5 pilots on 737 laid off

[Flyboy736]

What was said above is spot on. In my experience, I haven’t seen any kind of targeted behavior at this company. Most of the issues that arise seem to be the result of individual circumstances—whether it's related to someone's command decisions or gaps in their initial training.

YYCpilot made a great point, and I agree. This isn’t about defending anything—it’s just an honest reflection of how things are.

There’s a common misconception that AC is a place full of overly rigid personalities, which can lead new hires to showing up guarded and overly defensive the moment they don't look like they have the answers. In this profession we are always learning, in fact I'd say that's an attitude that's expected of you at AC. Like said before, if you show up with that attitude, the company is super accommodating.

In reality, it’s one of the more relaxed jobs out there. Owning mistakes and moving forward goes a long way here.

Getting defensive and blaming someone else, or lying about something, especially when you're the problem, is a quick way to to be shown the doors.



Exactly!


Hopefully, by 2027, we’ll see an increase in starting pay so more people can consider joining without it being such a financial strain in Toronto and Vancouver.

Forget the starting pay, 2027 needs to be all about lifestyle. When the number 2 NB FO gets optimized working max days in the month and thunder bay overnights something is seriously wrong with this company. Socialized bidding but the company gets the socializing aspect.

Classic pilot behaviour. Forget about the next generation, help the top guys !

Scheduling need a kick in the nuts, but Overall 4 first years are alway a MAJOR issue. No new pilots won't improve your QOL on the long run

If I said screw the bottom wages, give everything to year 12 then your statement would be correct. But hey guess what, lifestyle also applies to the new hire! Having a schedule that fits with an actual life outside of work doesn't just apply to the senior 15%. For example, training inside of your block, actual daily min credit above 5 hrs etc

[Blueontop]

Forget the starting pay, 2027 needs to be all about lifestyle. When the number 2 NB FO gets optimized working max days in the month and thunder bay overnights something is seriously wrong with this company. Socialized bidding but the company gets the socializing aspect.

Classic pilot behaviour. Forget about the next generation, help the top guys !

Scheduling need a kick in the nuts, but Overall 4 first years are alway a MAJOR issue. No new pilots won't improve your QOL on the long run

If I said screw the bottom wages, give everything to year 12 then your statement would be correct. But hey guess what, lifestyle also applies to the new hire! Having a schedule that fits with an actual life outside of work doesn't just apply to the senior 15%. For example, training inside of your block, actual daily min credit above 5 hrs etc

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

[cdnavater]

Classic pilot behaviour. Forget about the next generation, help the top guys !

Scheduling need a kick in the nuts, but Overall 4 first years are alway a MAJOR issue. No new pilots won't improve your QOL on the long run

If I said screw the bottom wages, give everything to year 12 then your statement would be correct. But hey guess what, lifestyle also applies to the new hire! Having a schedule that fits with an actual life outside of work doesn't just apply to the senior 15%. For example, training inside of your block, actual daily min credit above 5 hrs etc

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Blueontop, I mean this is the best possible way, did you know what the pay was when you signed on?
Could you make more flying a King Air? If so, why aren’t you doing that?
Why would anyone take a job that they should already know they can’t afford to do it as the sole breadwinner?
I worked up North many years longer than I should have because of the pay, I only applied when I was forced to take another job where the starting over pay was the same as the new hire at Jazz, otherwise I might still be up there.
You need to own your own choices, you have no one to blame but yourself for taking a job that doesn’t pay your bills, it’s not changing anytime soon so what are you going to do?

[Daniel Cooper]

AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Yeah why is like that? My PIT started near the end of the month and I didn't receive any payment until like 6 weeks later. Make sure you have enough saved for rent for the first couple of months or you might get evicted while waiting for your first paycheque.

[Blueontop]

If I said screw the bottom wages, give everything to year 12 then your statement would be correct. But hey guess what, lifestyle also applies to the new hire! Having a schedule that fits with an actual life outside of work doesn't just apply to the senior 15%. For example, training inside of your block, actual daily min credit above 5 hrs etc

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Blueontop, I mean this is the best possible way, did you know what the pay was when you signed on?
Could you make more flying a King Air? If so, why aren’t you doing that?
Why would anyone take a job that they should already know they can’t afford to do it as the sole breadwinner?
I worked up North many years longer than I should have because of the pay, I only applied when I was forced to take another job where the starting over pay was the same as the new hire at Jazz, otherwise I might still be up there.
You need to own your own choices, you have no one to blame but yourself for taking a job that doesn’t pay your bills, it’s not changing anytime soon so what are you going to do?

Thanks for the TEDTalk “Dad” I’ll be sure to add “own your decisions” to the same inspirational Pinterest board where I keep “just work harder” and “don’t like it? Leave.”

Let’s clear up a few things, though:
No, I wasn’t the sole breadwinner when I started. Life circumstances change—fast.

Yes, I could’ve made more money staying on the jet I flew before. But the quality of life was awful, and I saw what decades of that grind looked like on the guys ahead of me. That’s not the road I want to go down.

Yes, I knew the pay scales. What I didn’t know was the utterly asinine structure around it. ALPA advances? First-of-the-month-only pay that has to stretch until the 17th? Every other flying job I’ve had paid biweekly or at least spread the month out. This setup is… something else.

I’m not whining because I didn’t read the fine print, I’m calling out a system that actively sets new hires up to struggle in one of the most safety-critical jobs out there. And yeah, I chose to come here because I believe in what this airline could be with a “world class contract”. I signed on because I saw long-term potential, and I still believe it’s there. But it’s fair to call out the cracks in the foundation, especially when they impact basic quality of life, like buying food and gas.

So again, thanks for the fatherly advice. But I’ll keep pushing for a system that doesn’t punish people for taking a career step forward.

[Blueontop]

AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Yeah why is like that? My PIT started near the end of the month and I didn't receive any payment until like 6 weeks later. Make sure you have enough saved for rent for the first couple of months or you might get evicted while waiting for your first paycheque.

Now now DB you got to “own your decisions”. Just because you might get evicted or starve working for a “world class airline” doesn’t give you any justification to complain.

[cdnavater]

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Blueontop, I mean this is the best possible way, did you know what the pay was when you signed on?
Could you make more flying a King Air? If so, why aren’t you doing that?
Why would anyone take a job that they should already know they can’t afford to do it as the sole breadwinner?
I worked up North many years longer than I should have because of the pay, I only applied when I was forced to take another job where the starting over pay was the same as the new hire at Jazz, otherwise I might still be up there.
You need to own your own choices, you have no one to blame but yourself for taking a job that doesn’t pay your bills, it’s not changing anytime soon so what are you going to do?

Thanks for the TEDTalk “Dad” I’ll be sure to add “own your decisions” to the same inspirational Pinterest board where I keep “just work harder” and “don’t like it? Leave.”

Let’s clear up a few things, though:
No, I wasn’t the sole breadwinner when I started. Life circumstances change—fast.

Yes, I could’ve made more money staying on the jet I flew before. But the quality of life was awful, and I saw what decades of that grind looked like on the guys ahead of me. That’s not the road I want to go down.

Yes, I knew the pay scales. What I didn’t know was the utterly asinine structure around it. ALPA advances? First-of-the-month-only pay that has to stretch until the 17th? Every other flying job I’ve had paid biweekly or at least spread the month out. This setup is… something else.

I’m not whining because I didn’t read the fine print, I’m calling out a system that actively sets new hires up to struggle in one of the most safety-critical jobs out there. And yeah, I chose to come here because I believe in what this airline could be with a “world class contract”. I signed on because I saw long-term potential, and I still believe it’s there. But it’s fair to call out the cracks in the foundation, especially when they impact basic quality of life, like buying food and gas.

So again, thanks for the fatherly advice. But I’ll keep pushing for a system that doesn’t punish people for taking a career step forward.

Ok, but you didn’t say any of that, you simply said you were the sole income in the house and have to work all your days off!
As for complaining about the pay system, dude it doesn’t matter how much your cheque is and how long it needs to last, 17 days or 25 days won’t make a difference , you clearly don’t have anything left over from the bigger cheque at the end of the month carrying you through, sounds like you’re living cheque to cheque. That is the problem here, we get our big cheque on the 10th, the cheque on the 25th is a “mid month advance” which is the smaller cheque, obviously I need that to stretch until the 10th and depending on the month could be 16 or more days.
So, as your situation changed, you don’t have much choice, you need to work extra to make up for the loss of the other income but honestly how much your first cheque is is not relevant, your income is clearly not enough, are you thinking of quitting or just whining about the shit pay!

[rookiepilot]

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Your expenses are way too high.

[twa22]

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Your expenses are way too high.

lol wut? Have you seen the prices of houses lately? A one bedroom apartment mortgage can easily be 2500 a month

[Daniel Cooper]

we get our big cheque on the 10th, the cheque on the 25th is a “mid month advance” which is the smaller cheque

We do?

[cdnavater]

we get our big cheque on the 10th, the cheque on the 25th is a “mid month advance” which is the smaller cheque

We do?

What part of that is your problem, the mid month advance on the 25th is 40 credits, ah I see your problem, the 10th is the balance for the previous month. So, I suppose if you’re under 80 credits the 10th would be smaller. I’ve been 85 credits for 10 years so for me the 25th cheque is smaller but the message is the same!
You could get paid your entire salary once per month on the 15, obviously you would need to save some of that for rent on the 1st, my point was that the 2700 at the beginning of the month is not the problem, the lack of total pay is the problem

[Blueontop]

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Your expenses are way too high.

And? Waters wet.

For the record I’m actually getting a kind of a deal with a fully detached house in the GTA for less than $2500… it’s not just me that I have to take care of so I’m not downsizing anymore than this.

[Blueontop]

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Your expenses are way too high.

lol wut? Have you seen the prices of houses lately? A one bedroom apartment mortgage can easily be 2500 a month

Don’t even bother. Boomers gonna boom.

[twa22]

Your expenses are way too high.

lol wut? Have you seen the prices of houses lately? A one bedroom apartment mortgage can easily be 2500 a month

Don’t even bother. Boomers gonna boom.

Yea I know, I usually don't bother, but sometimes one can't help themselves when they hear/read certain things

[rookiepilot]

I’m a junior on flat pay. I I have no life outside of work as I literally can’t afford to do jackshit. I literally am wondering how I’m gonna feed myself on pairings coming up and worry about gas to get to and from the airport. I pick up VO and seat fills on as many days off as I can. Do I want to do this? No, I have to do this because I’m the sole breadwinner in the family. And even then VO and seat fills ain’t guaranteed.

First of month pay is $2700, I got to pay my housing so guess how much that leaves for the NEXT 17 DAYS?! Couple hundred dollars. AC pay and pay system is the most Fd up compensation system I have ever experienced in my career…

Your expenses are way too high.

And? Waters wet.

For the record I’m actually getting a kind of a deal with a fully detached house in the GTA for less than $2500… it’s not just me that I have to take care of so I’m not downsizing anymore than this.

And?

What’s the point of your posts, then?

[thepoors]

Thanks for the TEDTalk “Dad” I’ll be sure to add “own your decisions” to the same inspirational Pinterest board where I keep “just work harder” and “don’t like it? Leave.”

This is spot-on. The amount of out of touch boomers on here replaying these worn out platitudes is infuriating. There's no point arguing because the self-serving egomania combined with rapid mental decline makes it impossible for them to entertain any opinion other than their own. They have main character syndrome and everyone else is just complaining - when in reality they are, and always have been, the biggest whiners.

It's especially rich coming from cdnavater, who's a Jazz lifer that never made it to the big league and doesn't know the first thing about AC pay to begin with. Instead, he lives vicariously through this forum, shitting on new hires struggling to make ends meet. Class act.

[cdnavater]

Thanks for the TEDTalk “Dad” I’ll be sure to add “own your decisions” to the same inspirational Pinterest board where I keep “just work harder” and “don’t like it? Leave.”

This is spot-on. The amount of out of touch boomers on here replaying these worn out platitudes is infuriating. There's no point arguing because the self-serving egomania combined with rapid mental decline makes it impossible for them to entertain any opinion other than their own. They have main character syndrome and everyone else is just complaining - when in reality they are, and always have been, the biggest whiners.

It's especially rich coming from cdnavater, who's a Jazz lifer that never made it to the big league and doesn't know the first thing about AC pay to begin with. Instead, he lives vicariously through this forum, shitting on new hires struggling to make ends meet. Class act.

Yep, your posts as always are chock full of class but if blaming boomers for your life’s poor choices makes you feel better, fill your boots!
Fact, AC pays poor to begin with because pilots continue to sign up for it!
Fact, Jazz pays so poorly to begin with because AC started competing airlines that paid less and pilots happily signed on!
Fact, and this is the main point about this particular issue, the pay of 2700 at the beginning of the month is not the problem, as I said you could get your pay as one big lump sum and you would need to stretch that out to pay your bills. The fact this guy gets a 2700 dollar cheque and it’s gone because of rent is meaningless! They could pay half on the 1st and half on the 15th, it wouldn’t make a difference, this guy would be broke before the next cheque because the pay is not enough, which if you circle back, it’s because this poster has accepted the pay and continues to accept the pay even though his life circumstances changed and can’t really afford it!
If I couldn’t afford to pay my bills, I would either get a job that pays better or work a second job but I certainly wouldn’t come on an aviation webboard looking for sympathy, that’s your generation, blaming everyone else except the person who made the choice!

[altiplano]

The thing you guys don't get... it's not this seniority block or that seniority block or this age or that age...

There are company suck-asses at every level of this pilot list that would stab their own mothers to get a shot at pleasing some low level flight ops manager in this place.

It's unreal the types of people we have, no code, no professional integrity, no balls. That's what the AC psych evals are looking for I guess. And I'll repeat, they are at all levels in this list. Stop dividing it up and look at the number next to you...

[rookiepilot]

I’m not a boomer — younger than that — not once In any job I ever did I go on social media to complain about my pay or working conditions.

Let alone do anonymously.

I dealt with it directly with my employer, changed jobs, or cut my expenses. Sometimes all three at once.

But change takes courage, not a sad victim mentality seem to be held here.

[thepoors]

The thing you guys don't get... it's not this seniority block or that seniority block or this age or that age...

There are company suck-asses at every level of this pilot list that would stab their own mothers to get a shot at pleasing some low level flight ops manager in this place.

It's unreal the types of people we have, no code, no professional integrity, no balls. That's what the AC psych evals are looking for I guess. And I'll repeat, they are at all levels in this list. Stop dividing it up and look at the number next to you...

Very true.

[Old fella]

I’m not a boomer — younger than that — not once In any job I ever did I go on social media to complain about my pay or working conditions.

Let alone do anonymously.

I dealt with it directly with my employer, changed jobs, or cut my expenses. Sometimes all three at once.

But change takes courage, not a sad victim mentality seem to be held here.

When the sun goes to bed
That's the time you raise your head
That's your lot in life, Lalena
I can't blame ya
Lalena

[rookiepilot]

I’m not a boomer — younger than that — not once In any job I ever did I go on social media to complain about my pay or working conditions.

Let alone do anonymously.

I dealt with it directly with my employer, changed jobs, or cut my expenses. Sometimes all three at once.

But change takes courage, not a sad victim mentality seem to be held here.

When the sun goes to bed
That's the time you raise your head
That's your lot in life, Lalena
I can't blame ya
Lalena

Cool! A Twitter follower! Gonna buy my book?

[Old fella]

Naw, not on X got outta there few yrs back, ditto on FB. As for your book…. no doubt well put together but I will take a pass. I am a boomer(that’s my lot in life), with 75 yrs of existence or 75 turns around the sun whichever way you want to spin it - inspiration doesn’t do anything for me. Shit ringers of life takes its toll and cynicism creeps in. Tis a product of “ boomerism”.

Good luck with it though.

[rookiepilot]

Naw, not on X got outta there few yrs back, ditto on FB. As for your book…. no doubt well put together but I will take a pass. I am a boomer(that’s my lot in life), with 75 yrs of existence or 75 turns around the sun whichever way you want to spin it - inspiration doesn’t do anything for me. Shit ringers of life takes its toll and cynicism creeps in. Tis a product of “ boomerism”.

Good luck with it though.

I liked this post today.

https://x.com/markchironna/status/1934051957620052195

[Old fella]

Honestly though, if your written musings steers someone in a positive direction well that is commendable. Good on you for taking the time and initiative.

By your leave