The Latest on Layoffs

[habanaerospace]

This is a new low, even by Flair's standards. After announcing layoffs and downgrades and running a full reduction bid - the dream team has decided they aren't happy with the way the cards have fallen. What does any good manager do when they made these weighty decisions without a plan you ask? - Change the rules, throw the Collective Agreement to the wind, and run the bid again of course!

The background: Flair announced that they needed to do layoffs and downgrades (approx. 20 each), close a base (YKF), and run a reduction bid to correct base imbalances. The Chief Pilot made it clear that they wouldn't respect the CBA when it came to qualified First Officers bidding for Captain postings during the reduction or future recall (wishful thinking).  They ran the bid. A day after it closed they changed their minds.

The new plan: allow Captains to bid on First Officer positions but keep full Captain pay. On the surface this sounds great... win-win. Wait, what about the FOs? Not only can you not bid on Captain positions, but a higher seniority Captain can bump you from your post and do your job for twice the pay. Just a little extra salt in the wound now that you have to commute to a new base.

This company is so broke they need to do layoffs but has so much extra cash they are willing to pay 2x the going rate for a butt in the right seat. Something doesn't add up here?

This place has been one heck of a ride fellas but I'm more convinced than ever our managers are pushing the pointy end down - and why the f@#& is our UNION so quiet?!?

[flieslikeachicken]

why the f@#& is our UNION so quiet?!?

Because it was their idea.

[cdnavater]

“The new plan: allow Captains to bid on First Officer positions but keep full Captain pay. On the surface this sounds great... win-win. Wait, what about the FOs? Not only can you not bid on Captain positions, but a higher seniority Captain can bump you from your post and do your job for twice the pay. Just a little extra salt in the wound now that you have to commute to a new base”

That’s typically how it works, a reduction allows the reduced pilots to bid where their seniority allows, then typically you have reinstatement rights to your position before a senior FO could bid that position.
The FO who was not already a Captain would normally have to wait for a opening to bid up, when there are downgrades with reinstatement rights, they have priority back to the original position ahead of them.
The fact the union has reduced Captains as FO at Captain pay is a win, the alternative would be reduced Captains, normally more senior bumping FOs out(layoff) and then paid as FO.
If you are saying these reduced Captains are junior to FOs being laid off, that is a problem.

[Floop]

why the f@#& is our UNION so quiet?!?

Because it was their idea.

We have a new company friendly captain rep who will fix everything

Our mec chair is usually quick to communicate, probably some internal affairs happening

[co-joe]

The only part that seems weird is instead of junior Captains having to move bases to keep their seat, they're now being allowed to downgrade in their own base but retain Captain pay, and status (title and keep building Captain pay seniority I think). It means the entire burden of the reduction bid will be borne by the FOs. That burden will be almost exclusively felt by western bases. In the end, we're sure to lose good people over this. It may be a slight blessing since as soon as the WS/WG no layoff clause ends next year there will likely be layoffs there, and today AC and PD are both hiring, as are WR and QK.

[cdnavater]

The only part that seems weird is instead of junior Captains having to move bases to keep their seat, they're now being allowed to downgrade in their own base but retain Captain pay, and status (title and keep building Captain pay seniority I think). It means the entire burden of the reduction bid will be borne by the FOs. That burden will be almost exclusively felt by western bases. In the end, we're sure to lose good people over this. It may be a slight blessing since as soon as the WS/WG no layoff clause ends next year there will likely be layoffs there, and today AC and PD are both hiring, as are WR and QK.

The second part of your paragraph is why they are allowing Captains to displace and keep their pay, it’s a lot harder to find new Captains if you force them to move. It also signals this is more likely temporary, however a better solution could have been a paid commute to new base including hotel. This would have to be cheaper than paying two Captains per flight

[safetyfirst123]

The only part that seems weird is instead of junior Captains having to move bases to keep their seat, they're now being allowed to downgrade in their own base but retain Captain pay, and status (title and keep building Captain pay seniority I think). It means the entire burden of the reduction bid will be borne by the FOs. That burden will be almost exclusively felt by western bases. In the end, we're sure to lose good people over this. It may be a slight blessing since as soon as the WS/WG no layoff clause ends next year there will likely be layoffs there, and today AC and PD are both hiring, as are WR and QK.

That no layoff clause you speak of is not black and white. Westjet can definitely layoff. Also, there's nothing to indicate that there will be any layoffs at Westjet. If anything, they are short pilots even after integration with Sunwing. Things can change of course, but the problem at Westjet is lack of airplanes to cover the flying.

[JungleRiot]

The only part that seems weird is instead of junior Captains having to move bases to keep their seat, they're now being allowed to downgrade in their own base but retain Captain pay, and status (title and keep building Captain pay seniority I think). It means the entire burden of the reduction bid will be borne by the FOs. That burden will be almost exclusively felt by western bases. In the end, we're sure to lose good people over this. It may be a slight blessing since as soon as the WS/WG no layoff clause ends next year there will likely be layoffs there, and today AC and PD are both hiring, as are WR and QK.

That no layoff clause you speak of is not black and white. Westjet can definitely layoff. Also, there's nothing to indicate that there will be any layoffs at Westjet. If anything, they are short pilots even after integration with Sunwing. Things can change of course, but the problem at Westjet is lack of airplanes to cover the flying.

Reduction bid has been cancelled at WJ until further notice

[flying4dollars]

“The new plan: allow Captains to bid on First Officer positions but keep full Captain pay. On the surface this sounds great... win-win. Wait, what about the FOs? Not only can you not bid on Captain positions, but a higher seniority Captain can bump you from your post and do your job for twice the pay. Just a little extra salt in the wound now that you have to commute to a new base”

That’s typically how it works, a reduction allows the reduced pilots to bid where their seniority allows, then typically you have reinstatement rights to your position before a senior FO could bid that position.
The FO who was not already a Captain would normally have to wait for a opening to bid up, when there are downgrades with reinstatement rights, they have priority back to the original position ahead of them.
The fact the union has reduced Captains as FO at Captain pay is a win, the alternative would be reduced Captains, normally more senior bumping FOs out(layoff) and then paid as FO.
If you are saying these reduced Captains are junior to FOs being laid off, that is a problem.

Flair's upgrade matrix is not seniority based, but experience based. So it is very possible that the downgraded captain is less senior than an FO who's been at the company longer. They do hire direct entry captains after all. It has always been that way at Flair.

[co-joe]

The only part that seems weird is instead of junior Captains having to move bases to keep their seat, they're now being allowed to downgrade in their own base but retain Captain pay, and status (title and keep building Captain pay seniority I think). It means the entire burden of the reduction bid will be borne by the FOs. That burden will be almost exclusively felt by western bases. In the end, we're sure to lose good people over this. It may be a slight blessing since as soon as the WS/WG no layoff clause ends next year there will likely be layoffs there, and today AC and PD are both hiring, as are WR and QK.

That no layoff clause you speak of is not black and white. Westjet can definitely layoff. Also, there's nothing to indicate that there will be any layoffs at Westjet. If anything, they are short pilots even after integration with Sunwing. Things can change of course, but the problem at Westjet is lack of airplanes to cover the flying.

So WS isn't forcing 150 YYZ Captains to move to YYC where they won't be protected by the terms of the merger and won't be able to hold left seat anymore? That's good news. And the AR program isn't being canceled in November, so the guys over 65 won't be forced to retire anymore then?

[safetyfirst123]

The only part that seems weird is instead of junior Captains having to move bases to keep their seat, they're now being allowed to downgrade in their own base but retain Captain pay, and status (title and keep building Captain pay seniority I think). It means the entire burden of the reduction bid will be borne by the FOs. That burden will be almost exclusively felt by western bases. In the end, we're sure to lose good people over this. It may be a slight blessing since as soon as the WS/WG no layoff clause ends next year there will likely be layoffs there, and today AC and PD are both hiring, as are WR and QK.

That no layoff clause you speak of is not black and white. Westjet can definitely layoff. Also, there's nothing to indicate that there will be any layoffs at Westjet. If anything, they are short pilots even after integration with Sunwing. Things can change of course, but the problem at Westjet is lack of airplanes to cover the flying.

So WS isn't forcing 150 YYZ Captains to move to YYC where they won't be protected by the terms of the merger and won't be able to hold left seat anymore? That's good news. And the AR program isn't being canceled in November, so the guys over 65 won't be forced to retire anymore then?

Your response to my post indicates to me that you think very differently or you need to read more carefully. You are over-complicating things to further your rhetoric.

[MaxAuto]

Flair has reinstatement rights? You hear that westjetters?????

[co-joe]

Your response to my post indicates to me that you think very differently or you need to read more carefully. You are over-complicating things to further your rhetoric.

Or you're the one making a simple reduction in the size of your workforce seem like something other than what it is. It's a reduction by another name. WS is reducing the number of Captains, as well as reducing the size of the pilot workforce. How many AR pilots are there? How many will be forced to retire November 1?

[airway]

The only part that seems weird is instead of junior Captains having to move bases to keep their seat, they're now being allowed to downgrade in their own base but retain Captain pay, and status (title and keep building Captain pay seniority I think). It means the entire burden of the reduction bid will be borne by the FOs. That burden will be almost exclusively felt by western bases. In the end, we're sure to lose good people over this. It may be a slight blessing since as soon as the WS/WG no layoff clause ends next year there will likely be layoffs there, and today AC and PD are both hiring, as are WR and QK.

Instead of downgrading captains with pay and status, why not just have the captains who were slated to be downgraded fly in whichever seat they are needed.