Emirates after AC

[digits_]

Do you really need the data? A median salary in the 90s would afford you a detached house and a couple cars in the driveway. Now you'd need at least $350k/year to afford that.

There's life outside Toronto and Vancouver you know. It's not just related to salary in the 90s, but also to population density.

[cdnavater]

Do you really need the data? A median salary in the 90s would afford you a detached house and a couple cars in the driveway. Now you'd need at least $350k/year to afford that.

I’m not sure where you came up with that, I just bought a house in BC and have two newer vehicles in the driveway, a few toys and I’m saving quite a bit every month on a little over 200k
If you need 350k for that, you’re doing something wrong,

[Man_in_the_sky]

Do you really need the data? A median salary in the 90s would afford you a detached house and a couple cars in the driveway. Now you'd need at least $350k/year to afford that.

I’m not sure where you came up with that, I just bought a house in BC and have two newer vehicles in the driveway, a few toys and I’m saving quite a bit every month on a little over 200k
If you need 350k for that, you’re doing something wrong,

Pilots are known to not be the best people for budget...

flew with some guys complaining about their child's tuition that was 3-4k a year when i know it's about 2 day of overtime in a year to cover that... pilots :p

[Bede]

Do you really need the data? A median salary in the 90s would afford you a detached house and a couple cars in the driveway. Now you'd need at least $350k/year to afford that.

Yes we need the data. Because make believe to prove a point isn't cool.

[twa22]

Do you really need the data? A median salary in the 90s would afford you a detached house and a couple cars in the driveway. Now you'd need at least $350k/year to afford that.

Yes we need the data. Because make believe to prove a point isn't cool.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/ ... ld-series/

"And though the general costs of living have soared, average incomes in Ontario have not risen at the same pace. In 1993, the average income in the province was $48,000 (roughly $90,000 when adjusting for inflation) and 30 years later, Statistics Canada says its about $60,800."

" A CivicAction report, published in June, noted that with Toronto’s annual median income at $100,400, the price-to-income ratio for housing is 11.8 times higher than that income, meaning homebuyers with that income would need to dedicate 76.9 per cent of their salary toward mortgage payments on an average priced home in the city.

Whitzman said it has become a lot harder for low-to-middle class households to afford a place to live in Toronto.

“It’s a really different landscape and in that particular way, things have gone downhill since the last time that Toronto was in the World Series,” Whitzman said. "

Honestly, how blind are some of you?

[Tbayer2021]

Do you really need the data? A median salary in the 90s would afford you a detached house and a couple cars in the driveway. Now you'd need at least $350k/year to afford that.

Yes we need the data. Because make believe to prove a point isn't cool.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/ ... ld-series/

"And though the general costs of living have soared, average incomes in Ontario have not risen at the same pace. In 1993, the average income in the province was $48,000 (roughly $90,000 when adjusting for inflation) and 30 years later, Statistics Canada says its about $60,800."

" A CivicAction report, published in June, noted that with Toronto’s annual median income at $100,400, the price-to-income ratio for housing is 11.8 times higher than that income, meaning homebuyers with that income would need to dedicate 76.9 per cent of their salary toward mortgage payments on an average priced home in the city.

Whitzman said it has become a lot harder for low-to-middle class households to afford a place to live in Toronto.

“It’s a really different landscape and in that particular way, things have gone downhill since the last time that Toronto was in the World Series,” Whitzman said. "

Honestly, how blind are some of you?

I don't know if they're blind or intentionally obtuse. But I've lost count of the number of senior pilots talking about how they only got paid 50K a year when they started at the airlines. They'll look at you straight on the face while saying it. Conveniently ignoring the fact that you could purchase a home in Toronto proper for 200K-300K back then. Even less if you moved 1 hour out.

Just look at cdnavater's comment talking about how he just bought a house on 200K/y in BC. I'd wager he's conveniently leaving out the fact that he was already on the property ladder and has been on it for a long time. Somehow not realizing that rolling the equity from the old place into the new one is not the same as buying your first home while making 200k.

[cdnavater]

Yes we need the data. Because make believe to prove a point isn't cool.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/ ... ld-series/

"And though the general costs of living have soared, average incomes in Ontario have not risen at the same pace. In 1993, the average income in the province was $48,000 (roughly $90,000 when adjusting for inflation) and 30 years later, Statistics Canada says its about $60,800."

" A CivicAction report, published in June, noted that with Toronto’s annual median income at $100,400, the price-to-income ratio for housing is 11.8 times higher than that income, meaning homebuyers with that income would need to dedicate 76.9 per cent of their salary toward mortgage payments on an average priced home in the city.

Whitzman said it has become a lot harder for low-to-middle class households to afford a place to live in Toronto.

“It’s a really different landscape and in that particular way, things have gone downhill since the last time that Toronto was in the World Series,” Whitzman said. "

Honestly, how blind are some of you?

I don't know if they're blind or intentionally obtuse. But I've lost count of the number of senior pilots talking about how they only got paid 50K a year when they started at the airlines. They'll look at you straight on the face while saying it. Conveniently ignoring the fact that you could purchase a home in Toronto proper for 200K-300K back then. Even less if you moved 1 hour out.

Just look at cdnavater's comment talking about how he just bought a house on 200K/y in BC. I'd wager he's conveniently leaving out the fact that he was already on the property ladder and has been on it for a long time. Somehow not realizing that rolling the equity from the old place into the new one is not the same as buying your first home while making 200k.

Yes, I’ve been on the property ladder but contrary to what has been posted here, I did not buy my first house for 50k and sell it for 1.2 mil!
I’ve made some on each place, before this house, I made 30% after renovating it and interest on the mortgage.
I took the equity and paid off some higher interest debt and put down the 20% required, so, I have a mortgage like the most of the rest of the country.
I’m not great with money, my wife doesn’t work, I spend a lot of my disposable income but I still am able to pay a mortgage, I have a 3 year old fully loaded truck, a 4 year old fully loaded SUV, a 50k SxS ATV, a boat. I enjoy eating out at restaurants several times per month, still have a few thousand extra in my account at the end of every month.
My point stands, you do not need 350k to have a house and two new vehicles in the driveway!

[Bede]

Do you really need the data? A median salary in the 90s would afford you a detached house and a couple cars in the driveway. Now you'd need at least $350k/year to afford that.

Yes we need the data. Because make believe to prove a point isn't cool.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/ ... ld-series/

"And though the general costs of living have soared, average incomes in Ontario have not risen at the same pace. In 1993, the average income in the province was $48,000 (roughly $90,000 when adjusting for inflation) and 30 years later, Statistics Canada says its about $60,800."

" A CivicAction report, published in June, noted that with Toronto’s annual median income at $100,400, the price-to-income ratio for housing is 11.8 times higher than that income, meaning homebuyers with that income would need to dedicate 76.9 per cent of their salary toward mortgage payments on an average priced home in the city.

Whitzman said it has become a lot harder for low-to-middle class households to afford a place to live in Toronto.

“It’s a really different landscape and in that particular way, things have gone downhill since the last time that Toronto was in the World Series,” Whitzman said. "

Honestly, how blind are some of you?

We all agree that housing prices have far outstripped wage growth over the past few decades. That's not in dispute. But exaggerating the situation doesn't help.

The average cost of a house in Toronto in 1993 was $206k. Mortgage payments on that house (at 8.8% interest) used 38% of the $48k median income. To afford the average house in Toronto using 38% of income for mortgage payments would require an income of $142k. Definitely more than the median income, but a far cry from $350k.

Keep in mind that the average house is 19% larger now than in 1993, so adjusting for that , were looking at an income of $116k to have a similar lifestyle as in 1993.

With vehicles it's similar: slightly outpace inflation, but the effect disappears when you account for the fact that vehicles have gotten larger and more luxurious. A civic costs no more in real dollars than it did in 1993.

[Daniel Cooper]

The average cost of a house in Toronto in 1993 was $206k. Mortgage payments on that house (at 8.8% interest) used 38% of the $48k median income. To afford the average house in Toronto using 38% of income for mortgage payments would require an income of $142k. Definitely more than the median income, but a far cry from $350k.

38% of $142k per year would be $4500 per month which would get you a $900k house. The average house price in Toronto is $1.4M.

[Dry Guy]

Mortgage payments for a $1.4 million house would be $6879 and require $217000 take home pay for that same 38%. Or a little over $380000 gross salary.

[Bede]

The average house price in Toronto is $1.4M.

No it's not.

https://creastats.crea.ca/mls/treb-median-price

[twa22]

The average house price in Toronto is $1.4M.

No it's not.

https://creastats.crea.ca/mls/treb-median-price

oh sorry it's only at 1.17M, not 1.4M

Bede, just give up, I don't know what point you're trying to make, your arguments are senseless... A 2025 civic is almost double the MSRP of it's 1993 counterpart with zero justification. Yes it's bigger, no body asked for that, yes it's got a lot more basic features and creature comforts, again, nobody asked for that.... As a consumer, I am forced into spending this money on luxuries which I either don't want, or don't need, but I have no choice. You do realize in other nations around the world, you can still buy a new car without AC right?

[altiplano]

Can't afford to buy a detached house in Toronto? Get a semi or a townhouse or a condo.

Or move to Guelph or Hamilton or somewhere that it's significantly cheaper.

Population in Toronto is double what it was 30 years ago. Demand drives price. They aren't making more land in the city...

[Bede]

I don't know what point you're trying to make, your arguments are senseless...

Just providing context to show that you don't need to earn $350k/year to have the same lifestyle as the median income in 1993.

A 2025 civic is almost double the MSRP of it's 1993 counterpart with zero justification.

Indeed it is. That's called inflation. You will also notice that the median income is double what it was in 1993.

[jpilot77]

The average house price in Toronto is $1.4M.

No it's not.

https://creastats.crea.ca/mls/treb-median-price

oh sorry it's only at 1.17M, not 1.4M

Bede, just give up, I don't know what point you're trying to make, your arguments are senseless... A 2025 civic is almost double the MSRP of it's 1993 counterpart with zero justification. Yes it's bigger, no body asked for that, yes it's got a lot more basic features and creature comforts, again, nobody asked for that.... As a consumer, I am forced into spending this money on luxuries which I either don't want, or don't need, but I have no choice. You do realize in other nations around the world, you can still buy a new car without AC right?

A lot of the new features on the civic (and all cars) are mandated by governments. I.e. airbags, anti-lock brakes, stability control and traction control, backup cameras etc. Now these aren’t really comfort features and in other jurisdictions are options as opposed to mandatory.

[altiplano]

A lot of those regulatory requirements are protectionist for the NA auto industry and not found overseas also. Makes you wonder what we're protecting...

Lots of bullshit expensive "features" too.

Look at how much a Toyota Tacoma is these days. Meanwhile a Hilux with a diesel engine that is sold virtually all around the world except in Canada/US is 1/2 the price.

[thepoors]

Canadian consumers are passive suckers. We will suck it up and pay higher prices for goods and services for no reason. Collectively, we are a spineless bunch and refuse to hold anyone accountable for ripping us off. Our politicians are in the pockets of corporations, and have given them free reign to exploit us because they know we will just sit and take it.

Loblaws was fixing the price of bread for two decades. When they got busted they got a slap on the wrist, tossed us a couple of measly gift cards, and continued about their business.

The Bell/Rogers duopoly means we pay the highest prices in the world for Internet and cell service. And they have been repeatedly shielded from foreign competition by the government.

We pay the highest domestic airfare prices in the world.

We pay higher fuel prices than the US even though we are a massively oil rich country.

I could go on...

[Bede]

,^ agreed.

The one that gets me is the Ontario vehicle safety regime. How many accidents are caused by private vehicles having too much rust on them? None. Yet it's nearly impossible to get a used vehicle safetied anymore. What this does is force people to buy new driving up the price of all vehicles. Complete scam.

[MorePlates]

This thread is killing me

This right here is exactly why pilots in this country will never get a World Class Contract, keep on dreaming boys.

[Jean-Pierre]

This thread is killing me

This right here is exactly why pilots in this country will never get a World Class Contract, keep on dreaming boys.

It disturb me. Even at 1.17 Million you need over $300,000 salary to buy a average house in Toronto. And that's only mortgage payments at 38% of take home. There are a lot of expense above that.

[MorePlates]

It disturb me. Even at 1.17 Million you need over $300,000 salary to buy a average house in Toronto. And that's only mortgage payments at 38% of take home. There are a lot of expense above that.

How dare you complain? We have a World Class Contract!

So what if you can’t afford your mortgage? Can’t live in Toronto? Move to Mississauga. Oh, can’t afford that either? Then there’s always Kitchener, or better yet, London. The view is great, the commute only two hours, and think of all the podcasts you’ll catch up on.

Can’t afford a car? Buy a 20 year old shitbox. And please, start thinking about the company for once. How can you justify wanting to go out three times a week when you could stay home and enjoy ramen instead?

Who told you to have three kids anyway? The fertility rate’s almost down to one, follow the trend! Have one child, and watch the “luxury” you can suddenly afford.

But above all else, never question your wages. We are the best. Top of the industry, world class, remember? Just keep smiling, keep working, and keep pretending that “competitive pay” means what it used to.

[Bede]

Did my CPAER last month, used Pilottraining & TheWisePilot, scored 98.

Go for it, it's worth the $30.

Big mouth for a guy who did his cpl last year

[MorePlates]

Big mouth for a guy who did his cpl last year

Let’s say I got my CPL just yesterday Bede, so what? Is anything I said wrong? If it is, point it out instead of hiding behind your seniority.

Funny how a senior AC pilot has time to be biased and petty on a forum instead of just enjoying his little airplane.

[Tanker299]

,^ agreed.

The one that gets me is the Ontario vehicle safety regime. How many accidents are caused by private vehicles having too much rust on them? None. Yet it's nearly impossible to get a used vehicle safetied anymore. What this does is force people to buy new driving up the price of all vehicles. Complete scam.

There is a work around for this, a huge pain in the ass however. Before your car gets too old (or you do it when you buy it) you make it part of a numbered company. Sell the company not the car. No safety required….

[Stu Pidasso]

Always makes me laugh how many people complaining about the cost of housing in Toronto and Vancouver, voted Liberal.