Grievance update for the 285ish former Jazz pilots affected by Flow

[Tbayer2021]

Imagine shitting on the Jazz boomers/X-ers when you took a fucking seat at Scab … Jesus Christ

Yeah because at 2000 TT, you guys were picking your first 705 company based on politics!

Gotcha, man of valor, but voted for a B scale.

I Honestly don't care how much my opinion weight to your eyes, your judgement has been proven to be self centered anyway.

Good luck on your ULP, was the next meeting with the CIRB in Honolulu by the way ?

.......you literally just said you had the choice of Jazz or Sky, yet still chose to be a scab.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Imagine shitting on the Jazz boomers/X-ers when you took a fucking seat at Scab … Jesus Christ

Yeah because at 2000 TT, you guys were picking your first 705 company based on politics!

Gotcha, man of valor, but voted for a B scale.

I Honestly don't care how much my opinion weight to your eyes, your judgement has been proven to be self centered anyway.

Good luck on your ULP, was the next meeting with the CIRB in Honolulu by the way ?

.......you literally just said you had the choice of Jazz or Sky, yet still chose to be a scab.

Were you guys striking ?

Had the choice, went for Jet time, east base guarenteed and higher starting pay. You would of made the same choice, be honest

[Tbayer2021]

Yeah because at 2000 TT, you guys were picking your first 705 company based on politics!

Gotcha, man of valor, but voted for a B scale.

I Honestly don't care how much my opinion weight to your eyes, your judgement has been proven to be self centered anyway.

Good luck on your ULP, was the next meeting with the CIRB in Honolulu by the way ?

.......you literally just said you had the choice of Jazz or Sky, yet still chose to be a scab.

Were you guys striking ?

Had the choice, went for Jet time, east base guarenteed and higher starting pay. You would of made the same choice, be honest

Thats not the point. You insinuated not having a choice but to take Sky while having previously stated turning down Jazz. You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to justify your decision of taking the job that was specifically created to undercut Jazz. Still won't change the fact that you were part of the problem, however small.

As for me, none of the regionals paid enough so I skipped them completely and waited till I got a call from mainline. Was making more flying a caravan than you were flying your jet. Talk about chasing metal.

[Man_in_the_sky]

.......you literally just said you had the choice of Jazz or Sky, yet still chose to be a scab.

Were you guys striking ?

Had the choice, went for Jet time, east base guarenteed and higher starting pay. You would of made the same choice, be honest

Thats not the point. You insinuated not having a choice but to take Sky while having previously stated turning down Jazz. You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to justify your decision of taking the job that was specifically created to undercut Jazz. Still won't change the fact that you were part of the problem, however small.

As for me, none of the regionals paid enough so I skipped them completely and waited till I got a call from mainline. Was making more flying a caravan than you were flying your jet. Talk about chasing metal.

Happy for you, I was making more in 703 than at either Jazz or Sky... That's the beauty of aviation

[CaptDukeNukem]

.......you literally just said you had the choice of Jazz or Sky, yet still chose to be a scab.

Were you guys striking ?

Had the choice, went for Jet time, east base guarenteed and higher starting pay. You would of made the same choice, be honest

Thats not the point. You insinuated not having a choice but to take Sky while having previously stated turning down Jazz. You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to justify your decision of taking the job that was specifically created to undercut Jazz. Still won't change the fact that you were part of the problem, however small.

As for me, none of the regionals paid enough so I skipped them completely and waited till I got a call from mainline. Was making more flying a caravan than you were flying your jet. Talk about chasing metal.

Some of us didn’t have a choice. If you didn’t, then you’d still take a regional jet job. Here are the facts:

1) jazz sucks
2) jazz pilots signed a 17 year contract that got cucked within years. Aka. PAL

Jazz guys shit on sky pilots all day when they should be shitting on themselves . Don’t blame sky, blame jazz. They can’t even keep the 100% express flying going. Embarrassing.

[Blueontop]

The guaranteed east base alone for an eastern guy would have been enough to not really make much of a choice between sky or jazz. Throw in higher starting pay and jet time I agree most would have chosen the same. Maybe if jazz didn’t play this Russian roulette with bases and/or equipment than that might even put the field. Commuting sucks balls and adds another cost to already abysmal pay.

[cdnavater]

Were you guys striking ?

Had the choice, went for Jet time, east base guarenteed and higher starting pay. You would of made the same choice, be honest

Thats not the point. You insinuated not having a choice but to take Sky while having previously stated turning down Jazz. You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to justify your decision of taking the job that was specifically created to undercut Jazz. Still won't change the fact that you were part of the problem, however small.

As for me, none of the regionals paid enough so I skipped them completely and waited till I got a call from mainline. Was making more flying a caravan than you were flying your jet. Talk about chasing metal.

Some of us didn’t have a choice. If you didn’t, then you’d still take a regional jet job. Here are the facts:

1) jazz sucks
2) jazz pilots signed a 17 year contract that got cucked within years. Aka. PAL

Jazz guys shit on sky pilots all day when they should be shitting on themselves . Don’t blame sky, blame jazz. They can’t even keep the 100% express flying going. Embarrassing.

Im not going to rehash all the history of the damage Sky did to Jazz but I have a question
for you Duke, when Jazz absorbed Sky did you and most of your colleagues get a raise?

[cdnavater]

The guaranteed east base alone for an eastern guy would have been enough to not really make much of a choice between sky or jazz. Throw in higher starting pay and jet time I agree most would have chosen the same. Maybe if jazz didn’t play this Russian roulette with bases and/or equipment than that might even put the field. Commuting sucks balls and adds another cost to already abysmal pay.

This is what’s wrong with the aviation industry in Canada, pilots use whatever justification they can to get ahead personally without caring about anyone else!
The base justification is weak at best, most pilots have desired base before the end of initial training, and if your goal was AC, which I’m willing to bet for 99% of SR pilots it was, you have the same issue, base and equipment decided on seniority day, weak!
SR was a scab airline who’s sole purpose was to undermine Jazz pilots, that cannot be disputed or understated, any pilot who chose SR was absolutely 100% part of the problem but it’s not their fault, they are human, self preservation is just in our nature and AC played us all!

[Man_in_the_sky]

The guaranteed east base alone for an eastern guy would have been enough to not really make much of a choice between sky or jazz. Throw in higher starting pay and jet time I agree most would have chosen the same. Maybe if jazz didn’t play this Russian roulette with bases and/or equipment than that might even put the field. Commuting sucks balls and adds another cost to already abysmal pay.

This is what’s wrong with the aviation industry in Canada, pilots use whatever justification they can to get ahead personally without caring about anyone else!
The base justification is weak at best, most pilots have desired base before the end of initial training, and if your goal was AC, which I’m willing to bet for 99% of SR pilots it was, you have the same issue, base and equipment decided on seniority day, weak!
SR was a scab airline who’s sole purpose was to undermine Jazz pilots, that cannot be disputed or understated, any pilot who chose SR was absolutely 100% part of the problem but it’s not their fault, they are human, self preservation is just in our nature and AC played us all!

I’d argue it was a temporary solution for AC’s problem. When they were not required anymore, they got rid of it, while making sure all experienced SR pilots were keeping their DOH, while bringing experience and knowledge about the 175 to the group.

Would you switch base avatr if it meant a 10% raise for the whole group ? If you, don’t shit on anyone who took a decision based on where is the highest chance of having a decent QOL.

[Blueontop]

The guaranteed east base alone for an eastern guy would have been enough to not really make much of a choice between sky or jazz. Throw in higher starting pay and jet time I agree most would have chosen the same. Maybe if jazz didn’t play this Russian roulette with bases and/or equipment than that might even put the field. Commuting sucks balls and adds another cost to already abysmal pay.

This is what’s wrong with the aviation industry in Canada, pilots use whatever justification they can to get ahead personally without caring about anyone else!
The base justification is weak at best, most pilots have desired base before the end of initial training, and if your goal was AC, which I’m willing to bet for 99% of SR pilots it was, you have the same issue, base and equipment decided on seniority day, weak!
SR was a scab airline who’s sole purpose was to undermine Jazz pilots, that cannot be disputed or understated, any pilot who chose SR was absolutely 100% part of the problem but it’s not their fault, they are human, self preservation is just in our nature and AC played us all!

First of all, what profession doesn’t have everyone out for themselves? It’s call the rat race for a reason. Why are you always blaming other pilots and shitting all over them when the blame lies squarely on management who want you to argue over the crumbs they have let fall from their table. Russian roulette at any company is BS in this day and age. What other industry would survive like that. Hey come work for us, who the @#$! knows where you’ll live and what you’ll actually be doing! That’s part of the excitement!?

SR was a “scab” airline I guess but that is on management not just guys looking for work and feed their families. Further to that point, I stand by my original post. All high and mighty on you to take the position but say choosing to commute and all the extra cost and time away from home over not doing that for most is not much of a choice. Especially if it turns out that I’m paying for a crash pad and getting to and from and now the wife is leaving ya because you have no money and you are never home anyway. I know you commute and are the most pious pilot who’s ever graced the skies and would always sacrifice your qol for the “greater good” but unfortunately most have to secure themselves first. Sad but true.

I am the most ardent union supporter there is and I will walk lock step to secure the “greater good”. At least that’s how I felt until I was left in the dust by AC/ALPA agreement in October.

I really hope you can let some of your anger and bitterness to your fellow pilots go because they truly are not the reason you have been wronged in your career. It’s management that enjoys playing you off your colleagues while they cash their bonuses.

[troisrivieres]

All I know is the Hawaiian prince Claude has to go. 14 years is way too long for anyone to be a Chair. Can only imagine the corruption that must be going on

Hearing of paid Lincolns & trips to Hawaii?!

[genetic jack hammer]

All I know is the Hawaiian prince Claude has to go. 14 years is way too long for anyone to be a Chair. Can only imagine the corruption that must be going on

Hearing of paid Lincolns & trips to Hawaii?!

Four trips to Hawaii, for allegedly meeting the Hawaiian MEC, about some cargo operation using A330’s out of Cincinnati, crewed by jazz pilots. I’m sure the Jazz pilot group would be very interested in hearing details about this. Ask for details at the roadshow.

[cdnavater]

The guaranteed east base alone for an eastern guy would have been enough to not really make much of a choice between sky or jazz. Throw in higher starting pay and jet time I agree most would have chosen the same. Maybe if jazz didn’t play this Russian roulette with bases and/or equipment than that might even put the field. Commuting sucks balls and adds another cost to already abysmal pay.

This is what’s wrong with the aviation industry in Canada, pilots use whatever justification they can to get ahead personally without caring about anyone else!
The base justification is weak at best, most pilots have desired base before the end of initial training, and if your goal was AC, which I’m willing to bet for 99% of SR pilots it was, you have the same issue, base and equipment decided on seniority day, weak!
SR was a scab airline who’s sole purpose was to undermine Jazz pilots, that cannot be disputed or understated, any pilot who chose SR was absolutely 100% part of the problem but it’s not their fault, they are human, self preservation is just in our nature and AC played us all!

First of all, what profession doesn’t have everyone out for themselves? It’s call the rat race for a reason. Why are you always blaming other pilots and shitting all over them when the blame lies squarely on management who want you to argue over the crumbs they have let fall from their table. Russian roulette at any company is BS in this day and age. What other industry would survive like that. Hey come work for us, who the @#$! knows where you’ll live and what you’ll actually be doing! That’s part of the excitement!?

SR was a “scab” airline I guess but that is on management not just guys looking for work and feed their families. Further to that point, I stand by my original post. All high and mighty on you to take the position but say choosing to commute and all the extra cost and time away from home over not doing that for most is not much of a choice. Especially if it turns out that I’m paying for a crash pad and getting to and from and now the wife is leaving ya because you have no money and you are never home anyway. I know you commute and are the most pious pilot who’s ever graced the skies and would always sacrifice your qol for the “greater good” but unfortunately most have to secure themselves first. Sad but true.

I am the most ardent union supporter there is and I will walk lock step to secure the “greater good”. At least that’s how I felt until I was left in the dust by AC/ALPA agreement in October.

I really hope you can let some of your anger and bitterness to your fellow pilots go because they truly are not the reason you have been wronged in your career. It’s management that enjoys playing you off your colleagues while they cash their bonuses.

You bring up some good points but if you go back in the threads, you’ll see I don’t start it for the most part, they throw shade at Jazz pilots over the long term contract we have without any acknowledgment of the part they played to get us there

[Freshredmeat]

All I know is the Hawaiian prince Claude has to go. 14 years is way too long for anyone to be a Chair. Can only imagine the corruption that must be going on

Hearing of paid Lincolns & trips to Hawaii?!

Four trips to Hawaii, for allegedly meeting the Hawaiian MEC, about some cargo operation using A330’s out of Cincinnati, crewed by jazz pilots. I’m sure the Jazz pilot group would be very interested in hearing details about this. Ask for details at the roadshow.

4 Christmas parties in Hawaii were going to get Jazz pilots flying A330s.

Think how fucking dumb this is. You would have to be a total moron to think US immigration would ever allow such a scheme. Claude is just a next level hustler

[cdnavater]

All I know is the Hawaiian prince Claude has to go. 14 years is way too long for anyone to be a Chair. Can only imagine the corruption that must be going on

Hearing of paid Lincolns & trips to Hawaii?!

Four trips to Hawaii, for allegedly meeting the Hawaiian MEC, about some cargo operation using A330’s out of Cincinnati, crewed by jazz pilots. I’m sure the Jazz pilot group would be very interested in hearing details about this. Ask for details at the roadshow.

4 Christmas parties in Hawaii were going to get Jazz pilots flying A330s.

Think how fucking dumb this is. You would have to be a total moron to think US immigration would ever allow such a scheme. Claude is just a next level hustler

Remember when Thomas Cook set up a Canadian operation and Jazz pilots operated them, if it made sense for the Hawaiian operations to set up a Canadian op with a supply of experienced pilots, they would have done it! It’s really just paperwork and some office space.
The problem here is that the spreading of information without anything to substantiate it has caused a distrust, CB has done lots for Jazz pilots and should not be thrown under the bus, he has earned that much!
People are FORGETTING that everything CB did had to be approved by the local reps, therefore they are ALL complicit if there is any impropriety, also seem to be OVERLOOKED is the ABSOLUTE FACT that GR was abusing the flight release to his own personal gain and the union shut down the Flica option to see who’s doing what OT because of his actions. So, we don’t know how much this behaviour continued since then, I would like to know how much OT reps are doing on flight release, I want a full report on this, perhaps I’ll put a motion at the next meeting!
Oh, I just found out GR has been doing 80 hours of OT every month since before COVID(completely made up “fact” to make a point) but I think it’s true so now it’s fact!

[PostmasterGeneral]

All I know is the Hawaiian prince Claude has to go. 14 years is way too long for anyone to be a Chair. Can only imagine the corruption that must be going on

Hearing of paid Lincolns & trips to Hawaii?!

Four trips to Hawaii, for allegedly meeting the Hawaiian MEC, about some cargo operation using A330’s out of Cincinnati, crewed by jazz pilots. I’m sure the Jazz pilot group would be very interested in hearing details about this. Ask for details at the roadshow.

4 Christmas parties in Hawaii were going to get Jazz pilots flying A330s.

Think how fucking dumb this is. You would have to be a total moron to think US immigration would ever allow such a scheme. Claude is just a next level hustler

This. Not to mention, Jazz doesn’t have enough pilots for their own CPA, why on earth would they be looking for more flying? Besides, securing work is the company’s job. Not the unions. Makes no sense, but that’s because it’s nothing more than a paid vacation for CB on the pilots dime. What a waste of money.

[cdnavater]

Four trips to Hawaii, for allegedly meeting the Hawaiian MEC, about some cargo operation using A330’s out of Cincinnati, crewed by jazz pilots. I’m sure the Jazz pilot group would be very interested in hearing details about this. Ask for details at the roadshow.

4 Christmas parties in Hawaii were going to get Jazz pilots flying A330s.

Think how fucking dumb this is. You would have to be a total moron to think US immigration would ever allow such a scheme. Claude is just a next level hustler

This. Not to mention, Jazz doesn’t have enough pilots for their own CPA, why on earth would they be looking for more flying? Besides, securing work is the company’s job. Not the unions. Makes no sense, but that’s because it’s nothing more than a paid vacation for CB on the pilots dime. What a waste of money.

The part you are missing from context, it was being explored due to the actions of AC management and how unpredictable they are!
There are CPA providers in the US who have had their contracts voided early, I am glad something was being explored despite not even being aware it was on going.

[Man_in_the_sky]

4 Christmas parties in Hawaii were going to get Jazz pilots flying A330s.

Think how fucking dumb this is. You would have to be a total moron to think US immigration would ever allow such a scheme. Claude is just a next level hustler

This. Not to mention, Jazz doesn’t have enough pilots for their own CPA, why on earth would they be looking for more flying? Besides, securing work is the company’s job. Not the unions. Makes no sense, but that’s because it’s nothing more than a paid vacation for CB on the pilots dime. What a waste of money.

The part you are missing from context, it was being explored due to the actions of AC management and how unpredictable they are!
There are CPA providers in the US who have had their contracts voided early, I am glad something was being explored despite not even being aware it was on going.

If he wanted information,he could of sent an email. Spending union dues like that seem unjustified, and the fact it's been approved is even more scary.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Sooo, before the union implodes, any updates on the CIRB proceedings? Still stonewalled until ACA MEC is given intervener status?

[truedude]

Sooo, before the union implodes, any updates on the CIRB proceedings? Still stonewalled until ACA MEC is given intervener status?

They may never get it. They have applied for it because they were thrown out of the room.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Sooo, before the union implodes, any updates on the CIRB proceedings? Still stonewalled until ACA MEC is given intervener status?

They may never get it. They have applied for it because they were thrown out of the room.

Would be a pretty big relief if intervener status is denied. It would indicate that there’s nothing relevant to the AC pilots being discussed. If there was, intervener status must be granted. The AC MEC presented this a few weeks ago, it’s pretty black and white.

[truedude]

Sooo, before the union implodes, any updates on the CIRB proceedings? Still stonewalled until ACA MEC is given intervener status?

They may never get it. They have applied for it because they were thrown out of the room.

Would be a pretty big relief if intervener status is denied. It would indicate that there’s nothing relevant to the AC pilots being discussed. If there was, intervener status must be granted. The AC MEC presented this a few weeks ago, it’s pretty black and white.

It would also mean that their involvement is legally irrelevant to how the board may decide or any outcomes of the ULP. ACA tends to misunderstand things they would rather not understand.

[Nick678]

Sooo, before the union implodes, any updates on the CIRB proceedings? Still stonewalled until ACA MEC is given intervener status?

They may never get it. They have applied for it because they were thrown out of the room.

Would be a pretty big relief if intervener status is denied. It would indicate that there’s nothing relevant to the AC pilots being discussed. If there was, intervener status must be granted. The AC MEC presented this a few weeks ago, it’s pretty black and white.

If there was nothing relevant to the AC pilots being discussed why would apply for intervener status in the first place?

[Man_in_the_sky]

Sooo, before the union implodes, any updates on the CIRB proceedings? Still stonewalled until ACA MEC is given intervener status?

They may never get it. They have applied for it because they were thrown out of the room.

Would be a pretty big relief if intervener status is denied. It would indicate that there’s nothing relevant to the AC pilots being discussed. If there was, intervener status must be granted. The AC MEC presented this a few weeks ago, it’s pretty black and white.

Why would it be a relief? And for who? Because this post is AC related for ex jazz that got harmed by AC now following the flow agreement. There is absolutle no relief if they get it denied.

[flyingcanuck]

They may never get it. They have applied for it because they were thrown out of the room.

Would be a pretty big relief if intervener status is denied. It would indicate that there’s nothing relevant to the AC pilots being discussed. If there was, intervener status must be granted. The AC MEC presented this a few weeks ago, it’s pretty black and white.

Why would it be a relief? And for who? Because this post is AC related for ex jazz that got harmed by AC now following the flow agreement. There is absolutle no relief if they get it denied.

its relief for the current Jazzies who think they will get something out of this