Encore hiring Foreign Workers??

[cdnavater]

And anyone that pushed the fear narrative the WJ would shutdown the Q400 operation because the pilots make too much.

Seriously, how F'n stupid are some of you.

Has anyone ever told you how fu cken annoying you are, never mind that was a stupid question, of course that’s happened.

Aren't you that arrogant Jazz pilot who thinks his $150k Cdn salary is good? Isn't that like a $100k US? What is that...like the starting wage for regional pilot down south??

First of all, how much do you make, still on mommy and daddy’s teat?
Second 150k is far above the majority of Canadians income,
Thirdly, I made 196k with zero OT in 2024 and I get a 4.5% increase this July, hardly a shitty income!

[FelixGustof]

How are Jazz pilots getting 4% raises?

Didn't they vote yes to like a 17 yrs deal at 2%

[Tbayer2021]

Has anyone ever told you how fu cken annoying you are, never mind that was a stupid question, of course that’s happened.

Aren't you that arrogant Jazz pilot who thinks his $150k Cdn salary is good? Isn't that like a $100k US? What is that...like the starting wage for regional pilot down south??

Second 150k is far above the majority of Canadians income,
Thirdly, I made 196k with zero OT in 2024 and I get a 4.5% increase this July, hardly a shitty income!

I really wish we could get rid of this mentality. It may be well above average and mean income in the country. But your top of the scale salary that took you decades to achieve couldn't buy you a single family home in Toronto today. We cannot continue to settle just because it's better than others.

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Imagine being at the pinnacle of your career, the most you will ever make in your life as a pilot and comparing yourself to average Canadian wages.

This literally means you're comparing yourself to Walmart workers, garbage men, bus drivers, librarians, gardeners or whatever other job that takes weeks to get trained up on.

Just embarrassing comment from a Canadian "avater". Or is it an "avatar"? Definitely don't want him negotiating on behalf of this profession. Yikes.

[BillytheKid]

Why are unions allowing foreign workers to flood the pilot labour market?

[Arnie Pye]

The better question is how can we all support ALPA's stance agains TFW pilots?

[cdnavater]

How are Jazz pilots getting 4% raises?

Didn't they vote yes to like a 17 yrs deal at 2%

Because there was an amendment to the CBA September 2023 and this year there is an additional YOS added to the scale which combined to add 4.5% to my pay scale.

[cdnavater]

Imagine being at the pinnacle of your career, the most you will ever make in your life as a pilot and comparing yourself to average Canadian wages.

This literally means you're comparing yourself to Walmart workers, garbage men, bus drivers, librarians, gardeners or whatever other job that takes weeks to get trained up on.

Just embarrassing comment from a Canadian "avater". Or is it an "avatar"? Definitely don't want him negotiating on behalf of this profession. Yikes.

I was simply stating fact, 150k is not an insignificant wage, also the fact I’m above that.
I’m going to leave the other stuff, as you don’t know me but suffice to say I’m proud of my profession and just realize after 35 years, there are always limitations and you have to set your expectations, otherwise you’ll be extremely unhappy no matter the outcome!
Air Canada is replacing 76 seat aircraft with 137 seat aircraft, if you take the top a220 Capt wage divided by seats available, it’s 2.23 per hour, CRJ/E175/ is 2.32 per available seat per hour. Pilot wages at Jazz are already above the seat mile cost of the AC A220, where do you think they will direct the resources, take your time, it’s a tough question!

[unionism101]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.7489950

WestJet considers hiring temporary foreign workers to solve pilot shortage

Calgary-based WestJet is considering whether to use temporary foreign workers (TFWs) to fly its planes.

In a statement, spokesperson Julia Kaiser told CBC News the airline is exploring the labour market impact assessment (LMIA) process as one of "multiple avenues" to meet a shortage of WestJet Encore captains.

The LMIA is essentially a piece of paperwork that a business needs to take part in the federal TFW program, to prove that there are no local workers available to take a job.

The union representing pilots at the airline says it wasn't consulted by either the WestJet or the federal government about the move.

"This application should never have been made," said Capt. Tim Perry, president of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) Canada.

WestJet has already received federal approval to hire through the TFW program, the union said. Neither the airline nor Employment and Social Development Canada have confirmed those details to CBC News.

Perry said the union has no problems with permanent immigration or with hiring newcomers, but objects to the airline's use of the TFW program in particular.

If WestJet has a problem attracting enough pilots, he said, it should work on improving its collective agreement, rather than looking abroad for a source of temporary labour.

Aviation expert John Gradek said there is a pilot shortage both in Canada and around the world. It stems from the COVID-19 pandemic when the whole industry was put on hold, he said.

In his view, the TFW program is not the way for the airline to address its staffing issues.

"WestJet is trying to short-circuit the process of hiring Canadian pilots," said Gradek, who is a faculty lecturer in aviation management at McGill University.

"This is not the way we basically look at hiring high-quality, good-paying, very demanding pilot jobs in Canada."

So far, WestJet says it has not yet hired any workers through the TFW program.

[thepoors]

Where is JBI & Bede on this?

Too busy pushing yes votes & shilling for WJ?

Can you imagine ALPA allowing Delta to hire foreign workers on visas??

LOL

I don't work for WJ anymore. Haven't for some time. I work for Employment and Social Development Canada now.

Didn't stop you from being an ALPA apologist on every other thread... Now you're distancing yourself. Are you sure you don't actually work for ALPA?

[Booming]

Where is JBI & Bede on this?

Too busy pushing yes votes & shilling for WJ?

Can you imagine ALPA allowing Delta to hire foreign workers on visas??

LOL

I don't work for WJ anymore. Haven't for some time. I work for Employment and Social Development Canada now.

Didn't stop you from being an ALPA apologist on every other thread... Now you're distancing yourself. Are you sure you don't actually work for ALPA?

"You can't lose any battle if you never fight"

- Bede

[Tony Soprano]

I don't work for WJ anymore. Haven't for some time. I work for Employment and Social Development Canada now.

Didn't stop you from being an ALPA apologist on every other thread... Now you're distancing yourself. Are you sure you don't actually work for ALPA?

"You can't lose any battle if you never fight"

- Bede

I'm pretty sure you dumbasses are being trolled. ESDC administers the TFW program.

[thepoors]

Didn't stop you from being an ALPA apologist on every other thread... Now you're distancing yourself. Are you sure you don't actually work for ALPA?

"You can't lose any battle if you never fight"

- Bede

I'm pretty sure you dumbasses are being trolled. ESDC administers the TFW program.

I got the joke, it's just not funny.

Great show of character that he's choosing to clam up and make light of this issue when he's usually always yapping.

If ALPA does nothing to shut this down we are really screwed.

[Bede]

Are you not an ALPA member? Did you not get the memo from Canada Board? Of course ALPA will fight this. It's ridiculous.

Fellow Pilots,

ALPA Canada was recently informed that WestJet Inc. received approval from the government to move ahead with its plan to hire pilots through the Temporary Foreign Worker (TFW) Program at WestJet Encore citing an inability to attract pilots to the airline.

At the heart of the issue is career progression and job security. It is apparent that management has not taken these issues seriously as it charges forward with this problematic, short-sighted, band-aid solution that will ultimately destabilize its own workforce, erode trust, and cause irreparable damage to the labour relations Encore pilots and our union have worked so hard to establish. We all know there are solutions to attracting and retaining skilled professional pilots that don’t involve utilizing a federal program that was never intended for this purpose.

Over the years we have continued to deal with issues that arise and as a result changes to the program have occurred, and this issue is no exception. Currently the criteria guiding the Program’s assessment process do not include consultation or engagement with the unions representing employees who are impacted by the hiring of TFWs. There should be considerations required when assessing highly skilled, licensed, unionized workers employed under terms set out through collective bargaining. In this case, the Program does little to encourage employers, like WestJet Encore, to address the reality of their own labour shortage in a meaningful way, to solve their pilot attraction and retention issues.

To be clear, our union has never opposed legal immigration, with a stable path to citizenship, whereby potential employees have labour mobility, and their status in Canada is not tied to the whims of a particular employer.

This decision, made by regional office staff (public servants), is an egregious error in judgement at a time when our country should be protecting Canadian jobs. We are exploring all legal remedies in response to this latest move by WestJet Encore.

We will continue to work with the WestJet Encore MEC on this matter and may ask for your help in our efforts. Please stand by for further information.

In unity,

Tim Perry—ALPA Canada President

[thepoors]

Are you not an ALPA member? Did you not get the memo from Canada Board? Of course ALPA will fight this. It's ridiculous.

Fellow Pilots,

ALPA Canada was recently informed that WestJet Inc. received approval from the government to move ahead with its plan to hire pilots through the Temporary Foreign Worker (TFW) Program at WestJet Encore citing an inability to attract pilots to the airline.

At the heart of the issue is career progression and job security. It is apparent that management has not taken these issues seriously as it charges forward with this problematic, short-sighted, band-aid solution that will ultimately destabilize its own workforce, erode trust, and cause irreparable damage to the labour relations Encore pilots and our union have worked so hard to establish. We all know there are solutions to attracting and retaining skilled professional pilots that don’t involve utilizing a federal program that was never intended for this purpose.

Over the years we have continued to deal with issues that arise and as a result changes to the program have occurred, and this issue is no exception. Currently the criteria guiding the Program’s assessment process do not include consultation or engagement with the unions representing employees who are impacted by the hiring of TFWs. There should be considerations required when assessing highly skilled, licensed, unionized workers employed under terms set out through collective bargaining. In this case, the Program does little to encourage employers, like WestJet Encore, to address the reality of their own labour shortage in a meaningful way, to solve their pilot attraction and retention issues.

To be clear, our union has never opposed legal immigration, with a stable path to citizenship, whereby potential employees have labour mobility, and their status in Canada is not tied to the whims of a particular employer.

This decision, made by regional office staff (public servants), is an egregious error in judgement at a time when our country should be protecting Canadian jobs. We are exploring all legal remedies in response to this latest move by WestJet Encore.

We will continue to work with the WestJet Encore MEC on this matter and may ask for your help in our efforts. Please stand by for further information.

In unity,

Tim Perry—ALPA Canada President

Yeah...lots of "concern" and coulda, shoulda, woulda so far. Let's see if this union can actually accomplish something in favour of its membership for once.

[cgartly]

How long does it take to get a foreign DEC from start to finish in the captain seat?

My guess is with license conversions/validations/visa's/relocation - training, line indoc etc etc it must be pretty close to a year before they are online on their own - purely a guess, I am not in the industry.

I know of applicants trying to get in the industry that are 500 hrs away from being able to hold a captains seat (if they pass all the evals etc), that are being turned away by encore currently. So to me they aren't trying very hard to fill the role with Canadian's. Pilots that would be happy to start there, stay there, at the current wages being turned away.

[cdnavater]

How long does it take to get a foreign DEC from start to finish in the captain seat?

My guess is with license conversions/validations/visa's/relocation - training, line indoc etc etc it must be pretty close to a year before they are online on their own - purely a guess, I am not in the industry.

I know of applicants trying to get in the industry that are 500 hrs away from being able to hold a captains seat (if they pass all the evals etc), that are being turned away by encore currently. So to me they aren't trying very hard to fill the role with Canadian's. Pilots that would be happy to start there, stay there, at the current wages being turned away.

500 hours away is still a long ways to go if they already have enough FOs, it would be well over a year for an FO that was 500 hours short. There would be many months of reserve and no flying and generally a full block will get you maybe 60 hours in the logbook!
That being said, this needs to be shutdown fast, I find it extremely hypocritical of WJ group to go this route after their very public shaming of Sunwing for the same thing.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Encore pilots were willing and eager to strike. The NC was under the belief that everything offered in the first TA was everything that they could squeeze from the stone. Encore pilots said not good enough and the NC was able to squeeze a little more.

Encore is not just having a hard time hiring and upgrading captains, but also retaining them. Pilots realize that there is no future at the WestJet group from Encore, so the best way up is out.

[Bede]

Yeah...lots of "concern" and coulda, shoulda, woulda so far. Let's see if this union can actually accomplish something in favour of its membership for once.

Like securing a bunch of ratified collective agreements with record improvements?

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

Yeah...lots of "concern" and coulda, shoulda, woulda so far. Let's see if this union can actually accomplish something in favour of its membership for once.

Like securing a bunch of ratified collective agreements with record improvements?

This is the ALPA Simp we all know. Welcome back Bede!

Cheers to more yes votes

[cgartly]

How long does it take to get a foreign DEC from start to finish in the captain seat?

My guess is with license conversions/validations/visa's/relocation - training, line indoc etc etc it must be pretty close to a year before they are online on their own - purely a guess, I am not in the industry.

I know of applicants trying to get in the industry that are 500 hrs away from being able to hold a captains seat (if they pass all the evals etc), that are being turned away by encore currently. So to me they aren't trying very hard to fill the role with Canadian's. Pilots that would be happy to start there, stay there, at the current wages being turned away.

500 hours away is still a long ways to go if they already have enough FOs, it would be well over a year for an FO that was 500 hours short. There would be many months of reserve and no flying and generally a full block will get you maybe 60 hours in the logbook!
That being said, this needs to be shutdown fast, I find it extremely hypocritical of WJ group to go this route after their very public shaming of Sunwing for the same thing.

One friend of mine needed the 500 hrs on type & 705 time when he was hired, he upgraded in exactly 12 months - this was recently, another friend of mine upgraded in just over 12 months (when they lowered the TT requirement to 1500 from 2000), so both were able to get 500 hrs in 12 months. So it is possible.

I'm not racist in any way but am tired of foreign pilots getting jobs in 703 particularly when there are Canadian pilots trying - I suspect it is because the foreign pilots will or have to put up with crappier work environment. There seem to be some operators that think they are doing you a favor by hiring you and treat you like crap. Anyways I digress.

[Bede]

Yeah...lots of "concern" and coulda, shoulda, woulda so far. Let's see if this union can actually accomplish something in favour of its membership for once.

Like securing a bunch of ratified collective agreements with record improvements?

This is the ALPA Simp we all know. Welcome back Bede!

Cheers to more yes votes

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am proud of the union that I'm part of. If you want to be part of management's gang of useful idiots and oppose everything that your fellow pilots support, have at it.

[Bede]

I'm not racist in any way but am tired of foreign pilots getting jobs in 703 particularly when there are Canadian pilots trying - I suspect it is because the foreign pilots will or have to put up with crappier work environment. There seem to be some operators that think they are doing you a favor by hiring you and treat you like crap. Anyways I digress.

Are you sure that these "foreign pilots" are getting 703 jobs or are these permanent residents or citizens that were born somewhere else? The reason I ask is that I know of a kid who has a work visa who has been slogging it out on the ramp for a long time but can't get flying because the work visa only covers ramp work, not flying work.

[thepoors]

Yeah...lots of "concern" and coulda, shoulda, woulda so far. Let's see if this union can actually accomplish something in favour of its membership for once.

Like securing a bunch of ratified collective agreements with record improvements?

This is the ALPA Simp we all know. Welcome back Bede!

Cheers to more yes votes

Haha there he is..

Yes gotta love those ratified collective agreements where all it took was weak management bluffs of "nothing left on the table," "government intervention" or "we'll shut it down" and ALPA leadership couldn't be happier to bend over and sell out its membership instead of following their mandate.

And then driving it home with absurdities like "record improvements achieved" - Bede I have a pig I'd love to sell you, could I just borrow your wife's lipstick for a minute?

[cdnavater]

How long does it take to get a foreign DEC from start to finish in the captain seat?

My guess is with license conversions/validations/visa's/relocation - training, line indoc etc etc it must be pretty close to a year before they are online on their own - purely a guess, I am not in the industry.

I know of applicants trying to get in the industry that are 500 hrs away from being able to hold a captains seat (if they pass all the evals etc), that are being turned away by encore currently. So to me they aren't trying very hard to fill the role with Canadian's. Pilots that would be happy to start there, stay there, at the current wages being turned away.

500 hours away is still a long ways to go if they already have enough FOs, it would be well over a year for an FO that was 500 hours short. There would be many months of reserve and no flying and generally a full block will get you maybe 60 hours in the logbook!
That being said, this needs to be shutdown fast, I find it extremely hypocritical of WJ group to go this route after their very public shaming of Sunwing for the same thing.

One friend of mine needed the 500 hrs on type & 705 time when he was hired, he upgraded in exactly 12 months - this was recently, another friend of mine upgraded in just over 12 months (when they lowered the TT requirement to 1500 from 2000), so both were able to get 500 hrs in 12 months. So it is possible.

I'm not racist in any way but am tired of foreign pilots getting jobs in 703 particularly when there are Canadian pilots trying - I suspect it is because the foreign pilots will or have to put up with crappier work environment. There seem to be some operators that think they are doing you a favor by hiring you and treat you like crap. Anyways I digress.

A year is still a long time when you are short of Captains, they need Captains now, not a year from now.
I also heard they put it back to 2000 as the 1500 didn’t work very well, not sure if that was rumour or fact.