Dreamliner Down in India

[pdw]

I don’t see evidence of any negligence here (not yet at least); IMO it’s got to be a fluke of some kind, or combination of, a thrust deficiency that got them (the Pic and/or the Captain). I know everyone is now waiting … edge of their seats … me too.

[Inverted2]

The truck carrying the tail section drove under a large tree branch and smashed into it with the tail.

It's just like the bridges in Vancouver!

ahmedabad-flight-wreckage-met-another-accident-during-v0-dmhxbXJ6Zmp4ODlmMVe9tErN7v7UcZ27unQb7iVZCNBQrDBYD80cS3lLkCu9.jpg

Same drivers.

[55+]

The truck carrying the tail section drove under a large tree branch and smashed into it with the tail.

It's just like the bridges in Vancouver!

Just another day in Asia!

I lived in this region for 8 years. The level of Chaos/Corruption/Negligence/Incompetence/Nepotism/Theft and Fraud would shock you.

I've said it before - the only thing that surprises me is that they don't have more accidents!

Asia…… any of us who did ICAO assignments through secondment , LOA or post retirement will certainly attest to your observations. Nepotism gave rise to gross incompetency, I would also add untrustworthy as part of that. The state’s military aka Air Force played predominantly in Civil Aviation, accident investigation and those hierarchies were convoluted. I could go on and on.

[rookiepilot]

And nothing to see here.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10465319/boe ... d-737-max/

[Pacqing]

When referring to like incidents on the dark continent its common to say TIA, this is Africa, now we can say TII.

[Old fella]

https://simpleflying.com/indian-authori ... stigation/

[pelmet]

https://simpleflying.com/indian-authori ... stigation/

Folks, there is a reason why you want to buy a ticket on a carrier like British Airways when you fly to/from India or many other countries from the UK. From hindered investigations to fake pilot licenses, etc, etc. Chances are that all will be fine in this day and age of low accident rates, even among the traditional high accident rate nations but old habits die hard.

[Dias]

Folks, there is a reason why you want to buy a ticket on a carrier like British Airways when you fly to/from India

You're not going to have a good time on a flight to India regardless of the airline. https://www.instagram.com/cultureonfire ... JyXBrTacu/

[pdw]

Take a look at AI187; it loses 900’ down to 21-2200’ (close one EH?)

Edit … UTC day/time june 14 / 22:46 … 3.am local June 15/2025 (av herald)

[shamrock104]

And still crickets on FDR and black box recordings.

[Rooster69]

And still crickets on FDR and black box recordings.

Nothing screams cover up louder than silence. If it was a Boeing issue, the cause, and the appropriate ADs, would be out already.
India, Air India and anyone involved will deflect any blame from themselves.

[digits_]

And still crickets on FDR and black box recordings.

Nothing screams cover up louder than silence. If it was a Boeing issue, the cause, and the appropriate ADs, would be out already.
India, Air India and anyone involved will deflect any blame from themselves.

Cover up of what though? I'm thinking that if the pilots screwed up, Air India would have been happy as they can blame it on them. This doesn't appear to be happening, which is good, but that does then hint at something else under Air India's control. Now, is that something that is directly responsible for the accident (eg intentionally using a non approved broken part), something more grey (eg exercising pressure on maintenance personnel which then made a mistake) or something that's illegal but is not directly responsible for the accident, but they still want to cover up (eg duty limit violations).

Just a 'cover up' can mean a lot of things.

[Tbayer2021]

And still crickets on FDR and black box recordings.

Nothing screams cover up louder than silence. If it was a Boeing issue, the cause, and the appropriate ADs, would be out already.
India, Air India and anyone involved will deflect any blame from themselves.

Not really. It hasn't even been 30 days yet. The TSB took 31 days to release a preliminary report on Delta 4819 in YYZ and that plane was mostly intact with everyone having survived. It took the NSTB about a month and a half to release a preliminary report on AA5342. German wings 9525 preliminary report was published 6 weeks after the crash.

Maybe calm down.

[Old fella]

https://sundayguardianlive.com/investig ... ion-expert#

Certainly no shortage of speculative theories out there.

[shamrock104]

As I stated earlier, crickets from India, stinks of some sort of cover up to be honest.

[shamrock104]

A couple of important points here, it is imperative that the travelling public need to know who and what to avoid, either flying Air India or the 787.
I am aware that prelim reports take around the 30 day mark but if something is known already this should most definitely be forthcoming and hopefully with honesty and integrity.

[pdw]

The fact that clean water can get through a filter system to affect engines on a takeoff isn’t impossible if common knowledge that some always present. At say a gal of fuel per engine used up/injected in there per second on takeoff a drop wouldn’t be noticeable; but if a whole cup (filtered/not contaminated) is involved there it could snuff some thrust …ie what H2O would it take for 5-10 percent reduction ? Would that (smaller amounts) even ever be much of a takeoff/climb threat without the other factor(s)?

Edit: Flight 187 that had lost 900ft in climb/turning-south one min out of Delhi off rwy 104deg true … appears to have happened 61.3 hours after this tragedy, not the 38hrs as reported (when going by metars on AH which is June 15 3am local Delhi time).

[rookiepilot]

[/b]

And still crickets on FDR and black box recordings.

Nothing screams cover up louder than silence. If it was a Boeing issue, the cause, and the appropriate ADs, would be out already.
India, Air India and anyone involved will deflect any blame from themselves.

Where is this cover up of India’s exactly? Still waiting for proof of your claim. Here’s some actual information.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/inves ... 5mc5x.html


Air India pilots re-enacted the doomed aircraft’s parameters in a flight simulator, including with the landing gear deployed and the wing flaps retracted, and found those settings alone didn’t cause a crash, according to people familiar with the investigation.

The result, alongside the previous discovery that an emergency-power turbine deployed seconds before impact, has reinforced the focus on a technical failure as one possible cause, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing non-public deliberations.

The simulated flight was conducted separately from the official probe being led by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) and was done to explore possible scenarios, one of the people said.

Additional clues
The Boeing 787 was powered by two General Electric (GE) engines. Boeing declined to comment and deferred any questions to the AAIB, while GE said it could not comment on an active investigation.

Pilots who reviewed the footage have noted that the landing gear was already partially tilted forward, suggesting the cockpit crew had initiated the wheel retraction sequence.

At the same time, the landing gear doors had not opened, which pilots say might mean that the aircraft experienced a loss of power or a hydraulic failure, again pointing to possible issues with the engines that provide the aircraft’s electricity.

The engines of modern aircraft are computer-controlled using a system called Full Authority Digital Engine Control, or FADEC, which helps pilots control an aircraft’s power and makes sure the engines are used efficiently and not outside their operating limits.

An emergency turbine, called the RAT, which deploys from the back of the aircraft in the case of electrical failure, was activated before the plane crashed, according to previous findings.

Analysis of the wreckage suggests the wing flaps and slats, which help an aircraft increase lift during takeoff, were extended correctly.

The crash ranks as the worst accident in Indian civil aviation in several decades, and it’s the first time that a Boeing 787 Dreamliner has been lost to an accident.

The pilots, who died in the crash, sent out a mayday signal shortly after takeoff. There were only about 15 seconds between the distress call and impact, two people familiar with the investigation said.

[pdw]

One can wonder though … what happens to that guy/gal that blew the whistle on this long-running home base fuel thievery/tampering outfit just after AI-315 had its fuel filter alert June 16 (95.4 hours after this tragedy).

For example, would there be something like the witness protection program available like there often is made available here in North America where organized crime operations are exposed by an informant?

[shamrock104]

30 days fast approaching, let us see what will be offered up and then perhaps we can comment from there. If this was an aircraft problem it would have been prudent to have released some details by now (if known). If Airline related same thing as perhaps the travelling public can make other choices with their carrier.

[cncpc]

I made a call to my old friend retired from the TSB about this accident. He is always wonderfully concise. He says:

They have known for two weeks what caused it.
The primary recorder for knowing the cause will be the FDR.
If it is anything engine or airframe related, notices will already have gone out. i.e. it isn't something that poses a threat to the fleet.

I would have thought two calving at once would be engine related?

[CpnCrunch]

I would have thought two calving at once would be engine related?

Engine or human related.

[digits_]

I would have thought two calving at once would be engine related?

Engine or human related.

Correct. Thanks.

Why would it be an engine issue? Seems extremely improbable that both would fail at the same time.

It's the airframe that can shut down both engines at the same time. I would guess the engines were perfectly fine but something reduced power on both or shut them down.

Perhaps a freak occurrence of a little bump that dislodged something that hit both cutoff switches around Vr?

[Rooster69]

“Perhaps a freak occurrence of a little bump that dislodged something that hit both cutoff switches around Vr?”


The switches have to be pulled up over a gate to be selected off. No ‘bump’ will knock off both switches simultaneously.


Both engines rolled back simultaneously. No yaw during t/o , So, I doubt they had an engine failure and then the pilots shut down the wrong engine. Plus, pilots are TRAINED to not run any drills or checklists below 400’ agl. Of corse, if a pilot thought he had a double flameout, he would probably do the ‘dual engine failure’ drill right away. (This drill calls for RAT deployment.)
Water in tanks? Doubt contamination in fuel would affect both engines failing simultaneously. One would fail before the other.

Either the computers commanded the thrust to idle or the altitude set in the mode control panel (where pilots set the target altitude for climb/descent) was set to 0 and the auto throttles engaged after t/o at 400agl. Side note: Setting 0 in the altitude window has happened at other airlines in the past. Resulting in stained underwear.

The gear down? Head scratcher, but many pilots forget the ‘positive rate’ call on t/o when the bells and lights start.

[flieslikeachicken]

How do we know that the engines rolled back? It is completely possible that the engines were not producing the amount of thrust required to safely complete the takeoff from the moment that the power levers were brought forward.