Has Air Canada Suspended All Upcoming Ground School Sessions?

[Blueontop]

A reclusive, infamous junior flat pay yes voter has been sited in its natural habitat

[Blueontop]

I did less than 900 as an FO. How do I know this? Because last year I got the 900hr guarantee top up. You are also missing the point. Year 2 FO pay is $85k/year, not $100k+. That is guaranteed. You cannot count extraneous flying/duties because it is not always guaranteed. Why are you so bent on inflating the salaries to something they aren't? I'm genuinely confused.

are you year 2 ? Because year 1 and 2 are MIN 75 credit a month wich would make you never get the 900 top up.. were you on parental ? Sick leave maybe ?

I'll admit that, the BARE BARE BARE minimum will be $85,329 Based on 0 training event, 0 block growth on any month.

And how many in year 2 are still on reserve? Essentially zero block growth potential depending on fleet..

Per diems ARE NOT income.

Nothing above 85k is guaranteed so doesn’t exist to a bank or lender.

[Man_in_the_sky]

are you year 2 ? Because year 1 and 2 are MIN 75 credit a month wich would make you never get the 900 top up.. were you on parental ? Sick leave maybe ?

I'll admit that, the BARE BARE BARE minimum will be $85,329 Based on 0 training event, 0 block growth on any month.

Right, and that's the number that is guaranteed. Anything beyond that is not. So telling people the pay is $100k is misleading. I still don't understand why you are so intent on inflating the numbers to make it seem like the pay is higher than it is. As mentioned, this mentality is why we stall in increasing our pay rates. Please stop trying to inflate the numbers. It serves ZERO benefit.

MLO wrote a letter for 100k

Bank credited 100K toward my load.. You can say whatever you want.

[Dias]

Please don't take out any loans right now as a new hire.

[PositiveRate27]

As someone who’s been through several booms and busts at this place, I humbly offer my experiences so you can better plan for the transition here.

The only thing you’re ever guaranteed at this company is your hourly rate x 900 hours a year. (Even then, I’ve seen less than that).

Before I came to AC I was really struggling with the thought of the 50% paycut. I was told the same story by multiple people “yeah on paper the pay sucks but really you fly way more than the minimum and the per diems help out a lot too.” I was also told “the profit share for a new hire is $5k-$7k a year and that’s been pretty much a guarantee for years so that helps too.”

In my first year here ACPA pro-rated the profit share payout because there were so many new hires that year. The $7k I was told about during my interview/ACPA night/Management night etc ended up being $600 before tax. Due to that and covid I received one full profit share payout in my first 6 years at AC.

Speaking of covid. When it hit, ACPA rushed in to give the company 55hr hour pay concessions for ALL pilots, even ones on flat pay. Formula pay pilots took at 10 hour pay cut from their 65 hour minimum monthly guarantee to 55hrs, while flat pay pilots took a 20hr cut from 75 to 55. There was essentially zero flying and therefore zero per diems. I literally have a paystub from the Covid era of $300 net.

Ok ok, at this point you’re probably all thinking “but that’s a black swan event”.

How about the 737 grounding? There were doubts about what AC was obligated to pay pilots stuck on the 737 but ultimately they settled on 75hrs a month. With zero flying that meant zero per diems/VO for those pilots as well.

AC Cargo is another example. AC Cargo is not a success story. Low low block months are the name of the game there. If you get hired onto it, don’t expect 80hr + months and large per diem payouts.

Even the last 6 months have been exceptionally lean for hours on my fleet. I’ve been between 65-71hrs every single month since November of last year on my published block. Prior to the last 6 months I had never seen a month less than 74 hours with the exceptions of Covid. Most months were in the 80’s. I’ve had multiple months since last September stuck on rsv where there has been very little flying and per diem has been $300-$500 for the month. 70 hours plus $300 in per diem on RSV is a far far cry from an 82 hour and $1500 per diem block. Either of those could happen on any given month.

All this to say, it’s easy to get caught up in 80-85hr block months with high per diems and VO galore when the machine is humming along. The reality is the boom times are incredible to experience but only last 1-2 years and the next bust is always right around the corner. I’m not saying don’t come to AC, but don’t plan your life on 83 hrs a month with an occasional VO trip. Both of those have been extremely hard to find for the last half a year and the recession hasn’t even hit yet. If you budget for 75hrs and minimal per diem life will be much less stressful and when the boom times come it’ll be that much sweeter.

Just this guy’s $0.02

Cheers
PR

[Blueontop]

As someone who’s been through several booms and busts at this place, I humbly offer my experiences so you can better plan for the transition here.

The only thing you’re ever guaranteed at this company is your hourly rate x 900 hours a year. (Even then, I’ve seen less than that).

Before I came to AC I was really struggling with the thought of the 50% paycut. I was told the same story by multiple people “yeah on paper the pay sucks but really you fly way more than the minimum and the per diems help out a lot too.” I was also told “the profit share for a new hire is $5k-$7k a year and that’s been pretty much a guarantee for years so that helps too.”

In my first year here ACPA pro-rated the profit share payout because there were so many new hires that year. The $7k I was told about during my interview/ACPA night/Management night etc ended up being $600 before tax. Due to that and covid I received one full profit share payout in my first 6 years at AC.

Speaking of covid. When it hit, ACPA rushed in to give the company 55hr hour pay concessions for ALL pilots, even ones on flat pay. Formula pay pilots took at 10 hour pay cut from their 65 hour minimum monthly guarantee to 55hrs, while flat pay pilots took a 20hr cut from 75 to 55. There was essentially zero flying and therefore zero per diems. I literally have a paystub from the Covid era of $300 net.

Ok ok, at this point you’re probably all thinking “but that’s a black swan event”.

How about the 737 grounding? There were doubts about what AC was obligated to pay pilots stuck on the 737 but ultimately they settled on 75hrs a month. With zero flying that meant zero per diems/VO for those pilots as well.

AC Cargo is another example. AC Cargo is not a success story. Low low block months are the name of the game there. If you get hired onto it, don’t expect 80hr + months and large per diem payouts.

Even the last 6 months have been exceptionally lean for hours on my fleet. I’ve been between 65-71hrs every single month since November of last year on my published block. Prior to the last 6 months I had never seen a month less than 74 hours with the exceptions of Covid. Most months were in the 80’s. I’ve had multiple months since last September stuck on rsv where there has been very little flying and per diem has been $300-$500 for the month. 70 hours plus $300 in per diem on RSV is a far far cry from an 82 hour and $1500 per diem block. Either of those could happen on any given month.

All this to say, it’s easy to get caught up in 80-85hr block months with high per diems and VO galore when the machine is humming along. The reality is the boom times are incredible to experience but only last 1-2 years and the next bust is always right around the corner. I’m not saying don’t come to AC, but don’t plan your life on 83 hrs a month with an occasional VO trip. Both of those have been extremely hard to find for the last half a year and the recession hasn’t even hit yet. If you budget for 75hrs and minimal per diem life will be much less stressful and when the boom times come it’ll be that much sweeter.

Just this guy’s $0.02

Cheers
PR

Thank you for that detailed, measured reality check for some on here that need a lesson. Ahem cough cough

[Man_in_the_sky]

As someone who’s been through several booms and busts at this place, I humbly offer my experiences so you can better plan for the transition here.

The only thing you’re ever guaranteed at this company is your hourly rate x 900 hours a year. (Even then, I’ve seen less than that).

Before I came to AC I was really struggling with the thought of the 50% paycut. I was told the same story by multiple people “yeah on paper the pay sucks but really you fly way more than the minimum and the per diems help out a lot too.” I was also told “the profit share for a new hire is $5k-$7k a year and that’s been pretty much a guarantee for years so that helps too.”

In my first year here ACPA pro-rated the profit share payout because there were so many new hires that year. The $7k I was told about during my interview/ACPA night/Management night etc ended up being $600 before tax. Due to that and covid I received one full profit share payout in my first 6 years at AC.

Speaking of covid. When it hit, ACPA rushed in to give the company 55hr hour pay concessions for ALL pilots, even ones on flat pay. Formula pay pilots took at 10 hour pay cut from their 65 hour minimum monthly guarantee to 55hrs, while flat pay pilots took a 20hr cut from 75 to 55. There was essentially zero flying and therefore zero per diems. I literally have a paystub from the Covid era of $300 net.

Ok ok, at this point you’re probably all thinking “but that’s a black swan event”.

How about the 737 grounding? There were doubts about what AC was obligated to pay pilots stuck on the 737 but ultimately they settled on 75hrs a month. With zero flying that meant zero per diems/VO for those pilots as well.

AC Cargo is another example. AC Cargo is not a success story. Low low block months are the name of the game there. If you get hired onto it, don’t expect 80hr + months and large per diem payouts.

Even the last 6 months have been exceptionally lean for hours on my fleet. I’ve been between 65-71hrs every single month since November of last year on my published block. Prior to the last 6 months I had never seen a month less than 74 hours with the exceptions of Covid. Most months were in the 80’s. I’ve had multiple months since last September stuck on rsv where there has been very little flying and per diem has been $300-$500 for the month. 70 hours plus $300 in per diem on RSV is a far far cry from an 82 hour and $1500 per diem block. Either of those could happen on any given month.

All this to say, it’s easy to get caught up in 80-85hr block months with high per diems and VO galore when the machine is humming along. The reality is the boom times are incredible to experience but only last 1-2 years and the next bust is always right around the corner. I’m not saying don’t come to AC, but don’t plan your life on 83 hrs a month with an occasional VO trip. Both of those have been extremely hard to find for the last half a year and the recession hasn’t even hit yet. If you budget for 75hrs and minimal per diem life will be much less stressful and when the boom times come it’ll be that much sweeter.

Just this guy’s $0.02

Cheers
PR

Thank you for that detailed, measured reality check for some on here that need a lesson. Ahem cough cough

I read that and understand your point

[flying4dollars]

I'll admit that, the BARE BARE BARE minimum will be $85,329 Based on 0 training event, 0 block growth on any month.

Right, and that's the number that is guaranteed. Anything beyond that is not. So telling people the pay is $100k is misleading. I still don't understand why you are so intent on inflating the numbers to make it seem like the pay is higher than it is. As mentioned, this mentality is why we stall in increasing our pay rates. Please stop trying to inflate the numbers. It serves ZERO benefit.

MLO wrote a letter for 100k

Bank credited 100K toward my load.. You can say whatever you want.

I'm still curious why you're so committed to inflating what the actual year 2 pay is? What's in it for you?

[thepoors]

Right, and that's the number that is guaranteed. Anything beyond that is not. So telling people the pay is $100k is misleading. I still don't understand why you are so intent on inflating the numbers to make it seem like the pay is higher than it is. As mentioned, this mentality is why we stall in increasing our pay rates. Please stop trying to inflate the numbers. It serves ZERO benefit.

MLO wrote a letter for 100k

Bank credited 100K toward my load.. You can say whatever you want.

I'm still curious why you're so committed to inflating what the actual year 2 pay is? What's in it for you?

Shills gonna shill.

[sstaurus]

It's just natural for some who are already here to want to make it seem better than it really is. Gotta try and fix the cognitive dissonance... Just like how many commuters say "it's really not that bad"..... we all know it sucks!

[rudder]

It's just natural for some who are already here to want to make it seem better than it really is. Gotta try and fix the cognitive dissonance... Just like how many commuters say "it's really not that bad"..... we all know it sucks!

Working 16-18 days per month? Great!

Doing training on days off (blockholder)? Great!

Pay anniversary on date of successful line check (3-4 months after actual company start date)? Great!

First 2 years of hourly pay below $100? Great!

Yup. Some people can convince themselves of anything once they put the uniform on.

[Man_in_the_sky]

It's just natural for some who are already here to want to make it seem better than it really is. Gotta try and fix the cognitive dissonance... Just like how many commuters say "it's really not that bad"..... we all know it sucks!

Working 16-18 days per month? Great!

Doing training on days off (blockholder)? Great!

Pay anniversary on date of successful line check (3-4 months after actual company start date)? Great!

First 2 years of hourly pay below $100? Great!

Yup. Some people can convince themselves of anything once they put the uniform on.

And still, wear the uniform once maybw twice a month for the last 2 years..