Hydro Quebec buys ATR 72-600's

[birdsofafeather]

https://www.atr-aircraft.com/news/atr-c ... in-canada/

With their Q400's now 20 years old and their -300 turning 30 next year, there is only one option out there right now.

It'll be interesting to see who manages the fleet. In 2021, long-time Dash 8 operator Air Inuit won the contract to operate and manage their Dash 8 fleet. Perhaps Canadian North (EIC)????

[Dry Guy]

Buy Canadian

[rigpiggy]

Chances are the PQ will have these converted to Borate Bombers

[Dias]

Buy Canadian

Seaspan started building our new $3.2 billion ice breakers this week too. They are American despite what they try to portray.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Chances are the PQ will have these converted to Borate Bombers

Chances were strong that you indulged in a few too many adult beverages prior to posting your drivel.

TPC

[Jean-Pierre]

Chances are the PQ will have these converted to Borate Bombers

Chances were strong that you indulged in a few too many adult beverages prior to posting your drivel.

TPC

I don't know about borate bombers? What makes them controversial?

[N181CS]

Maybe they want to get into these machines.

The FF72 amphibious ATR
https://positive-aviation.com


https://youtu.be/Rq3nre_E_6g?

[rigpiggy]

Chances are the PQ will have these converted to Borate Bombers

Chances were strong that you indulged in a few too many adult beverages prior to posting your drivel.

TPC

Well considering that bc, ab, and sask are all transitioning to the q400 Bomber. probably not so much

[goldeneagle]

Does hydro use the dash for bombing ? Or for moving people around ? If the former, they probably want more than a cgi simulation like the videos in this thread, probably want an actual airplane that can do the job. If the latter, why are folks thinking about bombers ?

[Dias]

It'd probably be much cheaper. CL415's are $40 million.

[N181CS]

Hydro uses their planes to move people and cargo (not sure how much cargo) to their remote generating stations. The province uses theirs as an air ambulance and moving people.

The FF72, that’s funny. I want to see it. Like the Aztec on floats.

[rigpiggy]

The ATR would suck for scooping. #1 power to weight ratio, #2 drag from floats,#3 stall speed, #4 extra weight of float and attach fittings

[goldeneagle]

still trying to understand why you folks are going on about scoopers for a job of moving people...

[N181CS]

Squawk 7500

The FF72 albeit ugly as sin, the numbers they give are not too bad. Especially if you’re talking about used aircraft, as most fire bombers seem to be. Numbers look good. 280 kts or so at FL180. 8000 litres to the 415s 6000. Punch in some beaching areas up north. This could be an affordable and most important available alternative.

Also worth noting is the next French entry, the clean sheet Fregate F100 waterbomber. Thanks no doubt to the excellent decisions made in Canadian Aviation once again…

https://hynaero.com/en/

[goingnowherefast]

Did anyone even look at the numbers for the ATR on floats? It's only 2000lbs heavier, and slows down only 15kts. Sure it's got more power, but it's just removing the de-rate on the same engine. Meaning altitude performance is unaffected. 15kt loss in TAS, yeah right.

Aerodynamic destabilizing effect of floats, on that tiny ATR tail with higher rated takeoff power, Vmc will extremely high.

It's going to be an unflyable pig

[birdsofafeather]

Did anyone even look at the numbers for the ATR on floats? It's only 2000lbs heavier, and slows down only 15kts. Sure it's got more power, but it's just removing the de-rate on the same engine. Meaning altitude performance is unaffected. 15kt loss in TAS, yeah right.

Aerodynamic destabilizing effect of floats, on that tiny ATR tail with higher rated takeoff power, Vmc will extremely high.

It's going to be an unflyable pig

Still flying in 2024!!!!

DC3onfloats2024.JPG (54.14 KiB) Viewed 922 times

[Dry Guy]

Still flying in 2024!!!!

DC3onfloats2024.JPG

Imagine losing an engine

[TeePeeCreeper]

Never in many years of browsing AvCanada have I seen this kind of thread slide. It’s epic!

For the record,

Hydro Quebec’s planes are utilized and managed by Hydro Quebec themselves. They are there to hot shot parts and to do crew changes. They are certainly not going to modify their newly acquired -72 to fight wild fires. It’s not in their mandate… not to mention this -72 thing is still in the workings and certainly hasn't received type approval and won’t for several years. (Yes the -72 is certified but this new concept of operating it on floats isn’t. I don’t think it ever will. I can see the -72 being converted for land based tanker ops though)

The “Québec’s” as they are known stateside are run by the Service Aérien Gouvernemental. This is the provincial branch of the air service whom operate a mix of 14 CL-215, 215T and 415’s. They also own and managed the provincial air ambulance service with Dash 8’s and Challengers. Additionally, they also manage all the police helicopters in the province.

Back to the topic at hand shall we?

What kind of backlash will the Legault government face after having a provincially governed entity purchasing the ATR vs. A Canadian counterpart?

All the best, and I hope this post clears up many misconceptions and thread drifts!

[Daniel Cooper]

I don't think it's thread drift. There is a clear path posted for these to be converted into water bombers one day by putting them on floats.

[N181CS]

It was already mentioned that Hydro uses their planes for their business. The SOPFU is totally separate and everyone knows hydro is not actually going to be converting their 72s into fire fighting rigs.

As for VMC on the 72, that will definitely be an interesting question. But lose an engine on the AT802 and where does that leave you. Fire flying is super dangerous. I like how the Asian large scoopers like the US2 have 4 engines.

[Victory]

A US2 is $160 million. I think I'd rather have 40 AT802s than 1 US2.

[goingnowherefast]

It was already mentioned that Hydro uses their planes for their business. The SOPFU is totally separate and everyone knows hydro is not actually going to be converting their 72s into fire fighting rigs.

As for VMC on the 72, that will definitely be an interesting question. But lose an engine on the AT802 and where does that leave you. Fire flying is super dangerous. I like how the Asian large scoopers like the US2 have 4 engines.

Lose an engine on a twin below Vmc, or 1/2 the chance of losing the engine on a single. I'll take the single, thanks.

Dash-8s of any variety aren't new anymore. I'm sure they'd love to buy some brand new "Dash-9s", or "Dash 8 NGs" to keep it Canadian. Those just don't exist. One need a regional sized aircraft to fly on gravel? The only new build option is ATR.

[Daniel Cooper]

Would you buy new or used? I mean if you weren't buying with Alberta's money.

[goingnowherefast]

Can one even get a used ATR-72-600?

In a perfect world, one would want a fleet that's as similar as the needs allow. Everything from maintenance to pilot training and procedures are simplified, cheaper and easier. Currently they have a mixed variety of 3 Dash-8s.

Assuming the current and predicted future needs can be met with a similar fleet, I'd order new a fleet of 3 brand new ATR-72-600. Im sure it would take a couple years of waiting to get the planes due to production backlog. That would give me time to ensure the runways are top notch and long enough (ATRs are gravel capable, but a bit more sensitive and use a fair bit of runway). Hangars are tall enough (the 72 is taller than a Dash-8-300, unsure of the -400) and other longer term infrastructure projects to properly support the new fleet type.