represented by ACPA, an old boys club of management wannabes and company shills. Do you think they would have secured 42%?

Are your Depends wet? Why are you still making comparisons to the 10 yr contract?? 42% gains on garbage is still garbage you fkn genius. Not to mention the loss of any and all profit share.

We emerged from the ACPA wasteland, joined ALPA, stood up committees, and immediately entered bargaining. Some people had previous ALPA experience but I imagine there was plenty of learning on the fly. So sure some mistakes were made but to go from literally nothing to unifying the pilot group and securing the largest per capita collective agreement in Canada is remarkable.

Just because you promised yourself a pony on the surveys and they failed to deliver doesn't change the fact that this agreement is significantly better than what was ever achieved previously. 2/3rds of pilot group voted in favour and I imagine that ratio will improve with time.

Again, I've yet to see anything but vengeful criticisms from the "recall" crowd. What's the purpose? What's the plan? How will it benefit the membership going forward?

It's this kind of loser mentality that keeps people like you in a perpetual cycle of eating shit and grinning at this company. What's your plan? Do the same thing in 2 yrs with the same bogus results?

[Mr. North]

Again, more insults from the peanut gallery and angry criticisms of the contract. With no mention as to why a recall would benefit the membership.

Since it doesn't sound like you're capable of coming up with anything remotely constructive allow me to suggest the following. Instead of playing divisive political games that will amount to nothing, maybe we should focus on implementing and enforcing the contract? Conduct a proper post mortem. Finish building out the association that was quickly thrown together before being thrust into battle. By that I mean build up committees and have the right people leading them. Rebuild unity and hype the membership up to do it all over again using lessons learned from before. Rinse and repeat.

The US didn't get their wages in one contract, neither will we. Took them the better part of a decade. Of course we all aim high but you are delusional if you thought we could get there in one shot. I remember being at WestJet during CA1. Go look at the old posts on here from that time. Nothing but complaints about how their pay fell short of AC. Look at them now. They caught up in 2 cycles. And before you moan about QOL here vs WJ - they always had it. It justified their historic low pay. Meanwhile the overall desire from our membership here was pay, Pay, PAY!!

"I have friends at AC who got North of $15k in April 2024."

That's great so did I. How much did we get in 2021-23? Look how unstable the world is right now plus the other groups about to bargain with AC, you want to hang your hat on profit share? I'd rather the guaranteed (pensionable) pay increase that we can build on in the future but that's just me.

If you can't appreciate where we are vs where we came from, then you'll never be happy. The 10 year deal was rock bottom. What all you keyboard warriors fail to understand is just how insurmountable it is to go from industry rock bottom to the heights of United and Delta (especially with the Feds breathing down your neck). Not possible to do in 1 cycle, there is just too much to fix. Maybe we can do it in 2, quite confident we'll match or exceed in 3.

I suppose all this is cold comfort if you can't afford to live in YYZ or YVR. But is that really ALPA or AC's problem or part of a larger national crisis?
Any way, it's been fun. Take care.

[hithere]

I heard an interesting argument from someone with extensive knowledge of both the US and Canadian airline industry recently. In the US, airline management is more willing to give substantial wage/monetary increases in any given bargaining cycle, because in the event of a bankruptcy (Chapter 11) filing, US law allows the judge overseeing the process to abrogate(basically tear up) the employee contract and sweeping concessions to be imposed. So the airline managements feel that they can give huge wage increases during bargaining cycles and if said increases and a later economic downturn cause the airline so much pain that their business tanks, they can start from scratch and impose much lower salaries coming out of bankruptcy.
In Canada, CCAA rules do not allow abrogation, and therefore if AC management was to give the pilots huge gains during a single bargaining cycle, and there was an economic downturn, the relative reduction in pilot compensation coming out of bankruptcy would be much less and the airline would still be “stuck” with it, making post-bankruptcy recovery more difficult.
Made sense to me

[737Drver]

Again, more insults from the peanut gallery and angry criticisms of the contract. With no mention as to why a recall would benefit the membership.

Since it doesn't sound like you're capable of coming up with anything remotely constructive allow me to suggest the following. Instead of playing divisive political games that will amount to nothing, maybe we should focus on implementing and enforcing the contract? Conduct a proper post mortem. Finish building out the association that was quickly thrown together before being thrust into battle. By that I mean build up committees and have the right people leading them. Rebuild unity and hype the membership up to do it all over again using lessons learned from before. Rinse and repeat.

The US didn't get their wages in one contract, neither will we. Took them the better part of a decade. Of course we all aim high but you are delusional if you thought we could get there in one shot. I remember being at WestJet during CA1. Go look at the old posts on here from that time. Nothing but complaints about how their pay fell short of AC. Look at them now. They caught up in 2 cycles. And before you moan about QOL here vs WJ - they always had it. It justified their historic low pay. Meanwhile the overall desire from our membership here was pay, Pay, PAY!!

"I have friends at AC who got North of $15k in April 2024."

That's great so did I. How much did we get in 2021-23? Look how unstable the world is right now plus the other groups about to bargain with AC, you want to hang your hat on profit share? I'd rather the guaranteed (pensionable) pay increase that we can build on in the future but that's just me.

If you can't appreciate where we are vs where we came from, then you'll never be happy. The 10 year deal was rock bottom. What all you keyboard warriors fail to understand is just how insurmountable it is to go from industry rock bottom to the heights of United and Delta (especially with the Feds breathing down your neck). Not possible to do in 1 cycle, there is just too much to fix. Maybe we can do it in 2, quite confident we'll match or exceed in 3.

I suppose all this is cold comfort if you can't afford to live in YYZ or YVR. But is that really ALPA or AC's problem or part of a larger national crisis?
Any way, it's been fun. Take care.

Why can't you get a pay raise & have a bonus?

Every other airline got/has that

Or do you just work hard to rationalize poor outcomes?

[rudder]

I heard an interesting argument from someone with extensive knowledge of both the US and Canadian airline industry recently. In the US, airline management is more willing to give substantial wage/monetary increases in any given bargaining cycle, because in the event of a bankruptcy (Chapter 11) filing, US law allows the judge overseeing the process to abrogate(basically tear up) the employee contract and sweeping concessions to be imposed. So the airline managements feel that they can give huge wage increases during bargaining cycles and if said increases and a later economic downturn cause the airline so much pain that their business tanks, they can start from scratch and impose much lower salaries coming out of bankruptcy.
In Canada, CCAA rules do not allow abrogation, and therefore if AC management was to give the pilots huge gains during a single bargaining cycle, and there was an economic downturn, the relative reduction in pilot compensation coming out of bankruptcy would be much less and the airline would still be “stuck” with it, making post-bankruptcy recovery more difficult.
Made sense to me

This is not in the hypothetical. We all went through this in 2003/2004.

Having said that, you are correct. There is no provision for the court to order revised labour agreements. But as we all found out, you either meet the cost reduction target(s) associated with the restructuring plan or risk a rejection of the plan by the unsecured creditors and proceed to court supervised liquidation.

Clearly there are differences in both the labour code and bankruptcy for Canada and the US. But I am not sure that the employers game the system relying on a get-out-of-jail free card of the court imposing concessions.

Also be aware that US unionized employees can spend years past an expiry date negotiating a renewal. This is allowed for in the RLA. Canada on the other hand has specified and limiting timelines to achieve or renew a CBA.

As for the original topic, the term of the current MEC Executive will expire March 31. One can presume that an MEC meeting will be scheduled prior to that date with the agenda item of Election of MEC Officers. Nominations may only emanate from status representatives. Members with opinions on either the incumbents or possible alternative candidates would be well advised to reach out to their respective status rep with opinion or commentary or to find out what their status rep has planned in regard to this agenda item.

[GeoffPilot]

Again, more insults from the peanut gallery and angry criticisms of the contract. With no mention as to why a recall would benefit the membership.

Since it doesn't sound like you're capable of coming up with anything remotely constructive allow me to suggest the following. Instead of playing divisive political games that will amount to nothing, maybe we should focus on implementing and enforcing the contract? Conduct a proper post mortem. Finish building out the association that was quickly thrown together before being thrust into battle. By that I mean build up committees and have the right people leading them. Rebuild unity and hype the membership up to do it all over again using lessons learned from before. Rinse and repeat.

The US didn't get their wages in one contract, neither will we. Took them the better part of a decade. Of course we all aim high but you are delusional if you thought we could get there in one shot. I remember being at WestJet during CA1. Go look at the old posts on here from that time. Nothing but complaints about how their pay fell short of AC. Look at them now. They caught up in 2 cycles. And before you moan about QOL here vs WJ - they always had it. It justified their historic low pay. Meanwhile the overall desire from our membership here was pay, Pay, PAY!!

"I have friends at AC who got North of $15k in April 2024."

That's great so did I. How much did we get in 2021-23? Look how unstable the world is right now plus the other groups about to bargain with AC, you want to hang your hat on profit share? I'd rather the guaranteed (pensionable) pay increase that we can build on in the future but that's just me.

If you can't appreciate where we are vs where we came from, then you'll never be happy. The 10 year deal was rock bottom. What all you keyboard warriors fail to understand is just how insurmountable it is to go from industry rock bottom to the heights of United and Delta (especially with the Feds breathing down your neck). Not possible to do in 1 cycle, there is just too much to fix. Maybe we can do it in 2, quite confident we'll match or exceed in 3.

I suppose all this is cold comfort if you can't afford to live in YYZ or YVR. But is that really ALPA or AC's problem or part of a larger national crisis?
Any way, it's been fun. Take care.

What round of bargaining did United/Delta have to give up concessions like their bonus to get their current pay & quality of life?

[Freshredmeat]

Lol...never

Some Air Canada pilots just can't help themselves with concessions