Why WestJet?

[squawk2me]

Curious to hear people’s thoughts on WJA vs AC/Porter for someone looking to live in YVR. WestJet was always at the top of my list of companies wanting to work for. But this ridiculous timeframe to the left seat I keep reading about is making me look elsewhere. Is it better to go to a company like Porter with similar pay and quicker route to work up the seniority latter? Thanks!

[flying4dollars]

Curious to hear people’s thoughts on WJA vs AC/Porter for someone looking to live in YVR. WestJet was always at the top of my list of companies wanting to work for. But this ridiculous timeframe to the left seat I keep reading about is making me look elsewhere. Is it better to go to a company like Porter with similar pay and quicker route to work up the seniority latter? Thanks!

What is your main priority? The answer will dictate where you should apply.

[Hysteria]

Is westjet going to have socialized bidding in the next contract?

[safetyfirst123]

Is westjet going to have socialized bidding in the next contract?

Probably. Westjet does things differently, and in many ways that's a great thing. But many of their pilots don't like to consider how things are done elsewhere, which is why it took so long to get rid of grooming the cabins over there. I expect socialized bidding to remain at Westjet for a long time.

[Blackdog0301]

This my opinion. If you are 35 or younger, you are probably better off going to WestJet. Even if you end up waiting 10 years for an upgrade, you still have potentially 20 years left in that left seat. And remember, if you upgrade at year 10, you go straight to year 10 captain scale. And while you wait for that upgrade, you can enjoy a life of getting the schedule you more or less want. I've had 3 Christmas's and New Years at WestJet, and haven't worked a single one. That's not even possible at other airlines when you're junior.

If you're much older than 35, then you might be better off going elsewhere where you can get an upgrade quicker. But don't expect to get any of the important days you want off. As another commenter posted, it's all about what you prioritize.

[thepoors]

This my opinion. If you are 35 or younger, you are probably better off going to WestJet. Even if you end up waiting 10 years for an upgrade, you still have potentially 20 years left in that left seat. And remember, if you upgrade at year 10, you go straight to year 10 captain scale. And while you wait for that upgrade, you can enjoy a life of getting the schedule you more or less want. I've had 3 Christmas's and New Years at WestJet, and haven't worked a single one. That's not even possible at other airlines when you're junior.

If you're much older than 35, then you might be better off going elsewhere where you can get an upgrade quicker. But don't expect to get any of the important days you want off. As another commenter posted, it's all about what you prioritize.

Very possible to get Christmas off at AC as a junior depending on the equipment. AC pay also respects years of service, that's not exclusive to WJ.

To be honest I don't know much about socialized bidding, so someone can correct me, but logically it's just not possible for everyone to get what they want..someone has to end up with the shit pairings. I wouldn't want to have 20+ years of seniority and not be getting exactly what I want in my block.

[daedalusx]

This my opinion. If you are 35 or younger, you are probably better off going to WestJet. Even if you end up waiting 10 years for an upgrade, you still have potentially 20 years left in that left seat. And remember, if you upgrade at year 10, you go straight to year 10 captain scale. And while you wait for that upgrade, you can enjoy a life of getting the schedule you more or less want. I've had 3 Christmas's and New Years at WestJet, and haven't worked a single one. That's not even possible at other airlines when you're junior.

If you're much older than 35, then you might be better off going elsewhere where you can get an upgrade quicker. But don't expect to get any of the important days you want off. As another commenter posted, it's all about what you prioritize.

Other way around.
If there’s no movement, a new hire will stay on reserve a long time. If you’re going to be on reserve anyways might as well go to AC and upgrade on the NB. Lifestyle won’t be better but at least you’ll be making a decent wage. It’s you’re under 35, you’re absolutely insane to go to WestJet unless you live in YEG, YYC or YWG.

[daedalusx]

How much growth has WestJet had in the last 10 years ?
Cancelled WB orders, Q400 parked without crews and the incoming MAX10 (lolol) are just going to replace the old 700s. 10 years in the company and guys can’t even hold a block on the Dreamliner on the right seat.

[Hysteria]

How much growth has WestJet had in the last 10 years ?
Cancelled WB orders, Q400 parked without crews and the incoming MAX10 (lolol) are just going to replace the old 700s. 10 years in the company and guys can’t even hold a block on the Dreamliner on the right seat.

So is WJ mainline basically fully staffed in the West until 2030ish?

[phenix]

This my opinion. If you are 35 or younger, you are probably better off going to WestJet. Even if you end up waiting 10 years for an upgrade, you still have potentially 20 years left in that left seat. And remember, if you upgrade at year 10, you go straight to year 10 captain scale. And while you wait for that upgrade, you can enjoy a life of getting the schedule you more or less want. I've had 3 Christmas's and New Years at WestJet, and haven't worked a single one. That's not even possible at other airlines when you're junior.

If you're much older than 35, then you might be better off going elsewhere where you can get an upgrade quicker. But don't expect to get any of the important days you want off. As another commenter posted, it's all about what you prioritize.

Very possible to get Christmas off at AC as a junior depending on the equipment. AC pay also respects years of service, that's not exclusive to WJ.

To be honest I don't know much about socialized bidding, so someone can correct me, but logically it's just not possible for everyone to get what they want..someone has to end up with the shit pairings. I wouldn't want to have 20+ years of seniority and not be getting exactly what I want in my block.

It’s not possible, and it’s not the goal either. By design, a socialized bidding algorithm tries to get the highest possible global satisfaction score, that’s why it is usually called a solver. By design, a seniority bidding algorithm gives everything to #1, everything available to #2, and keeps going.
Because it has less constraints, a socialized algorithm will provide a higher global satisfaction rate than a seniority algorithm.
There are multiple downsides:
- even after 20 years, you can have a crappy schedule
- we live in an imperfect world and algorithms are also imperfect, so you can have a 0% satisfaction score
- bidding skills are important, you can have a schedule you don’t like with a 100% satisfaction score if you don’t bid well
- the best results are obtained with reasonable requests, so you’ll have to be reasonable your whole career

At the end of the day, socialized bidding favours junior pilots, and is one of the reasons why upgrade times are so high at WJ: people rarely pass on upgrades. Seniority bidding seems to come back into discussions once a year on average, but the pilot group is at 80-90% in favor of keeping the socialized system. It’s not really a heated debate.

As of now, socialized bidding is one of the few pros of WJ vs AC or Porter, so anyone who doesn’t want it would be well advised to stay away from WJ.

[daedalusx]

How many major airlines in the USA and Europe have socialized bidding ?

Seniority bidding allows crews to decide if they want the lifestyle or the upgrade which is a win/win.

And yes don’t forget to groom the plane on your commute flight home like a good little goyim.

[phenix]

How many major airlines in the USA and Europe have socialized bidding ?

Seniority bidding allows crews to decide if they want the lifestyle or the upgrade which is a win/win.

And yes don’t forget to groom the plane on your commute flight home like a good little goyim.

You seem very bitter and resentful in all your posts. There are other companies than WJ where you might be happier

[daedalusx]

Battered pilot syndrome.
Don’t forget your blue gloves on your next pairing


Yeah dude, every major airline is doing it wrong.
Classic coolaid w/ #1 blue dye

[phenix]

Battered pilot syndrome.
Don’t forget your blue gloves on your next pairing


Yeah dude, every major airline is doing it wrong.
Classic coolaid w/ #1 blue dye

I’m not sure what the grooming policy is these days, I haven’t groomed a plane in years. I don’t know why you are grooming planes during your pairings but I’m sure the help is appreciated.

Feel free to try to convince people to move onto seniority bidding, you won’t be the first.

Good luck

[Blackdog0301]

This my opinion. If you are 35 or younger, you are probably better off going to WestJet. Even if you end up waiting 10 years for an upgrade, you still have potentially 20 years left in that left seat. And remember, if you upgrade at year 10, you go straight to year 10 captain scale. And while you wait for that upgrade, you can enjoy a life of getting the schedule you more or less want. I've had 3 Christmas's and New Years at WestJet, and haven't worked a single one. That's not even possible at other airlines when you're junior.

If you're much older than 35, then you might be better off going elsewhere where you can get an upgrade quicker. But don't expect to get any of the important days you want off. As another commenter posted, it's all about what you prioritize.

Very possible to get Christmas off at AC as a junior depending on the equipment.

Using your sick days on Christmas doesn't count.

[JBI]

To be honest I don't know much about socialized bidding, so someone can correct me, but logically it's just not possible for everyone to get what they want..someone has to end up with the shit pairings. I wouldn't want to have 20+ years of seniority and not be getting exactly what I want in my block.

Socialized bidding isn't perfect. But, for the most part, it works very well. WJ's 737 route network is extremely diverse and so too are the pilots at WJ. When everyone wants different things, it's very possible for everyone to get what they want. Some want 1 days, some commute and want 5 days, some want to stay domestic, some want all the Mexican layovers, some want certain days off, some don't care, some hate red-eyes, some love them etc. Christmas is hard for sure, but that's one of the few instances where the majority of pilots actually want something similar.

Plus "years of seniority" means nothing in seniority bidding - it's all about your relative seniority in your base/equipment. 20 Years seniority would put a YYC 737 Captain at only 50% seniority in their base. They would NOT get exactly what they wanted in their block with seniority bidding.

There are definitely pros to seniority bidding, especially at airlines like AC that have many different base/equipment/seat options, but for an airline like WJ with a majority of one fleet type, I'd argue that the socialized scheduling is better overall. There are improvements to be made to WJ's system for sure, but that has much more to do with scheduling construction and flexibility than seniority vs. socialized bidding. The SAW (Schedule Adjustment Window) needs lot of improvements, but today I swapped two red-eye pairings for a higher credit 3 day with days. But here's the thing - those red-eye pairings that I swapped out have already been picked up "one man's trash is another man's treasure".

[cdnavater]

To be honest I don't know much about socialized bidding, so someone can correct me, but logically it's just not possible for everyone to get what they want..someone has to end up with the shit pairings. I wouldn't want to have 20+ years of seniority and not be getting exactly what I want in my block.

Socialized bidding isn't perfect. But, for the most part, it works very well. WJ's 737 route network is extremely diverse and so too are the pilots at WJ. When everyone wants different things, it's very possible for everyone to get what they want. Some want 1 days, some commute and want 5 days, some want to stay domestic, some want all the Mexican layovers, some want certain days off, some don't care, some hate red-eyes, some love them etc. Christmas is hard for sure, but that's one of the few instances where the majority of pilots actually want something similar.

Plus "years of seniority" means nothing in seniority bidding - it's all about your relative seniority in your base/equipment. 20 Years seniority would put a YYC 737 Captain at only 50% seniority in their base. They would NOT get exactly what they wanted in their block with seniority bidding.

There are definitely pros to seniority bidding, especially at airlines like AC that have many different base/equipment/seat options, but for an airline like WJ with a majority of one fleet type, I'd argue that the socialized scheduling is better overall. There are improvements to be made to WJ's system for sure, but that has much more to do with scheduling construction and flexibility than seniority vs. socialized bidding. The SAW (Schedule Adjustment Window) needs lot of improvements, but today I swapped two red-eye pairings for a higher credit 3 day with days. But here's the thing - those red-eye pairings that I swapped out have already been picked up "one man's trash is another man's treasure".

Just want to point out that in a seniority bidding system, that 20 year Captain would be closer to the top part of the list. In a seniority system you’ll find some 15 year FOs waiting for better seniority before moving over.
In the socialized bidding, I’m willing to bet that very close to zero FOs don’t take it the minute they are eligible, if you changed to seniority bidding, you would likely see some Captains bid down for better lifestyle.
I’ll say it would be very difficult to get a majority either way, I would not bid for a socialized system now that I have seniority but you might find more interested in a seniority system over your way since the senior ones would gain, all depends on the demographics at play.

[mantogasrsrwy]

....

[Can Pilot]

This my opinion. If you are 35 or younger, you are probably better off going to WestJet. Even if you end up waiting 10 years for an upgrade, you still have potentially 20 years left in that left seat. And remember, if you upgrade at year 10, you go straight to year 10 captain scale. And while you wait for that upgrade, you can enjoy a life of getting the schedule you more or less want. I've had 3 Christmas's and New Years at WestJet, and haven't worked a single one. That's not even possible at other airlines when you're junior.

If you're much older than 35, then you might be better off going elsewhere where you can get an upgrade quicker. But don't expect to get any of the important days you want off. As another commenter posted, it's all about what you prioritize.

Very possible to get Christmas off at AC as a junior depending on the equipment. AC pay also respects years of service, that's not exclusive to WJ.

To be honest I don't know much about socialized bidding, so someone can correct me, but logically it's just not possible for everyone to get what they want..someone has to end up with the shit pairings. I wouldn't want to have 20+ years of seniority and not be getting exactly what I want in my block.

+1
I haven't worked a single Christmas in almost 7 years at AC. Might be a bit of luck involved and knowing how to bid in PBS but it is possible.

[JungleRiot]

Curious to hear people’s thoughts on WJA vs AC/Porter for someone looking to live in YVR. WestJet was always at the top of my list of companies wanting to work for. But this ridiculous timeframe to the left seat I keep reading about is making me look elsewhere. Is it better to go to a company like Porter with similar pay and quicker route to work up the seniority latter? Thanks!

Unless you want to work more and get paid less, WJ is the clearer choice

[squawk2me]

From what I see Porter pay is very similar to WJ, and would be a much faster upgrade..? Don’t get me wrong I am still looking at westjet but seems like there might be other options. Who even knows when they will start hiring again. Their retirement plan looks a lot more attractive than Porter, but the thought of spending 12-16 years in the right seat of a narrow body would be a hard pill for lots to swallow.

[JBI]

From what I see Porter pay is very similar to WJ, and would be a much faster upgrade..? Don’t get me wrong I am still looking at westjet but seems like there might be other options. Who even knows when they will start hiring again. Their retirement plan looks a lot more attractive than Porter, but the thought of spending 12-16 years in the right seat of a narrow body would be a hard pill for lots to swallow.

Lots of good reasons to choose Porter and you will almost certainly upgrade quicker than at WestJet. But, is Porter even hiring for YVR? A quick check of their careers page on their website only lists pilot vacancies in YYZ. Could someone more in the know at Porter clarify?

Even though I tend to be pretty sceptical when it comes to growth rumours and aircraft orders, I do not see WestJet upgrade times getting as high as you suggest. A combination of 500+ retirements in the next 10 years with some pretty significant confirmed 737 Max orders which will be growth and not just fleet replacement, I think you'll see upgrades times stay steady for the next couple of years and then reduce slightly.

[MaxAuto]

Don't come here. Management doesn't seem to know what's going on. Communication is vague here. Over a 100 pilots will soon be forced to commute or uproot their families in November and they will do it again.

They didn't learn when they closed the Encore YYZ base which resulted in lots quiting. Now the are severely under staffed.


Radio silence from the company.

[daedalusx]

Don't come here. Management doesn't seem to know what's going on. Communication is vague here. Over a 100 pilots will soon be forced to commute or uproot their families in November and they will do it again.

They didn't learn when they closed the Encore YYZ base which resulted in lots quiting. Now the are severely under staffed.


Radio silence from the company.

No dude it’s pure MBA management genius.
> Panic and cancelled the Boeing WB orders … now can’t get any.
> Dumps millions of dollars in a failed Boeing BCF project …. Total disaster, project cancelled.
> Get a 99% No vote from the AMEs … think they can strongarm them by crying to the Feds… 4 days of airline shutdown and millions of dollars lost
> Buys Sunwing, decides not to pay the capts their YoS and move 150 crews out of Toronto which will end up displacing another 100 from Yul… on top of the YQB guys who also lost their base.
> Dozens of Q400s parked … Should we improve recruitment and retention ? Screw that, let’s go with TFWs … oh wait I guess we can’t.
> Incompetent IT department gets severely hacked. Radio silence on what PII was accessed… still ongoing a week later.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present you, your Onex’s WestJet Executive team.

[rookiepilot]

I should start a thread: “why would anyone choose WJ as a passenger “

Can’t think of a good reason. Never go near them.