Multi IFR training

[astech]

Hey folks,

My school's twin went down for maintenance a couple weeks ago with about 4hrs left of training for me to do for Group 1 with not enough time once it's fixed before it takes off for a contract out east. It will not be available till July.

I called all schools with multi trainers in SK and they're booked into the late summer, pretty much all of AB is booked into the fall-winter. Gonna be calling the MB schools here right away.

You all know of any other schools in the prairies that might have slots available for a guy to quickly wrap up their rating or is it just going to be a waiting game till mid-summer? Is it worth doing a Group 3 and applying to any single IFR ops? I would imagine that would be a significant disadvantage to the guys with a Group 1.

Thanks.

[careerpilot?]

Try Jetpro out of Josephburg. They are excellent instructors with airline and military backgrounds, and the airplane is beautiful. Wait list is relatively short, especially if you’re already close to finished.

http://www.jetpro.ca/

[astech]

Try Jetpro out of Josephburg. They are excellent instructors with airline and military backgrounds, and the airplane is beautiful. Wait list is relatively short, especially if you’re already close to finished.

http://www.jetpro.ca/

Thank's careerpilot, I'll give them a shout.

astech

[gilbertmartin]

Maybe reach out to some smaller flying clubs or private multi-engine instructors around the Prairies—sometimes they’ve got last-minute spots. You could also grab a Group 3 and keep flying single‑engine IFR while you wait, though big operators do tend to favour Group 1.

[huli_zcg]

Try Jetpro out of Josephburg. They are excellent instructors with airline and military backgrounds, and the airplane is beautiful. Wait list is relatively short, especially if you’re already close to finished.

http://www.jetpro.ca/

it looks so high end.
do you know its price ?
I don't think I can afford it. but just curious.

[careerpilot?]

Try Jetpro out of Josephburg. They are excellent instructors with airline and military backgrounds, and the airplane is beautiful. Wait list is relatively short, especially if you’re already close to finished.

http://www.jetpro.ca/

it looks so high end.
do you know its price ?
I don't think I can afford it. but just curious.

Price is surprisingly reasonable given the equipment and quality of the training. A bit more expensive than a flight school, but not as much as you’d think. Also instead of a low time instructor in a 70s Seneca you get a very experienced instructor in an airplane with known icing and weather radar equipment. There’s also the excellent avionics and single power lever that make the airplane very easy to fly on your group 1 ride.

I did my checkride in a blizzard with 1/2 mile vis and 25kts of wind. Threw on the icing kit and went flying, where I would have been cancelled anywhere else with an old Seneca. To be fair I was a conversion from a Group 4 and am an instrument instructor and check pilot for the military, I’m not sure they would have sent someone on their first IFR ticket ride in those conditions haha.

It also sounds like you don’t need a full syallabus, so I guess it’s up to you whether the extra cost is worth it. It isn’t significantly higher than your average flight school.

[CpnCrunch]

Price is surprisingly reasonable given the equipment and quality of the training. A bit more expensive than a flight school, but not as much as you’d think. Also instead of a low time instructor in a 70s Seneca you get a very experienced instructor in an airplane with known icing and weather radar equipment. There’s also the excellent avionics and single power lever that make the airplane very easy to fly on your group 1 ride.

I did my checkride in a blizzard with 1/2 mile vis and 25kts of wind. Threw on the icing kit and went flying, where I would have been cancelled anywhere else with an old Seneca. To be fair I was a conversion from a Group 4 and am an instrument instructor and check pilot for the military, I’m not sure they would have sent someone on their first IFR ticket ride in those conditions haha.

It also sounds like you don’t need a full syallabus, so I guess it’s up to you whether the extra cost is worth it. It isn’t significantly higher than your average flight school.

Just post the price including instructor. For comparison, Victoria Flying Club is $535/hr dual on a Seminole.

https://www.flyvfc.com/rates

DA62 is very nice, but seems to have a high Vmc, which would put me off (76kts flaps up, 70kt flaps down).

[digits_]

Price is surprisingly reasonable given the equipment and quality of the training. A bit more expensive than a flight school, but not as much as you’d think.

Cool, so why not share the rate?

Also instead of a low time instructor in a 70s Seneca you get a very experienced instructor in an airplane with known icing and weather radar equipment. There’s also the excellent avionics and single power lever that make the airplane very easy to fly on your group 1 ride.

I did my checkride in a blizzard with 1/2 mile vis and 25kts of wind. Threw on the icing kit and went flying, where I would have been cancelled anywhere else with an old Seneca. To be fair I was a conversion from a Group 4 and am an instrument instructor and check pilot for the military, I’m not sure they would have sent someone on their first IFR ticket ride in those conditions haha.

It also sounds like you don’t need a full syallabus, so I guess it’s up to you whether the extra cost is worth it. It isn’t significantly higher than your average flight school.

I am wondering, and possibly a little concerned, as to how training or a ride in icing conditions would work. Much will depend on the exact definition of blizzard, but I assume it means you're running the TKS system the whole flight? Does that not add a significant cost to the training?

Due to the nature of flight training, you likely spend the whole flight in the icing conditions. Is the DA62 designed for that? FIKI is fine, but it usually comes with a caution to leave icing conditions as soon as practical.


To add, is that the same guy that was advertising a DA62 out of Edmonton here a few years ago? Might be interesting for prospective students to read this topic and get some insight into the personality of the manager (owner?): http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... hilit=DA62

[careerpilot?]

Cool, so why not share the rate?

I didn’t want to share a rate that might not be current anymore, so I sent it via PM. At the time I did the training earlier this year, it was $500/hr for the plane and $100/hr for the instructor. Could be different now. Instructing is a side gig for these guys and I think they do it because they like it, rather than for the money.

I am wondering, and possibly a little concerned, as to how training or a ride in icing conditions would work. Much will depend on the exact definition of blizzard, but I assume it means you're running the TKS system the whole flight? Does that not add a significant cost to the training?

Due to the nature of flight training, you likely spend the whole flight in the icing conditions. Is the DA62 designed for that? FIKI is fine, but it usually comes with a caution to leave icing conditions as soon as practical.


To add, is that the same guy that was advertising a DA62 out of Edmonton here a few years ago? Might be interesting for prospective students to read this topic and get some insight into the personality of the manager (owner?): http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... hilit=DA62

Fair question, I guess I should expand on that story. We were in and out of ice and it was a fairly short ride (Josephburg to Villeneuve and back). It was very cold that day (below the worst icing bands), and forecasting was for the icing to be a lot more isolated than it turned out to be, it ended up being light gusting moderate for short stints. We ran the TKS on normal and it had no issue keeping up.

The key point being that any other flight school in the area would have cancelled on that day. We were able to press and get the x completed when any other school would have had to cancel.

Not sure whether that’s the same guy. Everything they did was above board though.

[digits_]

The key point being that any other flight school in the area would have cancelled on that day. We were able to press and get the x completed when any other school would have had to cancel.

It is indeed the key point. I appreciate the extra information. Did you do single engine work in the icing conditions as well?

I don't know many operators, even with fully deiced turbine King Airs that would do training or PPC rides in actual icing conditions.

So while others might have cancelled, I can't help but wonder if perhaps this school should have too?

Anyways, I wasn't there. I just think it might not be the selling point it appears to be at first glance.

[careerpilot?]

The key point being that any other flight school in the area would have cancelled on that day. We were able to press and get the x completed when any other school would have had to cancel.

It is indeed the key point. I appreciate the extra information. Did you do single engine work in the icing conditions as well?

I don't know many operators, even with fully deiced turbine King Airs that would do training or PPC rides in actual icing conditions.

So while others might have cancelled, I can't help but wonder if perhaps this school should have too?

Anyways, I wasn't there. I just think it might not be the selling point it appears to be at first glance.

If you’re really that concerned, here are the historical GFA and METARs. Feel free to Monday morning quarterback, I’m of the opinion that we should all be learning always and I’m open to other’s opinions, but with years of military IFR flying I wasn’t overly concerned about the conditions.

http://gfaarchive.info/gfaDisplay.php?r ... Offset=000

https://www.ogimet.com/display_metars2. ... &send=send

It was cold enough that there was no forecast icing above the trace/light always implied on the GFA, though airmanship would dictate one probably shouldn’t go into cloud in an aircraft without icing kit. The fact the aircraft was well equipped allowed us to safely press. We had plenty of “outs” as we were in the Edmonton area with ILS’s all around within 10mins flying time. If there had been forecast moderate ice it would have been a scrub for sure.

In the end there was a bit more icing than forecast, but the TKS handled it just fine on the normal (lowest) setting. For an IFR ride the strong winds were the greater challenge.

The only single engine work was the simulated emergency shutdown for the last approach. Clearly for a multi ride with multiple engine out scenarios this would not have been a good day.

I stand by my original point: the equipment on the aircraft allowed us to safely press when others would have had to cancel. Not to mention I think there’s value in making those real world decisions where the answer isn’t a simple “there could be ice, we have to cancel.” One has to more carefully consider the options, what their ‘outs’ are, the capabilities of their equipment, etc.

[astech]

Cool, so why not share the rate?

I didn’t want to share a rate that might not be current anymore, so I sent it via PM. At the time I did the training earlier this year, it was $500/hr for the plane and $100/hr for the instructor. Could be different now. Instructing is a side gig for these guys and I think they do it because they like it, rather than for the money.

I am wondering, and possibly a little concerned, as to how training or a ride in icing conditions would work. Much will depend on the exact definition of blizzard, but I assume it means you're running the TKS system the whole flight? Does that not add a significant cost to the training?

Due to the nature of flight training, you likely spend the whole flight in the icing conditions. Is the DA62 designed for that? FIKI is fine, but it usually comes with a caution to leave icing conditions as soon as practical.


To add, is that the same guy that was advertising a DA62 out of Edmonton here a few years ago? Might be interesting for prospective students to read this topic and get some insight into the personality of the manager (owner?): viewtopic.php?t=152703&hilit=DA62

Fair question, I guess I should expand on that story. We were in and out of ice and it was a fairly short ride (Josephburg to Villeneuve and back). It was very cold that day (below the worst icing bands), and forecasting was for the icing to be a lot more isolated than it turned out to be, it ended up being light gusting moderate for short stints. We ran the TKS on normal and it had no issue keeping up.

The key point being that any other flight school in the area would have cancelled on that day. We were able to press and get the x completed when any other school would have had to cancel.

Not sure whether that’s the same guy. Everything they did was above board though.

The rates are still accurate. Got started with them on the weekend.

[careerpilot?]

The rates are still accurate. Got started with them on the weekend.

Great!

[sharky26]

The rates are still accurate. Got started with them on the weekend.

Hey Astech,

Any update? How's the school/plane? so far would you recommend it?
Do they have an available accommodation?

Thanks