Westjet 737 Gear collapse in SXM today

[Stu Pidasso]

It is a completely fair criticism that the RT work here is very poor, including the Tower Controller. We have plenty of Pilots from "la belle province" who's English language skills are well below acceptable.

Don't say that in polite company.

[cdnavater]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.7629849
“Fixing a plane on the small and isolated island located approximately 300 kilometres east of Puerto Rico may prove to be a "difficult project," said Keith Mackey, an aviation expert and former pilot.

"There's not much material or talent down there to do it, so everything would have to be brought in probably from Canada, the parts and everything else," Mackey said.

"So they'll have to make a careful determination as to the extent of the damage versus what is going to be cost-effective."

[AV80R]

Just pull a barge up to the beach and roll the plane onto it.

[ex-NWT]

I can't even understand the Westjet pilot when he speaks. Is there an English proficiency issues with some of their pilots?

Same here. I listened to it several times. Whatever he was trying to communicate, it was not coming through. Fortunately the situation wasn't worse

[confusedalot]

sooo........

the gear collapse has everything to do with language issues?

fully bilingual guy born in montreal here. mostly english.

suppose if turkish airlines had a collapse, it is because of language. no, I am not turkish,

there are jobs open at the TSB from time to time. suggest you apply for one of those.

[Donald]

sooo........

the gear collapse has everything to do with language issues?

fully bilingual guy born in montreal here. mostly english.

If that's what you understood from this thread, perhaps your English comprehension isn't as good as you think it is.

[pelmet]

It is a completely fair criticism that the RT work here is very poor, including the Tower Controller. We have plenty of Pilots from "la belle province" who's English language skills are well below acceptable.

Don't say that in polite company.

Same here. I listened to it several times. Whatever he was trying to communicate, it was not coming through. Fortunately the situation wasn't worse

But wait a minute guys, there are dip sh-ts out there telling us to STFU about it or making accusations of being a sh-t disturber.

Even on PPrune, there are people questioning the R/T...



ETOPS
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Pretty painful listening to the R/T - tower controller didn’t notice what had happened so blithely gave backtrack instructions. The reply from the crew was basically unintelligible and took her by surprise prompting a question and answer session eventually leading to a request for assistance

Whatever happened to MAYDAY or even “ declaring an emergency”?

All that being said, after seeing more ATC recording, it appears that the pilot talking to ATC is understandable much of the rest of the time, although not all the time. I would suggest talking noticeably slower, louder, and in a more deliberate manner whenever in such a situation. If you think about this in advance and practice in the sim, it will possibly help in a real situation.

We had a Swedish instructor at the company who would do this and sound like he was totally bored as he declared an emergency for a very serious situation in the sim.

Remember that saying about “slow dow, don’t speed up” in an emergency. That goes for R/T as well.

[RoAF-Mig21]

It's funny when "Canadian/American" pilots complain about English proficiency, when they're the most undisciplined communicators in the sky, opting to use their own phrases instead of ICAO standard phraseology.

I guess you haven't flown much outside N America.

I would rate India as the most undisciplined communicators.

Then there are the countries where ATC is done in one of the 5 other ICAO approved ATC languages. English language services must be available as well but the level of 'English' varies.

Then there are countries where they do ATC in the local language which is not one of the 6 ICAO approved languages for ATC.

Then there are the countries with no ATC where you use TIBA procedures (yes - I'm not making that up!).


Finally - just to add to the "Mayday" call discussion.

You can downgrade from "Mayday" if things change - it's not an irreversible action.

In the RTO scenario - declaring "Mayday" evaluating and then downgrading as required is a perfectly acceptable course of action.


The runway in SXM is open again - looks like a good job moving the 737 off the runway.

I have not flown to India or Asia. I only fly (professionally) in Canada/USA but I do fly in Europe (single engine pistons, with friends), when I go on vacation. I've also flown in Australia / Cook Islands.

[AV80R]

What is the proper phraseology to downgrade from a Mayday?

[cdnavater]

What is the proper phraseology to downgrade from a Mayday?

Found this, don’t remember this from 35 years ago when I took the test.

https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/spectr ... on-sf09802

6.18 Cancellation of Distress
When a station is no longer in distress, or when it is no longer necessary to observe radio silence (i.e. the rescue operation has concluded), the station that controlled the distress traffic shall transmit a message addressed to "ALL STATIONS" on the distress frequency(ies) used, advising that normal working may resume. The proper procedure for cancelling a distress message is:

the distress signal "MAYDAY" (once);
the words "HELLO ALL STATIONS" (three times);
the words "THIS IS";
the call sign of the station transmitting the message;
the filing time of the message;
the call sign of the station in distress (once);
the words "SEELONCE FEENEE"
Example:
MAYDAY
HELLO ALL STATIONS, HELLO ALL STATIONS, HELLO ALL STATIONS
THIS IS
WINNIPEG TOWER
TIME 1630 ZULU
PIPER FOXTROT X-RAY QUEBEC QUEBEC
SEELONCE FEENEE
OUT

Note: The procedure outlined above is mainly for the benefit of other stations so they can resume regular service. To ensure that search and rescue stations are advised that a station is no longer in distress, a normal call to the nearest aeronautical station detailing the reasons for cancelling the distress call MUST be made.

[nohojob]

What is the proper phraseology to downgrade from a Mayday?

Found this, don’t remember this from 35 years ago when I took the test.

https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/spectr ... on-sf09802

6.18 Cancellation of Distress
When a station is no longer in distress, or when it is no longer necessary to observe radio silence (i.e. the rescue operation has concluded), the station that controlled the distress traffic shall transmit a message addressed to "ALL STATIONS" on the distress frequency(ies) used, advising that normal working may resume. The proper procedure for cancelling a distress message is:

the distress signal "MAYDAY" (once);
the words "HELLO ALL STATIONS" (three times);
the words "THIS IS";
the call sign of the station transmitting the message;
the filing time of the message;
the call sign of the station in distress (once);
the words "SEELONCE FEENEE"
Example:
MAYDAY
HELLO ALL STATIONS, HELLO ALL STATIONS, HELLO ALL STATIONS
THIS IS
WINNIPEG TOWER
TIME 1630 ZULU
PIPER FOXTROT X-RAY QUEBEC QUEBEC
SEELONCE FEENEE
OUT

Note: The procedure outlined above is mainly for the benefit of other stations so they can resume regular service. To ensure that search and rescue stations are advised that a station is no longer in distress, a normal call to the nearest aeronautical station detailing the reasons for cancelling the distress call MUST be made.

For those who are concerned by French pilots English, note that there is a lot of French in the above example !!!

[AV80R]

Imagine saying hello and seelonce feenee on Haneda tower. They'd be like WTF.

[Eric Janson]

What is the proper phraseology to downgrade from a Mayday?

"Cancel Mayday"

"Cancel Mayday - Operations normal"

Keep it simple - jmho.

[co-joe]

...
Crash/Fire Rescue(CFR) isn't a WestJetism, it is an ICAO term.

...

CFR is the old term, it's now called ARFF and has been for a good 10 years, at least in Canada.

[pelmet]

...
Crash/Fire Rescue(CFR) isn't a WestJetism, it is an ICAO term.

...

CFR is the old term, it's now called ARFF and has been for a good 10 years, at least in Canada.

If correct, then I would say he used an outdated term.

[cdnavater]

...
Crash/Fire Rescue(CFR) isn't a WestJetism, it is an ICAO term.

...

CFR is the old term, it's now called ARFF and has been for a good 10 years, at least in Canada.

Still CFR in our AOM

[goldeneagle]

So has it been determined yet the fate of the airframe ? Is a crew down there fixing it, or is it headed to the pop can factory ?

[planenuts]

So has it been determined yet the fate of the airframe ? Is a crew down there fixing it, or is it headed to the pop can factory ?

A Cargojet 757 just dropped off the first of what they need. They have started repairs and are guessing about 10 weeks or so.

[goingnowherefast]

Cargojet? Doesn't WJ have their own fleet of 737 freighter?

[planenuts]

Cargojet? Doesn't WJ have their own fleet of 737 freighter?

No. That ended a while ago.

[Bede]

Cargojet? Doesn't WJ have their own fleet of 737 freighter?

No. That ended a while ago.

Not true. I'm flying a BCF pairing right now.

[planenuts]

Cargojet? Doesn't WJ have their own fleet of 737 freighter?

No. That ended a while ago.

Not true. I'm flying a BCF pairing right now.

Ok sorry. Technically yes we have a freighter....but I hardly call an openly cancelled (radically changed) program and 1 plane a "fleet" of freighters.

[confusedalot]

sooo........

the gear collapse has everything to do with language issues?

fully bilingual guy born in montreal here. mostly english.

If that's what you understood from this thread, perhaps your English comprehension isn't as good as you think it is.

ya got dat wrong. big time

[boeingboy]

Some basic info was released from the TSB...

Work completed as of October 2025

1) The initial review of the flight data recorder data indicates that this was not a hard landing event.

2) During the aircraft examination, the right gear aft trunnion pin was found fractured. The two portions of the aft trunnion pin were sent to the TSB Engineering Laboratory in Ottawa, Ontario, and are awaiting further examination.

3) The right main landing gear was overhauled in 2016.

4) The evacuation was a planned evacuation and was conducted on the left side of the aircraft. There was one reported minor injury sustained during the evacuation. No injuries were reported due to the gear collapse.

5) The TSB is reviewing previous occurrences involving aft trunnion pin fractures on Boeing 737 aircraft.

[jpilot77]

http://smn-news.com/index.php/st-maart ... arten.html

So the TSB is saying not a hard landing. Looks like a broken part that failed.