Flow timeline after new fleet orders?

[Meow121.5]

With the recent 737/787 orders, do you think the flow from Encore to mainline could speed up, or will it stay the same?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/calgary/article/ ... ewal-plan/

[Vsquared]

Highly doubt it. Flow numbers are based on Encore captains on property. From what I've heard mainline is overstaffed right now anyway.

[safetyfirst123]

Mainline is not overstaffed. If they were, pilots would have much cushier schedules, double time wouldn't be offered for overtime, and reserves wouldn't be called all the time.

[cdnavater]

Mainline is not overstaffed. If they were, pilots would have much cushier schedules, double time wouldn't be offered for overtime, and reserves wouldn't be called all the time.

Was the recent bid not to balance the bases, reduction out east, followed by vacancies out west?
I ask because by appearances they were over staffed in Eastern bases and maybe your comment about double time etc… is based on Western bases.

[Hysteria]

Mainline is not overstaffed. If they were, pilots would have much cushier schedules, double time wouldn't be offered for overtime, and reserves wouldn't be called all the time.

Was the recent bid not to balance the bases, reduction out east, followed by vacancies out west?
I ask because by appearances they were over staffed in Eastern bases and maybe your comment about double time etc… is based on Western bases.

That’s actually a good point. I was wondering this too. Guys I know out west work big blocks etc. don’t know any out east.

[safetyfirst123]

Out east pilots are also working full blocks in the mid 80's from anecdotal evidence asking around. Double time for overtime has been offered for many Toronto based pairings lately. It is evident that this rebalancing was to knock junior Sunwing captains from their seats to allow Westjet FO's to bid for left seat.

[ant_321]

Out east pilots are also working full blocks in the mid 80's from anecdotal evidence asking around. Double time for overtime has been offered for many Toronto based pairings lately. It is evident that this rebalancing was to knock junior Sunwing captains from their seats to allow Westjet FO's to bid for left seat.

NO way! There’s no way that’s what’s going on! A union rep told me so!

I have been called in 14 of my last 15 reserve days. Double time being offered almost every day. Montreal pilots doing multi day pairings of turns out of YYZ. But we’re overstaffed in YYZ!

[Canadaflyer46]

Out east pilots are also working full blocks in the mid 80's from anecdotal evidence asking around. Double time for overtime has been offered for many Toronto based pairings lately. It is evident that this rebalancing was to knock junior Sunwing captains from their seats to allow Westjet FO's to bid for left seat.

WestJet controls the PSB, not ALPA. Why would the company give two shits if it’s a Sunwing or a WJ guy in the left seat? If anything it is far cheaper to keep the Sunwing guy in the left seat versus paying a top-scale FO to go through upgrade training.

[safetyfirst123]

Out east pilots are also working full blocks in the mid 80's from anecdotal evidence asking around. Double time for overtime has been offered for many Toronto based pairings lately. It is evident that this rebalancing was to knock junior Sunwing captains from their seats to allow Westjet FO's to bid for left seat.

WestJet controls the PSB, not ALPA. Why would the company give two shits if it’s a Sunwing or a WJ guy in the left seat? If anything it is far cheaper to keep the Sunwing guy in the left seat versus paying a top-scale FO to go through upgrade training.

And that's exactly why it's so strange. But despite denying that's what's happening, there are a lot of references by all sides that this bid was to correct the seniority issue with who holds the left seat. YVR FO's were promised last year that they'd get left seat upgrades once the merger was completed.

Yes the company controls the PSB. Yes it costs the company to downgrade Sunwing captains and upgrade other FO's to captain. But also yes that YYZ and YUL pilots are flying a lot, getting called all the time on reserve, getting double time offered for overtime, and with Sunwing flying being added for the winter, there will be a heck of a lot more eastern flying. And yet, YYZ needs to be reduced.

Something stinks.

[cdnavater]

Out east pilots are also working full blocks in the mid 80's from anecdotal evidence asking around. Double time for overtime has been offered for many Toronto based pairings lately. It is evident that this rebalancing was to knock junior Sunwing captains from their seats to allow Westjet FO's to bid for left seat.

WestJet controls the PSB, not ALPA. Why would the company give two shits if it’s a Sunwing or a WJ guy in the left seat? If anything it is far cheaper to keep the Sunwing guy in the left seat versus paying a top-scale FO to go through upgrade training.

And that's exactly why it's so strange. But despite denying that's what's happening, there are a lot of references by all sides that this bid was to correct the seniority issue with who holds the left seat. YVR FO's were promised last year that they'd get left seat upgrades once the merger was completed.

Yes the company controls the PSB. Yes it costs the company to downgrade Sunwing captains and upgrade other FO's to captain. But also yes that YYZ and YUL pilots are flying a lot, getting called all the time on reserve, getting double time offered for overtime, and with Sunwing flying being added for the winter, there will be a heck of a lot more eastern flying. And yet, YYZ needs to be reduced.

Something stinks.

You’ll have to see how that goes, coming up on a shoulder season and the reduction of domestic flying will occur with an increase in North/South vacation flying. The bid typically looks out several months and sometimes there is short term pain for the longer outlook.

[JBI]

Mainline is not overstaffed. If they were, pilots would have much cushier schedules, double time wouldn't be offered for overtime, and reserves wouldn't be called all the time.

You'll find that WJ has very different definitions of what it means to be overstaffed or understaffed and the degrees thereof than basically any other entity in aviation.

Right as COVID was winding down with demand increasing, the operations were falling apart and we were "right sized" but had "higher than normal" absenteeism" ... during a pandemic

Encore's YYZ base, prior to shutting down, had 60 less Captains than they should have and had a multi page pdf of Open Time pairings each day and they were "about 10 Captains short because some FOs were delaying upgrades"

Management absolutely thinks we're overstaffed at the moment, though they do expect hiring to resume. In other people's minds, including mine and yours, it doesn't seem like we're overstaffed. But, neither you nor I make the staffing decisions - the Company does.

While the Company's staffing plans may not make sense to you or I, it doesn't make it some sort of conspiracy.

[safetyfirst123]

Mainline is not overstaffed. If they were, pilots would have much cushier schedules, double time wouldn't be offered for overtime, and reserves wouldn't be called all the time.

You'll find that WJ has very different definitions of what it means to be overstaffed or understaffed and the degrees thereof than basically any other entity in aviation.

Right as COVID was winding down with demand increasing, the operations were falling apart and we were "right sized" but had "higher than normal" absenteeism" ... during a pandemic

Encore's YYZ base, prior to shutting down, had 60 less Captains than they should have and had a multi page pdf of Open Time pairings each day and they were "about 10 Captains short because some FOs were delaying upgrades"

Management absolutely thinks we're overstaffed at the moment, though they do expect hiring to resume. In other people's minds, including mine and yours, it doesn't seem like we're overstaffed. But, neither you nor I make the staffing decisions - the Company does.

While the Company's staffing plans may not make sense to you or I, it doesn't make it some sort of conspiracy.

It's always a pleasure reading your replies JBI, and I mean that sincerely. I still think something stinks

Let's see what the pairings look like for the winter and next summer, and if a new bid will come out sooner than later with vacancies in YYZ. Westjet sure works in mysterious ways

[JBI]

It's always a pleasure reading your replies JBI, and I mean that sincerely. I still think something stinks

Let's see what the pairings look like for the winter and next summer, and if a new bid will come out sooner than later with vacancies in YYZ. Westjet sure works in mysterious ways

lol appreciate that I'm not saying things smell great, but just that I don't think it's a conspiracy, per se.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my job and the vast majority of the people I work with, but yes, WestJet does indeed work in mysterious ways!

[GetAGripen]

Nah. 400 pilots, likely best case scenario probably 40 a year flow. Encore doesn't have enough planes to staff for maximum flow allowance even if there was enough vacancies at mainline. If you wait around for flow you'll be there forever.

[PittBoss]

With the recent 737/787 orders, do you think the flow from Encore to mainline could speed up, or will it stay the same?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/calgary/article/ ... ewal-plan/

Hahahaha

No Flow thanks