25% Tariff on all non US made Autos.

[pelmet]

I want to eat European cheese with no restrictions. I don’t want 7eca and few thousand dairy farmers interfering with that. The statement about American cheese in the previous post is typical immature argument with zero credibility.

Millions of Canadians are not interested in paying extra for their dairy products just because it’s quality is equal to imports.

Time to end the dairy board and end this destructive tariff war in order to defend them.

[7ECA]

I want to eat European cheese with no restrictions. I don’t want 7eca and few thousand dairy farmers interfering with that. The statement about American cheese in the previous post is typical immature argument with zero credibility.

Millions of Canadians are not interested in paying extra for their dairy products just because it’s quality is equal to imports.

Time to end the dairy board and end this destructive tariff war in order to defend them.

Over 19 million kilograms of European cheese were imported in 2022, and likely more in the years since. Is that not enough European cheese for you, or do you require more to satiate your cravings?

According to Stats Canada there are roughly 9500 dairy farms in Canada. Are you suggesting that they should be stripped of all protections from international suppliers? Are they not as taxpayers entitled to subsidies or other inducements from the government to ensure a secure supply of dairy products in Canada?

Your suggestion to end the tariff war would have us capitulate to the Americans, and then what? Would you like Canada to cease to exist as a sovereign nation, so as to further appease the Yanks? We didn't start this tariff war, Trump did. Trump can end it just as easily as he started it. Instead, here we are standing up to a bully by not appeasing him. If you don't like that, maybe Alberta is calling...

[rookiepilot]

Could be an interesting week.

[altiplano]

I want to eat European cheese with no restrictions. I don’t want 7eca and few thousand dairy farmers interfering with that. The statement about American cheese in the previous post is typical immature argument with zero credibility.

Millions of Canadians are not interested in paying extra for their dairy products just because it’s quality is equal to imports.

Time to end the dairy board and end this destructive tariff war in order to defend them.

Over 19 million kilograms of European cheese were imported in 2022, and likely more in the years since. Is that not enough European cheese for you, or do you require more to satiate your cravings?

According to Stats Canada there are roughly 9500 dairy farms in Canada. Are you suggesting that they should be stripped of all protections from international suppliers? Are they not as taxpayers entitled to subsidies or other inducements from the government to ensure a secure supply of dairy products in Canada?

Your suggestion to end the tariff war would have us capitulate to the Americans, and then what? Would you like Canada to cease to exist as a sovereign nation, so as to further appease the Yanks? We didn't start this tariff war, Trump did. Trump can end it just as easily as he started it. Instead, here we are standing up to a bully by not appeasing him. If you don't like that, maybe Alberta is calling...

That's not even 500 grams of cheese per person. Yeah, I want more than that.

Canadians eat on average 13 KG of cheese per year.

I wanted death to dairy supply management before tariffs ever reared there head. It's better for Canadians.

[rookiepilot]

According to Stats Canada there are roughly 9500 dairy farms in Canada. Are you suggesting that they should be stripped of all protections from international suppliers? Are they not as taxpayers entitled to subsidies or other inducements from the government to ensure a secure supply of dairy products in Canada?

9500 multi millionaire dairy farmers due to their votes being bought in a corrupted system?

No. They are surely not. That is not a right of being a taxpayer. The word entitled needs to be absolutely expunged from the english dictionary.

Burn it all down.

Cabotage, (with reciprocal rights ) telecom ownership, (ditto) dairy. Let the free market decide and competition reign, governed only by legitimate health and safety regulations.

[Bede]

Over 19 million kilograms of European cheese were imported in 2022, and likely more in the years since. Is that not enough European cheese for you, or do you require more to satiate your cravings?

No that's not enough European cheese and I require more to satiate my cravings.

According to Stats Canada there are roughly 9500 dairy farms in Canada. Are you suggesting that they should be stripped of all protections from international suppliers?

Yes.

Are they not as taxpayers entitled to subsidies or other inducements from the government to ensure a secure supply of dairy products in Canada?

No.

Would you like Canada to cease to exist as a sovereign nation, so as to further appease the Yanks?

So ending supply management means that Canada ceases to exist?

We didn't start this tariff war, Trump did.

I dislike Trump as much as anyone, but we can't, with a straight face, complain about US tariffs when we've been making carve out's for the dairy industry for decades. It's either free trade or protectionism.

[CpnCrunch]

9500 multi millionaire dairy farmers due to their votes being bought in a corrupted system?

No. They are surely not. That is not a right of being a taxpayer. The word entitled needs to be absolutely expunged from the english dictionary.

Burn it all down.

Cabotage, (with reciprocal rights ) telecom ownership, (ditto) dairy. Let the free market decide and competition reign, governed only by legitimate health and safety regulations.

Average dairy farm in Canada has 99 cows and $250k net income.

[pelmet]

I want to eat European cheese with no restrictions. I don’t want 7eca and few thousand dairy farmers interfering with that. The statement about American cheese in the previous post is typical immature argument with zero credibility.

Millions of Canadians are not interested in paying extra for their dairy products just because it’s quality is equal to imports.

Time to end the dairy board and end this destructive tariff war in order to defend them.

Over 19 million kilograms of European cheese were imported in 2022, and likely more in the years since. Is that not enough European cheese for you, or do you require more to satiate your cravings?

According to Stats Canada there are roughly 9500 dairy farms in Canada. Are you suggesting that they should be stripped of all protections from international suppliers? Are they not as taxpayers entitled to subsidies or other inducements from the government to ensure a secure supply of dairy products in Canada?

Your suggestion to end the tariff war would have us capitulate to the Americans, and then what? Would you like Canada to cease to exist as a sovereign nation, so as to further appease the Yanks? We didn't start this tariff war, Trump did. Trump can end it just as easily as he started it. Instead, here we are standing up to a bully by not appeasing him. If you don't like that, maybe Alberta is calling...

Hey 7ECA, someone just answered your post about 19 million Kg of European cheese imported per year which works out to not even 500g of cheese per person when the average canadian eats 13kg of cheese per year. Why are you so intent on restricting how much European cheese Canadians can eat?

[pelmet]

Would you like Canada to cease to exist as a sovereign nation, so as to further appease the Yanks? We didn't start this tariff war, Trump did. Trump can end it just as easily as he started it. Instead, here we are standing up to a bully by not appeasing him. If you don't like that, maybe Alberta is calling...

These are the ridiculous statements that give zero credibility. Suggest ending the dairy board and "Canada will cease to exist as a sovereign nation". Remember that thing I said about emotion overriding common sense. Not interested in massive economic harm in order to allow 9500 farmers to tell us how much European cheese we can import and then charge us higher prices for their cheese.

[cdnavater]

9500 multi millionaire dairy farmers due to their votes being bought in a corrupted system?

No. They are surely not. That is not a right of being a taxpayer. The word entitled needs to be absolutely expunged from the english dictionary.

Burn it all down.

Cabotage, (with reciprocal rights ) telecom ownership, (ditto) dairy. Let the free market decide and competition reign, governed only by legitimate health and safety regulations.

Average dairy farm in Canada has 99 cows and $250k net income.

Imagine how big those farms could get if they weren’t capped at production limits! It works both ways, they could export their product to if it were free trade.

[Bede]

Average dairy farm in Canada has 99 cows and $250k net income.

A dairy cow quota is worth what, $25k?
So $2.5M is cattle assets + land + equipment +$250/year NET. Sounds like they're doing alright. (Not begrudging farmers at all, but they're certainly not living in poverty.)

[YYCAME]

Free markets only exists when there is healthy competition in the marketplace. Current political climate has allowed allowed companies to form monopoly and monosopy powers which can now only be controlled by government regulation. If we reduce corporate capture of the market then we can definitely reduce government regulation of industry but as it currently stands I think the monosopy powers in the grocery industry would simply destroy good jobs in the Canadian dairy industry in favor of the chicken farming model in the US where there is no free market and everyone gets forced into a rent model industry in order to participate. If you want free markets then we have to argue for smaller companies otherwise it's just shilling for the large market movers to hold us over a barrel. At least if the dairy industry screws up now we can appeal to government regulation and reform but private industry has no reason not to reduce quality and raise prices if the large buyers are allowed to pick off individual farmers who don't like the terms that are offered if dairy is deregulated.

[rookiepilot]

I am going to say it:

This is all Quebec vote buying. Same with blocking pipelines we need.

I love Quebec. I lived there for 2 years.

But they need to play nice, get in line or get kicked out of Canada.

Quebec needs to ask -- what can we do for Canada? Not the reverse.

Federal politicians -- the Bloc -- who advocate only for Quebec interests and not for the whole country are traitors and should be treated as such.

[digits_]

I want to eat European cheese with no restrictions. I don’t want 7eca and few thousand dairy farmers interfering with that. The statement about American cheese in the previous post is typical immature argument with zero credibility.

Millions of Canadians are not interested in paying extra for their dairy products just because it’s quality is equal to imports.

Time to end the dairy board and end this destructive tariff war in order to defend them.

Over 19 million kilograms of European cheese were imported in 2022, and likely more in the years since. Is that not enough European cheese for you, or do you require more to satiate your cravings?

It's not.

If you want to protect markets, you can have reasonable tariffs, you don't have to implement hard quota. Very few industries have hard quotas.

According to Stats Canada there are roughly 9500 dairy farms in Canada. Are you suggesting that they should be stripped of all protections from international suppliers?

I'm sure most people would be ok with 'some' protections. It's a bit too much at the moment.

Are they not as taxpayers entitled to subsidies or other inducements from the government to ensure a secure supply of dairy products in Canada?

Uhm.. I'd say they are as entitled as other industries and companies. Wouldn't you say the dairy sector is getting a disproportionate amount of protection?

Your suggestion to end the tariff war would have us capitulate to the Americans, and then what? Would you like Canada to cease to exist as a sovereign nation, so as to further appease the Yanks? We didn't start this tariff war, Trump did. Trump can end it just as easily as he started it. Instead, here we are standing up to a bully by not appeasing him. If you don't like that, maybe Alberta is calling...

The tariff war might have put the spotlights on this, but it's not the reason why people want to modify them. At least not for me. It's a pretty appalling system once you read up on it.

[newlygrounded]

I am going to say it:

This is all Quebec vote buying. Same with blocking pipelines we need.

I love Quebec. I lived there for 2 years.

But they need to play nice, get in line or get kicked out of Canada.

Quebec needs to ask -- what can we do for Canada? Not the reverse.

Federal politicians -- the Bloc -- who advocate only for Quebec interests and not for the whole country are traitors and should be treated as such.

If we build an oil pipeline who is responsible for any spills? Do the economics make sense long term?

Not sure if my comments fit this thread or not but something that appears to have been overlooked is that Canada put 100% tariffs on Chinese built EV’s to hopefully prevent tariffs on US bound ,Canadian autos & parts.
In return China put 100% tariffs on Canadian canola & peas;considering that almost all of Canada’s canola & peas end up in China through west coast ports a whole lot of western farmers & west coast grain industry employees could be in for a world of hurt ,not to mention the transport industry that moves that product.

Daryl

Part of it is also keeping the asian domestic manufacturers happy, imagine if the big 3 plus Toyota plus Honda got hit?

Well, I was supposed to go trade in my 2022 American made for a 2025 American made this weekend, I’ll double check if it’s manufactured in Canada but outside of that I’ll be putting off any purchase of an American made anything for a while, likely almost four more years!
Chinese made electric cars may be enticing if Canada removes the 100% tariff, I say since it was applied in solidarity with the US, remove it and decimate US car sales to Canada. I’m sure the manufacturing plants can be modified to another car maker!

The reason chinese ev's are so cheap are the shit dealer network (good luck getting parts lmfao) and the factories that have almost no workers. I think we'd do a lot more damage to ourselves by getting rid of the 100% tarriff.

[rookiepilot]

I am going to say it:

This is all Quebec vote buying. Same with blocking pipelines we need.

I love Quebec. I lived there for 2 years.

But they need to play nice, get in line or get kicked out of Canada.

Quebec needs to ask -- what can we do for Canada? Not the reverse.

Federal politicians -- the Bloc -- who advocate only for Quebec interests and not for the whole country are traitors and should be treated as such.

If we build an oil pipeline who is responsible for any spills? Do the economics make sense long term?

Part of it is also keeping the asian domestic manufacturers happy, imagine if the big 3 plus Toyota plus Honda got hit?

Well, I was supposed to go trade in my 2022 American made for a 2025 American made this weekend, I’ll double check if it’s manufactured in Canada but outside of that I’ll be putting off any purchase of an American made anything for a while, likely almost four more years!
Chinese made electric cars may be enticing if Canada removes the 100% tariff, I say since it was applied in solidarity with the US, remove it and decimate US car sales to Canada. I’m sure the manufacturing plants can be modified to another car maker!

The reason chinese ev's are so cheap are the shit dealer network (good luck getting parts lmfao) and the factories that have almost no workers. I think we'd do a lot more damage to ourselves by getting rid of the 100% tarriff.

A) Not up to the Mayor of Montreal. Some things of critical importance are federal. Stay in your own lane, mayors.

We don't let mayors decide military or foreign policy. Pipelines are a national security issue. Be silent.

B) That's up to me as a consumer to decide which EV to buy.

[newlygrounded]

I am going to say it:

This is all Quebec vote buying. Same with blocking pipelines we need.

I love Quebec. I lived there for 2 years.

But they need to play nice, get in line or get kicked out of Canada.

Quebec needs to ask -- what can we do for Canada? Not the reverse.

Federal politicians -- the Bloc -- who advocate only for Quebec interests and not for the whole country are traitors and should be treated as such.

If we build an oil pipeline who is responsible for any spills? Do the economics make sense long term?

Well, I was supposed to go trade in my 2022 American made for a 2025 American made this weekend, I’ll double check if it’s manufactured in Canada but outside of that I’ll be putting off any purchase of an American made anything for a while, likely almost four more years!
Chinese made electric cars may be enticing if Canada removes the 100% tariff, I say since it was applied in solidarity with the US, remove it and decimate US car sales to Canada. I’m sure the manufacturing plants can be modified to another car maker!

The reason chinese ev's are so cheap are the shit dealer network (good luck getting parts lmfao) and the factories that have almost no workers. I think we'd do a lot more damage to ourselves by getting rid of the 100% tarriff.

A) Not up to the Mayor of Montreal. Some things of critical importance are federal. Stay in your own lane, mayors.

We don't let mayors decide military or foreign policy. Pipelines are a national security issue. Be silent.

B) That's up to me as a consumer to decide which EV to buy.

A. I like how you ignored the question, the feds can force through decisions but that's a bad look, and overall undemocratic. If QC is on the hook for any spills with none of the direct benefits why shouldn't they say no?

B. I know it's not quite the same but by that logic child labour is cool if all that matters is the almighty consumers preference

[goldeneagle]

A dairy cow quota is worth what, $25k?
So $2.5M is cattle assets + land + equipment +$250/year NET. Sounds like they're doing alright. (Not begrudging farmers at all, but they're certainly not living in poverty.)

You write that as if the land + equipment is nothing. Typical barn to host 100 dairy cattle, with all the equipment required for feeding, milking, and dealing with the waste, probably another 2 to 3 million. Then there is the equipment required to tend the land, have you gone out and priced a tractor recently ? And then there are all the attachments required, a tractor on it's own is pointless. Add seed drill, mower, rake, bailing equipment, maure spreader, and now you are talking some serious big bucks, a millioin+ in that batch of gear. Then you add an irrigation system ? Most dairies dont have enough land to grow all the feed required for the herd, so, they buy a lot of feed over and above what is grown. Then ofc there is the land, a quarter section is a small plot for this kind of operation, and wont grow enough feed for 100 head. To be self sufficient on feed for 100 head, likely need a lot more land. Have you priced out a quarter section of ground that's good enough for growing hay and/or corn for silage?

Me thinks you are drastically under estimating the capital required to run a dairy farm.

The average farm can make a comfortable living, but, it's certainly not something one does for the money, it's more about a lifestyle.

[goldeneagle]

Most of the folks going on about the dairy dont understand the supply management system, and think it's all about the $$$. It is not, like the name suggests, it's about managing supply, to ensure a consistent supply at a consistent price, year round. It's more about making sure young children have access to milk for drinking while growing up, than it is about the farmers themselves. It is the reason supply management was originally implemented in the way it was. In the 50's and 60's, for many parts of Canada, milk was essentially a seasonal commodity based on the natural calving cycle of the dairy herd, with milk in short supply thru the latter part of the winter. The use it or lose it nature of the quota system essentially forced dairy herd management to change such that the supply became consistent.

To see a real world current example of the supply management system working well, look no farther than the poultry market for eggs. In Canada, the quota system ensured that our egg flocks are many, and dispersed. The unregulated environment in the US allowed for massive consolidation such that large operations house upwards of 2 million laying hens in a single facility. Enter bird flu to a few of the large operations, and now there is a huge shortage of eggs, which is not quickly and easily corrected. The hatcheries dont have the capacity to produce the required number of birds on short notice, and even if they did, it takes months from hatch till a hen is laying. Yes, we had flocks decimated by bird flu in Canada, but, the nature of a system based on many smaller producers rather than a few very large ones meant, losing a few flocks was not nearly as big of a shock to the supply chain. I was in Superstore today, bought a flat of eggs 2 1/2 dozen eggs for 10 bucks, equivalent to $7us. In many parts of the US today, 7 bucks wont buy a dozen eggs. This is an example of the supply management system doing exactly what it's intended to do, consistent supply at a consistent price for the Canadian population, year round.

Supply management is about consistent supply, food security for the population, it's not about gouging for the bucks as some seem to suggest.

It's really no different than cabotage laws, originally implemented for shipping before airlines even existed, then applied to airlines when they came along. It's about ensureing there will be domestic caacity when geopolitical events cause foreign capacity to be unavailable.

And all the discussion about 'cant have European cheese' is just a red herring. We buy European cheese all the time here, pick it up at 'The Dutch Store', they have lots of inventory. I can get it at Superstore and Safeway as well, but they dont have the big chunks we like to buy, 1/4 of the wheel. Buying the European stuff at Superstore and Safeway is horribly expensive in very small chunks, but where we purchase it, not even much more than domestic cheese, runs about a 15% premium over Armstrong Cheddar, which is reasonable considering the amount of shipping involved.

[cdnavater]

Most of the folks going on about the dairy dont understand the supply management system, and think it's all about the $$$. It is not, like the name suggests, it's about managing supply, to ensure a consistent supply at a consistent price, year round. It's more about making sure young children have access to milk for drinking while growing up, than it is about the farmers themselves. It is the reason supply management was originally implemented in the way it was. In the 50's and 60's, for many parts of Canada, milk was essentially a seasonal commodity based on the natural calving cycle of the dairy herd, with milk in short supply thru the latter part of the winter. The use it or lose it nature of the quota system essentially forced dairy herd management to change such that the supply became consistent.

To see a real world current example of the supply management system working well, look no farther than the poultry market for eggs. In Canada, the quota system ensured that our egg flocks are many, and dispersed. The unregulated environment in the US allowed for massive consolidation such that large operations house upwards of 2 million laying hens in a single facility. Enter bird flu to a few of the large operations, and now there is a huge shortage of eggs, which is not quickly and easily corrected. The hatcheries dont have the capacity to produce the required number of birds on short notice, and even if they did, it takes months from hatch till a hen is laying. Yes, we had flocks decimated by bird flu in Canada, but, the nature of a system based on many smaller producers rather than a few very large ones meant, losing a few flocks was not nearly as big of a shock to the supply chain. I was in Superstore today, bought a flat of eggs 2 1/2 dozen eggs for 10 bucks, equivalent to $7us. In many parts of the US today, 7 bucks wont buy a dozen eggs. This is an example of the supply management system doing exactly what it's intended to do, consistent supply at a consistent price for the Canadian population, year round.

Supply management is about consistent supply, food security for the population, it's not about gouging for the bucks as some seem to suggest.

It's really no different than cabotage laws, originally implemented for shipping before airlines even existed, then applied to airlines when they came along. It's about ensureing there will be domestic caacity when geopolitical events cause foreign capacity to be unavailable.

And all the discussion about 'cant have European cheese' is just a red herring. We buy European cheese all the time here, pick it up at 'The Dutch Store', they have lots of inventory. I can get it at Superstore and Safeway as well, but they dont have the big chunks we like to buy, 1/4 of the wheel. Buying the European stuff at Superstore and Safeway is horribly expensive in very small chunks, but where we purchase it, not even much more than domestic cheese, runs about a 15% premium over Armstrong Cheddar, which is reasonable considering the amount of shipping involved.

I thought I read big corporations own a big chunk of the milk production, so it’s not like the small farms aren’t being bought up.
To fix the possibility of bird flu wiping out a huge chunk of the supply, easy fix. Don’t licence egg farms over x amount of the supply chain on a single property, if big corps want to take over, they will need to buy more land and keep a separate operation. Helps them too, bird flu won’t wipe out there entire operation

[altiplano]

Average dairy farm in Canada has 99 cows and $250k net income.

A dairy cow quota is worth what, $25k?
So $2.5M is cattle assets + land + equipment +$250/year NET. Sounds like they're doing alright. (Not begrudging farmers at all, but they're certainly not living in poverty.)

Farm life is all a write off too. Don't pay yourself much because then you get taxed, but everything is paid for out of the business. House, utilities, trucks, fuel, day to day life...

[altiplano]

And all the discussion about 'cant have European cheese' is just a red herring. We buy European cheese all the time here, pick it up at 'The Dutch Store', they have lots of inventory. I can get it at Superstore and Safeway as well, but they dont have the big chunks we like to buy, 1/4 of the wheel. Buying the European stuff at Superstore and Safeway is horribly expensive in very small chunks, but where we purchase it, not even much more than domestic cheese, runs about a 15% premium over Armstrong Cheddar, which is reasonable considering the amount of shipping involved.

I go into the local small butcher shop when I visit my friends in France, pick up a small beef roast, enough for 4 adults and 3 kids, 500 grams of cheese from local farms, fresh baguette, a bottle of wine, and a couple other things and I'm out the door for €20-25. In Canada I couldn't get the cheese alone for that, or that piece of meat, or that bottle of wine...

Whoever we're protecting? However we're doing it? We're doing it wrong. Life should be better and more affordable for Canadians.

We have the lowest population density, the most farmable land, most of the water, and most of the fertilizer on this planet. There's no reason that we shouldn't be growing an abundance of high quality affordable food for Canadians.

[goldeneagle]

I thought I read big corporations own a big chunk of the milk production,

Dunno how it is out east, but out west, that's not the case. The dairy farms tend to be family operations, most milking well under 200 head of cattle. The dairy processors, that's another issue, many of the once abundant smaller operations have been absorbed by the larger corporations, but they are not the producers, they just get the raw milk from the producers, and turn it into the products you buy off the store shelf. they are processing and distribution. Gotta wonder if the folks you are reading confuse processing with production.

Out here we used to have Palm Dairies, Dairyland, and a host of others. Today there has been a lot of consolidation, so in our area here on the island for milk we only see two now, Dairyland and Island Farms (which is a co-op owned by farmers on Vancouver Island). I was recently under the impression they had been taken over by Saputo, but am told now that's not the case, it was Dairyland that Saputo absorbed.

Farm life is all a write off too. Don't pay yourself much because then you get taxed, but everything is paid for out of the business. House, utilities, trucks, fuel, day to day life...

What a bunch of misinformed hooey. I can say with certainty, as I own and operate a farm. Yes it's true, our trucks used for the farm are indeed a business expense, as is the power bill for the outbuildings. Absolutely not the house, or the personal vehicles not needed for farm operations. With farm plates on the truck it's not even allowed to use that vehicle to drive the kids to school, stated very clearly in the insurance policy. Our house gets treated no differently than anybody else that has an office in the home, we get a credit only for a small portion of the power, phone, etc, same as anybody else that has a home office. As for those day to day life things you mention, none of that can go into the deductible pile of invoices. I've been thru the audit more than once, I'm very aware of what can and cannot be added to the deductibles invoice pile. It can get fun trying to explain to the auditor that a few grocery bills are valid because we were feeding crew during harvest. Suffice it to say, caused us enough hassle during the first audit, never bothered to even put those invoices in the pile after that.

The other tax break we get, property taxes are reduced for land in food production, but that's a provincial thing and varies by province. In the BC case, gotta have gross revenues from farm sales that meet a percentage of the land value before the land will be re-classified as 'farm' for tax purposes. In our case that's 2500 plus 5% of the value of the land exceeding 4 hectares, To some that sounds like a fairly low bar, but, if you have 40 acres in blueberries in the lower mainland, gonna need a very substantial amount of revenue off that land to keep your farm classification valid. In the more outlying areas where land is less expensive, it's possible from a good hay crop, but you'll be in trouble if you get two successive years of poor yields. The worst case, get multiple successive years of revenue shortfall, then you get re-classified as 'hobby farm', and they will come for back taxes on prior years.

People often ask me why I own and operate a farm, in addition to an engineering firm. My answer is fairly strait forward, I know lots of folks in the hi tech biz, they buy a gym membership to go work out and stay in shape. I bought a farm, it gives me plenty of workout, keeps me in shape and healthy. But if I look at it from just a financial perspective, woulda been much better off pouring that cash into an S&P based index fund and just sit back, likely earn a better return. For us, it's a lifestyle choice, we like the area we are in, and take pleasure in producing an in demand food crop for our local market. I do come from a family of farmers, so some would say 'it is in the blood'. I have a second cousin running multiple sections of grain on the prairies, another running a fairly large pork operation, and a cousin milking a hundred dairy cattle in Europe, an operation he inherited from my uncle, who inherited from my grandparents.

I think it's safe to say we know a little more about farm operations than most on this thread.

[altiplano]

You need a better accountant. When we were involved in ranching all the food was all paid for because the staff has to eat, the house and all the outbuildings was part of the farm mortgage and written off. All the trucks were part of the operation, farm plates or not and fuel marked or not was a write off, we got preferred electricity and water rates and better property tax rates on the whole property. YMMV.

[digits_]

You need a better accountant. When we were involved in ranching all the food was all paid for because the staff has to eat, the house and all the outbuildings was part of the farm mortgage and written off. All the trucks were part of the operation, farm plates or not and fuel marked or not was a write off, we got preferred electricity and water rates and better property tax rates on the whole property. YMMV.

Did you pass audits with that setup?

Did you write off all those personal expenses but compensated them somewhere else by considering it part of your income?

it seems very unlikely you'd pass audits where you write off all your vehicles and your complete house without any compensation for the personal use. Sounds like some important details might be missing.