Why WestJet?

[Canadaflyer46]

If you're YVR you'd be out of your mind to go to WJ. Just looking at the latest list, most junior YVR captain at WJ is a Mar2013 hire. Must junior block holder is a Jun2010. So 15 years to even be off reserve as a captain on a 737. We have zero growth, and only aircraft orders are for a few max8s and a bunch of aircraft that aren't even certified yet.

[tik1]

> Incompetent IT department gets severely hacked. Radio silence on what PII was accessed… still ongoing a week later.

I'll stand up for IT.

Their attack surface is literally every employee that's connected. Every upstream and downstream vendor, microsoft, aws, google and many more.
Social engineering, smishing, software exploits, MFA fatigue.
In a cat and mouse game, the mouse only needs to find 1 hole. The cat needs to find every hole.

Every major company will get hacked eventually, as soon as someone sets the target.

[Turboprops]

If you're YVR you'd be out of your mind to go to WJ. Just looking at the latest list, most junior YVR captain at WJ is a Mar2013 hire. Must junior block holder is a Jun2010. So 15 years to even be off reserve as a captain on a 737. We have zero growth, and only aircraft orders are for a few max8s and a bunch of aircraft that aren't even certified yet.

You’d be surprised how senior the AC YVR base is…
One can go to AC today and realize it’ll take them a year to be the bottom FO in YVR

[ZBBYLW]

In YVR at AC you could hold any YVR position shortly after the course (NB FO and RP). It wouldn't be a crazy wait for WB FO or NB CA either. On the last bid the junior NB C and 777 FO was around 3700 and 787 FO 4600.

[Canadaflyer46]

In YVR at AC you could hold any YVR position shortly after the course (NB FO and RP). It wouldn't be a crazy wait for WB FO or NB CA either. On the last bid the junior NB C and 777 FO was around 3700 and 787 FO 4600.

Interesting numbers thanks.
At WJ right now it takes 10 years seniority to be the most junior 787FO, bottom of reserve.

[Turboprops]

In YVR at AC you could hold any YVR position shortly after the course (NB FO and RP). It wouldn't be a crazy wait for WB FO or NB CA either. On the last bid the junior NB C and 777 FO was around 3700 and 787 FO 4600.

My buddy started there 2 years ago, 737 YVR base right away, he’s still on reserve. You think he’s getting the “quick upgrade” like everyone else is saying? Like don’t get me wrong, upgrade takes forever at WJ, but AC YVR base is not where 2 year upgrades happen.

[Hysteria]

In YVR at AC you could hold any YVR position shortly after the course (NB FO and RP). It wouldn't be a crazy wait for WB FO or NB CA either. On the last bid the junior NB C and 777 FO was around 3700 and 787 FO 4600.

My buddy started there 2 years ago, 737 YVR base right away, he’s still on reserve. You think he’s getting the “quick upgrade” like everyone else is saying? Like don’t get me wrong, upgrade takes forever at WJ, but AC YVR base is not where 2 year upgrades happen.

I didn’t know early NB upgrades weren’t in YVR

[Turboprops]

In YVR at AC you could hold any YVR position shortly after the course (NB FO and RP). It wouldn't be a crazy wait for WB FO or NB CA either. On the last bid the junior NB C and 777 FO was around 3700 and 787 FO 4600.

My buddy started there 2 years ago, 737 YVR base right away, he’s still on reserve. You think he’s getting the “quick upgrade” like everyone else is saying? Like don’t get me wrong, upgrade takes forever at WJ, but AC YVR base is not where 2 year upgrades happen.

I didn’t know early NB upgrades weren’t in YVR

People like to talk shit about Westjet’s upgrade times (rightfully so), brag about how quickly you’ll upgrade at AC and forget there’s a world outside of YYZ…

With the huge group of pilots hired post COVID at AC, not sure if people should adjust their expectations about upgrade times if one were to join today.

[jpilot77]

My buddy started there 2 years ago, 737 YVR base right away, he’s still on reserve. You think he’s getting the “quick upgrade” like everyone else is saying? Like don’t get me wrong, upgrade takes forever at WJ, but AC YVR base is not where 2 year upgrades happen.

I didn’t know early NB upgrades weren’t in YVR

People like to talk shit about Westjet’s upgrade times (rightfully so), brag about how quickly you’ll upgrade at AC and forget there’s a world outside of YYZ…

With the huge group of pilots hired post COVID at AC, not sure if people should adjust their expectations about upgrade times if one were to join today.

YUL has also had very junior upgrades not just YYZ. And yes upgrades will take more time going forward. But in a seniority system there’s always a chance to upgrade far more quickly than in a socialized system.

[nohojob]

At WJ the upgrades are not based on a socialized system.

[jpilot77]

At WJ the upgrades are not based on a socialized system.

No they aren’t but there’s nobody passing on upgrades cause they’ll get a crappy schedule by being junior. At AC you get guys passing on upgrades cause they’ll like having a better schedule while the guys that take the upgrade know that they’ll be sacrificing their schedule for money.

[nohojob]

At WJ the upgrades are not based on a socialized system.

No they aren’t but there’s nobody passing on upgrades cause they’ll get a crappy schedule by being junior. At AC you get guys passing on upgrades cause they’ll like having a better schedule while the guys that take the upgrade know that they’ll be sacrificing their schedule for money.

You have a point, however taking the upgrade at wj could put you at the bottom at your base list which means that you will be on reserve.

[Hangry]

At WJ the upgrades are not based on a socialized system.

No they aren’t but there’s nobody passing on upgrades cause they’ll get a crappy schedule by being junior. At AC you get guys passing on upgrades cause they’ll like having a better schedule while the guys that take the upgrade know that they’ll be sacrificing their schedule for money.

That hasn’t been true for many years

[ant_321]

At WJ the upgrades are not based on a socialized system.

No they aren’t but there’s nobody passing on upgrades cause they’ll get a crappy schedule by being junior. At AC you get guys passing on upgrades cause they’ll like having a better schedule while the guys that take the upgrade know that they’ll be sacrificing their schedule for money.

That hasn’t been true for many years

What part isn’t?

[DanWEC]

I know a ton of guys at AC who haven't taken the NB junior upgrade at the first chance. Unless I'm misunderstanding you?
I can't see any reason to pass at WJ, but then again I'm not there.

[Hangry]

No they aren’t but there’s nobody passing on upgrades cause they’ll get a crappy schedule by being junior. At AC you get guys passing on upgrades cause they’ll like having a better schedule while the guys that take the upgrade know that they’ll be sacrificing their schedule for money.

That hasn’t been true for many years

What part isn’t?

All new upgrades go on reserve. Until they can hold a block. WJ has had reserve for years.
I’m sure a WJ pilot can chime in with the details.

[Canadaflyer46]

That hasn’t been true for many years

What part isn’t?

All new upgrades go on reserve. Until they can hold a block. WJ has had reserve for years.
I’m sure a WJ pilot can chime in with the details.

Correct. YYC it’s currently 12 years for an upgrade, but 17 years to hold a block as a captain. So lots of reserve time until you can get back to that socialized bidding.

[Hangry]

It’s alarming the vast majority of posters on here seem to have no idea about this industry based on their posts. At least the airline side of things.

End stage avcanada.

Buyer beware!

[JBI]

From what I can tell on the AC seniority and position lists, the most junior NB Captain in YVR was hired right at the beginning of COVID, so give or take 5 years seniority.

With AC, it's important to note that there are literally hundreds of pilots who don't take a quick upgrade to get a better schedule. One classmate who has been at AC for 15 years is still happily a 777 FO for the great schedule and still really good pay. Widebody options, especially in Vancouver is one area where AC is far superior than WJ. This is great in that it enables quicker NB Captain upgrades, but those who do take the early upgrade will continually have more senior pilots parachute into a position on top of them.

While this does and can happen at WJ, it's less drastic. There are a definitely a few pilots who either stay a 737 FO or go on the 787 as FO in order to wait for a 737 Captain position not on reserve, but the vast majority of WJ pilots will take a 737 Captain position even if it means reserve as WJ's 787 FO pay and QOL doesn't compare to AC's, and as I understand it, WJ's reserve rules offer better options than AC's (I have not been on RES at either airlines).

While AC's upgrades time are definitely shorter than WJ's and there are more WB opportunities, they have hired 1700 pilots since COVID. That's an incredible amount of pilots now in line ahead of you before you can upgrade. Remember, seniority is like line ups at the grocery store. It's nice when the line is moving, but if it moves quick but then slows or stops before you get to the cashier, you're still stuck in line.

[JBI]

Quick follow up to this conversation, in the Air Canada thread, this post suggests it's a year for YVR and 2-3 year until off reserve at the moment:

viewtopic.php?p=1342983#p1342983

[nohojob]

With the reduction bid, there about 45 upgrades. All of them went to wj FOs which shortened the waiting for the left seat.

[safetyfirst123]

Sunwing FO's were allowed to bid for upgrades, if their seniority allowed of course. They secretly changed the upgrade requirements after the fact, and a revised bid award had taken away the upgrade for the Sunwing FO's that held left seat. It's unbelievable how management and the Westjet union are colluding to divide the pilot groups. The Westjet union fought in the last contract to integrate Sunwing Airlines into Westjet, effectively killing off Sunwing Airlines. Funny enough, the growth in flying at Westjet is pretty much leisure Sunwing flying with the decimation of US flying. It wouldn't surprise me if Westjet were facing layoffs right now if it weren't for the integration of Sunwing, yet they're doing so much to divide the two groups. What a shame.

[Blackdog0301]

Sunwing FO's were allowed to bid for upgrades, if their seniority allowed of course. They secretly changed the upgrade requirements after the fact, and a revised bid award had taken away the upgrade for the Sunwing FO's that held left seat. It's unbelievable how management and the Westjet union are colluding to divide the pilot groups. The Westjet union fought in the last contract to integrate Sunwing Airlines into Westjet, effectively killing off Sunwing Airlines. Funny enough, the growth in flying at Westjet is pretty much leisure Sunwing flying with the decimation of US flying. It wouldn't surprise me if Westjet were facing layoffs right now if it weren't for the integration of Sunwing, yet they're doing so much to divide the two groups. What a shame.

What are you talking about?
The latest bid resolved the issue of captains being out of place. The only way you got a left seat is if your seniority held it. If you got bumped from the seat, it's because someone senior to you wanted it. What's the big deal?

[MaxAuto]

Sunwing FO's were allowed to bid for upgrades, if their seniority allowed of course. They secretly changed the upgrade requirements after the fact, and a revised bid award had taken away the upgrade for the Sunwing FO's that held left seat. It's unbelievable how management and the Westjet union are colluding to divide the pilot groups. The Westjet union fought in the last contract to integrate Sunwing Airlines into Westjet, effectively killing off Sunwing Airlines. Funny enough, the growth in flying at Westjet is pretty much leisure Sunwing flying with the decimation of US flying. It wouldn't surprise me if Westjet were facing layoffs right now if it weren't for the integration of Sunwing, yet they're doing so much to divide the two groups. What a shame.

What are you talking about?
The latest bid resolved the issue of captains being out of place. The only way you got a left seat is if your seniority held it. If you got bumped from the seat, it's because someone senior to you wanted it. What's the big deal?

That's not what he/she is talking about. There were Sunwing FOs senior enough to hold upgrade and they were awarded captain positions in the bid.When the final bid came out, their award was gone. Why? Because some in management secretly change the wording in the PTM by removing the word Group from ' one year and a 1000hrs On a WestJet Group of aircraft" for upgrade requirements. Sunwing has been a part of the WestJet group for over a year. The word "group" was removed without revision details in the PTM.

The poster is not talking about the super junior Sunwing captains who lost there seats. That was expected. But a 10+ year FO should've been able to hold captain in YUL, YWG or YEG.

[nohojob]

Max auto is right.
Though I am wondering why management did so ?