Does anyone know what the MEC is actually trying to get out of the ULP?

[PostmasterGeneral]

Sounds like Jazz mgmt was just as complicit as AC in not honoring the flow?

What does any of that have to do with attracting experienced pilots to Jazz though? They desperately need captains, is the solution to pay more? Even if the pay was significantly higher, why would a pilot choose Jazz captain over AC? Seniority is everything, time spent at Jazz would be time wasted down the road.

On the plus side, it sounds like the union (I assume who that quoted message is from) is looking forward at a solution, rather than wasting time and energy fighting for something that benefits few.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Jazz was once a career destination. It isn't anymore. They voted to agree to a reduction from 60 to 30% flow to AC, don't be surprised if you are not attractive anymore. Jazz has been used as a stepping stone to get to AC, now with the reduction in flowing pilots, why would someone go to jazz honestly.

[cdnavater]

Jazz was once a career destination. It isn't anymore. They voted to agree to a reduction from 60 to 30% flow to AC, don't be surprised if you are not attractive anymore. Jazz has been used as a stepping stone to get to AC, now with the reduction in flowing pilots, why would someone go to jazz honestly.

What are you suggesting, that we should have kept the 60% flow which wasn’t being honoured and if it was honoured left us even more short of pilots?
Jazz was a career destination over a decade ago, after the introduction of competition proving that AC didn’t need to pay regional pilots as much as they were, since pilots were stepping over one another to work for less, it’s been downhill ever since.
We were well behind the race to the bottom that was happening in the U.S, paid well above them, now we are lagging behind and AC shows no sign of wanting that to change.
They would much rather put a 220 on regional routes and let Jazz shrink as necessary with our inability to staff the left seat.
I don’t know exactly what was proposed to AC and Jazz management, obviously it has an effect on AC pilots as intervenor would not be required otherwise, but the interference was apparently on all fronts.
The MOS7 interference is likely the biggest bill as the pay was rumoured at 42% increase and I can’t help but wonder if the AC/Jazz refusal to address this will have the effect of the CIRB reducing what we are entitled too, imagine back pay for all the time it has taken, who would award a multimillion dollar penalty for all the back pay required, they would clearly argue undue hardship!
The hard one is to determine what the harm to pilots who were bypassed was/is, again could be millions.
As for PAL flying, obviously the argument is we couldn’t staff the flying anyway but I hope an adjudicator would see the effect all the other stuff had on our ability to staff the flying.
All of it adds up to pilots seeing Jazz as an anchor instead of a path to AC, I imagine the proposal that affects AC pilots was some kind of get a number at AC the day you are hired at Jazz, then pilots could stay at Jazz until they wanted to go over instead of ASAP, no one really knows outside of those in the room. Won’t find out for a couple more months at least!

[NSFly]

Jazz was once a career destination. It isn't anymore. They voted to agree to a reduction from 60 to 30% flow to AC, don't be surprised if you are not attractive anymore. Jazz has been used as a stepping stone to get to AC, now with the reduction in flowing pilots, why would someone go to jazz honestly.

What are you suggesting, that we should have kept the 60% flow which wasn’t being honoured and if it was honoured left us even more short of pilots?
Jazz was a career destination over a decade ago, after the introduction of competition proving that AC didn’t need to pay regional pilots as much as they were, since pilots were stepping over one another to work for less, it’s been downhill ever since.
We were well behind the race to the bottom that was happening in the U.S, paid well above them, now we are lagging behind and AC shows no sign of wanting that to change.
They would much rather put a 220 on regional routes and let Jazz shrink as necessary with our inability to staff the left seat.
I don’t know exactly what was proposed to AC and Jazz management, obviously it has an effect on AC pilots as intervenor would not be required otherwise, but the interference was apparently on all fronts.
The MOS7 interference is likely the biggest bill as the pay was rumoured at 42% increase and I can’t help but wonder if the AC/Jazz refusal to address this will have the effect of the CIRB reducing what we are entitled too, imagine back pay for all the time it has taken, who would award a multimillion dollar penalty for all the back pay required, they would clearly argue undue hardship!
The hard one is to determine what the harm to pilots who were bypassed was/is, again could be millions.
As for PAL flying, obviously the argument is we couldn’t staff the flying anyway but I hope an adjudicator would see the effect all the other stuff had on our ability to staff the flying.
All of it adds up to pilots seeing Jazz as an anchor instead of a path to AC, I imagine the proposal that affects AC pilots was some kind of get a number at AC the day you are hired at Jazz, then pilots could stay at Jazz until they wanted to go over instead of ASAP, no one really knows outside of those in the room. Won’t find out for a couple more months at least!

I think the only solution to any of this that makes sense is to give people at Jazz a number and let them stay on their equipment until AC needs them or they want to leave. Personally, I’d be happy to upgrade on an aircraft and routes that I know and then make the jump a few years later, but only if it wasn’t going to jeopardize career efficiency. I think encore did something similar with their captains briefly.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Easiest solution would be AC hires 100% from Jazz
Everyone follows the same order, no more staffing problem, and it would hurt the competition also.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Easiest solution would be AC hires 100% from Jazz
Everyone follows the same order, no more staffing problem, and it would hurt the competition also.

The problem is, you’ve got tons of FOs at Jazz without an ATPL, much less the minimum required time for AC. How’s that going to work?

[NSFly]

Easiest solution would be AC hires 100% from Jazz
Everyone follows the same order, no more staffing problem, and it would hurt the competition also.

The problem is, you’ve got tons of FOs at Jazz without an ATPL, much less the minimum required time for AC. How’s that going to work?

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

[Me262]

Easiest solution would be AC hires 100% from Jazz
Everyone follows the same order, no more staffing problem, and it would hurt the competition also.

The problem is, you’ve got tons of FOs at Jazz without an ATPL, much less the minimum required time for AC. How’s that going to work?

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

And/or TC existing dinosaur age (last ammendeds were from 2004) and credit FO time on certified multi aircrafts as PIC on a 1:5 or even 1:10 ratio. (You need 25hrs PIC night XC, you get it by flying 250hrs night XC as FO. You need 150hrs PIC, you get it from 1500hrs as FO). Unless those 150hrs buring circuits on a C152 is so much more valuable and makes for a more safer Capt when you pass the upgrade standards with Jazz/AC/whatever than flying a jet in YYZ/DCA/LGA for thousand hrs.

[rudder]

The problem is, you’ve got tons of FOs at Jazz without an ATPL, much less the minimum required time for AC. How’s that going to work?

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

And/or TC existing dinosaur age (last ammendeds were from 2004) and credit FO time on certified multi aircrafts as PIC on a 1:5 or even 1:10 ratio. (You need 25hrs PIC night XC, you get it by flying 250hrs night XC as FO. You need 150hrs PIC, you get it from 1500hrs as FO). Unless those 150hrs buring circuits on a C152 is so much more valuable and makes for a more safer Capt when you pass the upgrade standards with Jazz/AC/whatever than flying a jet in YYZ for thousand hrs.

Exactly. Count Part 705 SIC time towards ATPL PIC requirements on a ratio basis. It is not an Airline Transport Captain Licence - it is a pilot licence based on relevant experience.

The question is what has Jazz or ATAC or any other Part 705 carrier done to lobby for this type of licensing change? PICUS is not the answer at a Part 705 carrier. Maybe at 703/704.

[goingnowherefast]

Or, how about paying 705 regional captains a respectable wage.

Go back 20-25 years, correct for inflation. Then adjust that they're not flying 37 or 50 seat, 250kt turboprops anymore. It's a 78 seat jet or fast 350kt turboprop.

Rgional captains should be starting off 200+ grand/yr.

There simply aren't enough pilots today because airlines have taken advantage of the situation since about 2001 to make the career continuously less desirable.

The predicament that Jazz and AC management have made for themselves is entirely of their own making. ACPA certainly facilitated as well. I have 0 sympathy for the management of either airline, and hope they get taken to the cleaners over this.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Easiest solution would be AC hires 100% from Jazz
Everyone follows the same order, no more staffing problem, and it would hurt the competition also.

The problem is, you’ve got tons of FOs at Jazz without an ATPL, much less the minimum required time for AC. How’s that going to work?

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

Picus time is actually a joke. Get some real pic time…

Not fo under supervision of anyone who will take control at the first issue.

If picus means the fo runs the show
From the briefing to calling dispatch to dealing with maintenance, i’ll gladly change my mind..

[truedude]

Or, how about paying 705 regional captains a respectable wage.

Go back 20-25 years, correct for inflation. Then adjust that they're not flying 37 or 50 seat, 250kt turboprops anymore. It's a 78 seat jet or fast 350kt turboprop.

Rgional captains should be starting off 200+ grand/yr.

There simply aren't enough pilots today because airlines have taken advantage of the situation since about 2001 to make the career continuously less desirable.

The predicament that Jazz and AC management have made for themselves is entirely of their own making. ACPA certainly facilitated as well. I have 0 sympathy for the management of either airline, and hope they get taken to the cleaners over this.

Amen to this! They seem to be stuck in the mentality that if they just wait it out, the problem will go away. But it won't, not this time. If you can fly a Kingair making $140,000 on a 4 on 4 off rotation, you arent coming to Jazz to make $70,000. And what people need to understand, is there are a lot of pilots that have zero interest in working for AC. But you have to make Jazz more attractive than working medvacs, and make it a place people can comfortably work long term. But with AC constantly using the burning platform model to negotiate has made people weary of making a big change for a company always under threat.

And givin that WJ is doing the same with Encore, and that both companies gave up marektshare instead of paying pilots appropriate wages, it definitely reeks of collusion. I have never seen either airline in the nearly 30 years they have competed, so willingly give away market share.

Everything is so bizzare. I never once imagined my working conditions and quality of life at work would be worse in a pilot shortage, than it was 15 years ago.

[rudder]

The problem is, you’ve got tons of FOs at Jazz without an ATPL, much less the minimum required time for AC. How’s that going to work?

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

Picus time is actually a joke. Get some real pic time…

Not fo under supervision of anyone who will take control at the first issue.

If picus means the fo runs the show
From the briefing to calling dispatch to dealing with maintenance, i’ll gladly change my mind..

Real PIC time?

According to TC that is flying a C150 at night between airports that are 50-100nm apart. That will get you your ATPL.

TC is trapped in a 1960’s paradigm.

[redbusdriver]

Transport Canada as a whole is a rotten outhouse that needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Lazy and outdated, they are a part of the problem in Canadian aviation.

[NSFly]

The problem is, you’ve got tons of FOs at Jazz without an ATPL, much less the minimum required time for AC. How’s that going to work?

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

Picus time is actually a joke. Get some real pic time…

Not fo under supervision of anyone who will take control at the first issue.

If picus means the fo runs the show
From the briefing to calling dispatch to dealing with maintenance, i’ll gladly change my mind..

Are the FOs you work with not expected to be part of the time all the time? I’m doing this stuff regularly as is, regardless of PICUS

[Me262]

The problem is, you’ve got tons of FOs at Jazz without an ATPL, much less the minimum required time for AC. How’s that going to work?

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

Picus time is actually a joke. Get some real pic time…

Not fo under supervision of anyone who will take control at the first issue.

If picus means the fo runs the show
From the briefing to calling dispatch to dealing with maintenance, i’ll gladly change my mind..

You are right.

RCAF pilots who upgrade from FO to AC with only 5-10hrs total PIC time are not worthy to be called real AC's. Same with EASA pilots who operate in 50x more denser airspance and upgrade with only 70hrs "TRUE" PIC hrs by only flying a A320 out of flight school.

They are all a joke unless one flies the mighty C152 to full 250 PIC hrs. Thank Transport Canada for keeping us safe and not caving in!

[truedude]

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

Picus time is actually a joke. Get some real pic time…

Not fo under supervision of anyone who will take control at the first issue.

If picus means the fo runs the show
From the briefing to calling dispatch to dealing with maintenance, i’ll gladly change my mind..

You are right.

RCAF pilots who upgrade from FO to AC with only 5-10hrs total PIC time are not worthy to be called real AC's. Same with EASA pilots who operate in 50x more denser airspance and upgrade with only 70hrs "TRUE" PIC hrs by only flying a A320 out of flight school.

They are all a joke unless one flies the mighty C152 to full 250 PIC hrs. Thank Transport Canada for keeping us safe and not caving in!

Or pay pilots appropriately instead of trying to staff an airline with poorly paid low time pilots.... just a thought.

[goingnowherefast]

They could start by revamping their PICUS program so it isn't the most restrictive in the country.

Picus time is actually a joke. Get some real pic time…

Not fo under supervision of anyone who will take control at the first issue.

If picus means the fo runs the show
From the briefing to calling dispatch to dealing with maintenance, i’ll gladly change my mind..

You are right.

RCAF pilots who upgrade from FO to AC with only 5-10hrs total PIC time are not worthy to be called real AC's. Same with EASA pilots who operate in 50x more denser airspance and upgrade with only 70hrs "TRUE" PIC hrs by only flying a A320 out of flight school.

They are all a joke unless one flies the mighty C152 to full 250 PIC hrs. Thank Transport Canada for keeping us safe and not caving in!

I'm not a fan of the EASA system either. Sure the TC system sucks, but EASA is at the other end of the spectrum is no good either.

Imagine if this crew made the hard decision: https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/cre ... 74.article.
Things probably would have gone better if they decided to do the exciting action of following the checklist and shut 'er down. Its an A330, not an overloaded Navajo.

RCAF and EASA don't have a large air taxi charter industry. One will learn a lot about themselves and decision making when they're 300nm from anywhere in a King Air and need to make a tough choice. No ACARS, no airplane Wi-Fi. Just bad weather and a sketchy TAF. Go make some tough decisions in a King Air, Navajo or Caravan. By the time you're in a CRJ or A320, life will be easy.

What's Canada's answer? I dunno. What we're doing doesn't work. Copying EASA isn't it either. Gotta go out and learn PDM in a supported environment with fewer than 78 victims in the back along for the learning adventure.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Jazz was once a career destination. It isn't anymore. They voted to agree to a reduction from 60 to 30% flow to AC, don't be surprised if you are not attractive anymore. Jazz has been used as a stepping stone to get to AC, now with the reduction in flowing pilots, why would someone go to jazz honestly.

What are you suggesting, that we should have kept the 60% flow which wasn’t being honoured and if it was honoured left us even more short of pilots?
Jazz was a career destination over a decade ago, after the introduction of competition proving that AC didn’t need to pay regional pilots as much as they were, since pilots were stepping over one another to work for less, it’s been downhill ever since.
We were well behind the race to the bottom that was happening in the U.S, paid well above them, now we are lagging behind and AC shows no sign of wanting that to change.
They would much rather put a 220 on regional routes and let Jazz shrink as necessary with our inability to staff the left seat.
I don’t know exactly what was proposed to AC and Jazz management, obviously it has an effect on AC pilots as intervenor would not be required otherwise, but the interference was apparently on all fronts.
The MOS7 interference is likely the biggest bill as the pay was rumoured at 42% increase and I can’t help but wonder if the AC/Jazz refusal to address this will have the effect of the CIRB reducing what we are entitled too, imagine back pay for all the time it has taken, who would award a multimillion dollar penalty for all the back pay required, they would clearly argue undue hardship!
The hard one is to determine what the harm to pilots who were bypassed was/is, again could be millions.
As for PAL flying, obviously the argument is we couldn’t staff the flying anyway but I hope an adjudicator would see the effect all the other stuff had on our ability to staff the flying.
All of it adds up to pilots seeing Jazz as an anchor instead of a path to AC, I imagine the proposal that affects AC pilots was some kind of get a number at AC the day you are hired at Jazz, then pilots could stay at Jazz until they wanted to go over instead of ASAP, no one really knows outside of those in the room. Won’t find out for a couple more months at least!

We were not ''left behind''

We never signed up, we were confortable under a 17 years agreement.

[cdnavater]

Jazz was once a career destination. It isn't anymore. They voted to agree to a reduction from 60 to 30% flow to AC, don't be surprised if you are not attractive anymore. Jazz has been used as a stepping stone to get to AC, now with the reduction in flowing pilots, why would someone go to jazz honestly.

What are you suggesting, that we should have kept the 60% flow which wasn’t being honoured and if it was honoured left us even more short of pilots?
Jazz was a career destination over a decade ago, after the introduction of competition proving that AC didn’t need to pay regional pilots as much as they were, since pilots were stepping over one another to work for less, it’s been downhill ever since.
We were well behind the race to the bottom that was happening in the U.S, paid well above them, now we are lagging behind and AC shows no sign of wanting that to change.
They would much rather put a 220 on regional routes and let Jazz shrink as necessary with our inability to staff the left seat.
I don’t know exactly what was proposed to AC and Jazz management, obviously it has an effect on AC pilots as intervenor would not be required otherwise, but the interference was apparently on all fronts.
The MOS7 interference is likely the biggest bill as the pay was rumoured at 42% increase and I can’t help but wonder if the AC/Jazz refusal to address this will have the effect of the CIRB reducing what we are entitled too, imagine back pay for all the time it has taken, who would award a multimillion dollar penalty for all the back pay required, they would clearly argue undue hardship!
The hard one is to determine what the harm to pilots who were bypassed was/is, again could be millions.
As for PAL flying, obviously the argument is we couldn’t staff the flying anyway but I hope an adjudicator would see the effect all the other stuff had on our ability to staff the flying.
All of it adds up to pilots seeing Jazz as an anchor instead of a path to AC, I imagine the proposal that affects AC pilots was some kind of get a number at AC the day you are hired at Jazz, then pilots could stay at Jazz until they wanted to go over instead of ASAP, no one really knows outside of those in the room. Won’t find out for a couple more months at least!

We were not ''left behind''

We never signed up, we were confortable under a 17 years agreement.

In the post you quoted, I didn’t say “left behind”, I said we were well behind the race to the bottom, meaning, while US regionals were paying 18k per year for a new hire, we were paying 54k, AC at the time was 56k.
However, I’m going to guess you weren’t around for the lead up to the 17 year deal, which for clarity was a 10 year extension tacked on to a 10 year agreement 3 years in to it. The original 10 year deal was presented at the road shows as required in order to get AC to back off of the plan to reduce Jazz out of existence!
That was their demand, labour stability, the next 10 year add on was to make us competitive with the two companies doing the work cheaper, the union knew full well and said as much that this would make Jazz less desirable. In the end the plan was to compete and get rid of the bottom feeders, then we could be the only regional once again giving us some leverage back. You don’t need the right to strike to have leverage, you need to wait the company out, so that when the mess they made comes home to roost, we can capitalize on it. That is exactly what the union did, they negotiated a sizeable raise, AC stepped in and said no, here we are now.
But, yes, in that context we were left behind, we are still behind inflation adjusted for 2010 wages, hopefully this ULP will make us good on that or get us a lot closer.

[Inverted2]

What are you suggesting, that we should have kept the 60% flow which wasn’t being honoured and if it was honoured left us even more short of pilots?
Jazz was a career destination over a decade ago, after the introduction of competition proving that AC didn’t need to pay regional pilots as much as they were, since pilots were stepping over one another to work for less, it’s been downhill ever since.
We were well behind the race to the bottom that was happening in the U.S, paid well above them, now we are lagging behind and AC shows no sign of wanting that to change.
They would much rather put a 220 on regional routes and let Jazz shrink as necessary with our inability to staff the left seat.
I don’t know exactly what was proposed to AC and Jazz management, obviously it has an effect on AC pilots as intervenor would not be required otherwise, but the interference was apparently on all fronts.
The MOS7 interference is likely the biggest bill as the pay was rumoured at 42% increase and I can’t help but wonder if the AC/Jazz refusal to address this will have the effect of the CIRB reducing what we are entitled too, imagine back pay for all the time it has taken, who would award a multimillion dollar penalty for all the back pay required, they would clearly argue undue hardship!
The hard one is to determine what the harm to pilots who were bypassed was/is, again could be millions.
As for PAL flying, obviously the argument is we couldn’t staff the flying anyway but I hope an adjudicator would see the effect all the other stuff had on our ability to staff the flying.
All of it adds up to pilots seeing Jazz as an anchor instead of a path to AC, I imagine the proposal that affects AC pilots was some kind of get a number at AC the day you are hired at Jazz, then pilots could stay at Jazz until they wanted to go over instead of ASAP, no one really knows outside of those in the room. Won’t find out for a couple more months at least!

We were not ''left behind''

We never signed up, we were confortable under a 17 years agreement.

In the post you quoted, I didn’t say “left behind”, I said we were well behind the race to the bottom, meaning, while US regionals were paying 18k per year for a new hire, we were paying 54k, AC at the time was 56k.
However, I’m going to guess you weren’t around for the lead up to the 17 year deal, which for clarity was a 10 year extension tacked on to a 10 year agreement 3 years in to it. The original 10 year deal was presented at the road shows as required in order to get AC to back off of the plan to reduce Jazz out of existence!
That was their demand, labour stability, the next 10 year add on was to make us competitive with the two companies doing the work cheaper, the union knew full well and said as much that this would make Jazz less desirable. In the end the plan was to compete and get rid of the bottom feeders, then we could be the only regional once again giving us some leverage back. You don’t need the right to strike to have leverage, you need to wait the company out, so that when the mess they made comes home to roost, we can capitalize on it. That is exactly what the union did, they negotiated a sizeable raise, AC stepped in and said no, here we are now.
But, yes, in that context we were left behind, we are still behind inflation adjusted for 2010 wages, hopefully this ULP will make us good on that or get us a lot closer.

Agree 100%. It’s amazing how these retards in management will go so out of their way to quash a competitive wage increase and likely lose $100 million in canceled/reduced flights just to save a couple million in wages.

[GIVCE!]

We are at the point, imo, at which either AC eliminates Jazz as an entity by squeezing it out of existence while slowly accumulating all younger pilots who wish to continue their careers at Mainline and at the expense of loosing the experienced ones to the competition or the old man/woman pastures of retirement. OR AC assimilates Jazz, the pilots and Fa’s in particular, in some agreeable fashion (BOTL, fences, carry ins, immediate hiring AC number upon joining Jazz etc.) in order to acquire and utilize the resource for their expansion. There are only these two options, imo. Jazz as a singular entity, in its current format does no longer function. Period. I would also imagine this is the main negotiation of the ULP suit. Again all in my opinion. In a year or less we will all know the answer. Status quo cannot continue.

[cdnavater]

We are at the point, imo, at which either AC eliminates Jazz as an entity by squeezing it out of existence while slowly accumulating all younger pilots who wish to continue their careers at Mainline and at the expense of loosing the experienced ones to the competition or the old man/woman pastures of retirement. OR AC assimilates Jazz, the pilots and Fa’s in particular, in some agreeable fashion (BOTL, fences, carry ins, immediate hiring AC number upon joining Jazz etc.) in order to acquire and utilize the resource for their expansion. There are only these two options, imo. Jazz as a singular entity, in its current format does no longer function. Period. I would also imagine this is the main negotiation of the ULP suit. Again all in my opinion. In a year or less we will all know the answer. Status quo cannot continue.

I agree with you, it’s an either or situation which is also one of the reasons it’s difficult to attract any experienced pilots to Jazz, the future is a big unknown!
The ULP decision could make Jazz more attractive to AC for purchase, like you say for the human assets, if the pilot wages go to what was rumoured(not really a rumour, confirmed by someone in the know at 42%) they could save a ton of money integrating the operation.
Time will tell!

[NSFly]

We are at the point, imo, at which either AC eliminates Jazz as an entity by squeezing it out of existence while slowly accumulating all younger pilots who wish to continue their careers at Mainline and at the expense of loosing the experienced ones to the competition or the old man/woman pastures of retirement. OR AC assimilates Jazz, the pilots and Fa’s in particular, in some agreeable fashion (BOTL, fences, carry ins, immediate hiring AC number upon joining Jazz etc.) in order to acquire and utilize the resource for their expansion. There are only these two options, imo. Jazz as a singular entity, in its current format does no longer function. Period. I would also imagine this is the main negotiation of the ULP suit. Again all in my opinion. In a year or less we will all know the answer. Status quo cannot continue.

I agree with you, it’s an either or situation which is also one of the reasons it’s difficult to attract any experienced pilots to Jazz, the future is a big unknown!
The ULP decision could make Jazz more attractive to AC for purchase, like you say for the human assets, if the pilot wages go to what was rumoured(not really a rumour, confirmed by someone in the know at 42%) they could save a ton of money integrating the operation.
Time will tell!

42% more than it currently is? Across the board? How credible is that?

[cdnavater]

We are at the point, imo, at which either AC eliminates Jazz as an entity by squeezing it out of existence while slowly accumulating all younger pilots who wish to continue their careers at Mainline and at the expense of loosing the experienced ones to the competition or the old man/woman pastures of retirement. OR AC assimilates Jazz, the pilots and Fa’s in particular, in some agreeable fashion (BOTL, fences, carry ins, immediate hiring AC number upon joining Jazz etc.) in order to acquire and utilize the resource for their expansion. There are only these two options, imo. Jazz as a singular entity, in its current format does no longer function. Period. I would also imagine this is the main negotiation of the ULP suit. Again all in my opinion. In a year or less we will all know the answer. Status quo cannot continue.

I agree with you, it’s an either or situation which is also one of the reasons it’s difficult to attract any experienced pilots to Jazz, the future is a big unknown!
The ULP decision could make Jazz more attractive to AC for purchase, like you say for the human assets, if the pilot wages go to what was rumoured(not really a rumour, confirmed by someone in the know at 42%) they could save a ton of money integrating the operation.
Time will tell!

42% more than it currently is? Across the board? How credible is that?

No, 42% was the original negotiated increase, we ended up with 25ish to 40%, 40% year 1 and 2 I believe, then 25 at the top.
I calculated the 42% increase back when this all went down and I’d be at 233/hr now instead of the 193 I’m at.

Edit;
Just went back and looked, top Captain increase was just over 17% plus the company paying the benefits, big difference from what I was told, 42% across the board.
Anyhow, hoping for the best, planning for typical AC.